Will this film be 'redemption' for George Lucas?

Actually, I enjoy Star Wars because it has both simplicity and complexity - the dastardly scheming of Palpatine, so complex that it takes 9 years and three movies to tell. The complex fall and redemption of Anakin Skywalker, a story told wonderfully over 6 films, each an important piece of the story. But I also enjoy it for cool action sequences, over the top villains, and cartoony heroes. The wild space battles and the swashbuckling lightsaber duels. It has both raw action movie fun and complex mythical appeal.

My main beef isn't really PT specific...it is more film specific. With both ROTJ and TPM Lucas seemed to cater a little too directly to small children with Ewoks and Gungans. It was too much, and distracted from otherwise good work. If you take Jar-Jar out of TPM, I will bet that the entire bash syndrome we've been living for 6 years never would have happened. Sure, the films would have garnered mixed support, but I think Jar-Jar became the lightning rod and an easy target. People still would have called out the wooden acting and confusing story and overuse of special effects, but I think it was really Jar-Jar and Poodoo that angered the Star Wars Generation, those who grew up with it. Without him, I think the bitter vitriol would have been replaced by mixed feelings, but a generally more positive vibe. People may have disliked the film, but I don't think they would have hated the film like so many do.

I had this specific conversation with my girlfriend this weekend. She flat out feels that Jar-Jar is the single reason she doesn't love the PT. And I think she is a good example of the 'average' Star Wars fan - loved the OT, but is only lukewarm on the PT. Many people would have been willing to accept the flaws of TPM, but Jar-Jar singlehandedly drove them over the edge.

 

Snap, a movie isn't necessarily intellectual because it's confusing.

TPM is neither intellectual nor confusing.

!snap

 

Considering most average fans don't realize that Palpatine is Sidious, I think it's hard to fault Lucas for most of the plot problems.

 

Yeah, but the question is - did he want them to know about Pals, or not? I personally can't tell. I think the close-up at Qui-Gon's funeral was a giveaway, but maybe too subtle for some to pickup. I still don't know if Lucas wanted to keep it a surprise for ROTS or have the audience clued in.

I've asked several 'average' fans, though, and they all know he is one and the same.

 

Wait, average people don't know that Palpatine is Sidious? For real? That's a little sad.

 

I am by no means a Jar Jar fanatic, but I enjoy the irony of his role in the downfall of the Republic. Palpatine really has it figured it out, down to the lower case "j".

 

If a film doesn't challenge me intellectually there is almost no chance I will enjoy it.

That's exactly why TPM was a letdown for me. AOTC was better in that regard.

 

ok snap - now you've done it...

diet pepsi or diet coke?

NEITHER.

!snap

 

Wait, average people don't know that Palpatine is Sidious? For real? That's a little sad.

Quite sad indeed.

!snap

 

"If a film doesn't challenge me intellectually there is almost no chance I will enjoy it."

No feel for movie magic? I love imaginative movies that are full of creative ideas and TPM clearly is such a movie.

 

No feel for movie magic? I love imaginative movies that are full of creative ideas and TPM clearly is such a movie.

I have no idea what you're getting at here. I'm argueing for TPM.

!snap

 

I like intellectually challenging ones (which is where my love for CSI comes from) but I also sacrifice that for something that's just plain fun {(Dodgeball,Ferris Bueller,etc.)

 

According to the early reviews (Time, rottentomato.com, etc...) ROTS is GL's redemption. As of today, out of 16 reviews, only 2 are negative. These 2 negative reviews are more than balanced by some blurbs (I won't read the whole reviews until I see the movie) that go above and beyond the "glowing" reviews for TPM and ATOC. Those movies were never called "...one of the greatest movies ever made...classic is not a kind enough word..." or, "...energetic and character driven..." or even, "An unexpectedly sweet pleasure...a dark and gripping slice of space opera..." I'm King of the Gusher (self-proclaimed), but even I would not call either PT movie "gripping," or "character driven." Is it now "fashionable" like SW again? Is it because Darth Vader finally reappears? I tried to cross reference the reviews' authors to see how the ones that loved ROTS reviewed TPM and ATOC, but rottentomato's search engine does not lend itself to that sort of stuff. TPM and ATOC both scored in the 60's on rottentomato, both were just barely "fresh." Right now ROTS scores an 89, behind ESB and ANH, but just barely. I know it's early, but I think this is a sign of a major media paradigm shift toward SW and GL. Revenge, indeed!

 

I know it's early, but I think this is a sign of a major media paradigm shift toward SW and GL.

Who really cares? I'd actually rather the media bash ROTS like they did the other PT films.

Is it now "fashionable" like SW again?

Anyone who thinks this way doesn't even deserve to see ROTS.

!snap

 

If no one cares, then why did you respond?
I'm sure you could have come up with something more interesting to say than that. No matter how you or I feel about the validity of the media negativity toward the PT, it's a downer. It would be great if the whole world embraced SW again; however, it doesn't affect my enjoyment of the PT.

Do you deserve to see ROTS? I was referring to the media, actually. Next time, if it means less of a spammy response, I'll be more clear. I do think that many critics and fans jumped off the bandwagon in the past 6 years. I never did, and now it sounds like many critics are jumping back on the bandwagon. I do not assert that this is a good or bad thing. I just stated a fact that seemed apparent to me.

 

If no one cares, then why did you respond?

I responded to point out how idiotic that statement is. Careing about what someone else thinks about a film just proves that you can't make up your own mind and need someone else to tell you what to think. I'm not saying this is you, as you were just pointing out the state of the media and the "masses".

I was referring to the media, actually.

Again, I did not say or imply that it was you, I simply stated that anyone who has that opinion does not deserve to see the film.

Next time, if it means less of a spammy response, I'll be more clear.

While my post could in no way be misconstrued as spam, I would agree however that being more clear would help.


!snap

 

Again, I did not say or imply that it was you, I simply stated that anyone who has that opinion does not deserve to see the film.

Ok, I don't want to start a war here, but if do not say who you're referring to while responding to something I wrote, it's not unreasonable to think that you were talking about me.

As to whether or not your post was spam, all I have to say is that pointless random negativity contributes nothing to the JC. You've been here longer than I have, so I know you know this. Besides, It seems that we both like the PT so I don't see what we are arguing about.

*sends envoy into no-man's land under flag of truce*

 

Why would we not care that Star Wars is loved again? If you had a child that you loved, would your love alone sustain it in the face of withering hatred from the world? I want people to revel in the joy of Star Wars as we all used to...before the dark times...before the Jar-Jar.

 

Why would we not care that Star Wars is loved again?

I'm not saying that I don't want people to love Star Wars again, I just couldn't care less which way the media decides to spin this film.

I want people to revel in the joy of Star Wars as we all used to...before the dark times...before the Jar-Jar.



!snap

 

"TPM and ATOC both scored in the 60's on rottentomato, both were just barely "fresh." Right now ROTS scores an 89, behind ESB and ANH, but just barely"

those OT tomato reviews are based on the special edition re-releases, hence its a void comparison.

 

And here's the recently unveiled ORIGINAL RottenTomato rankings for the OT, as in reviews that were written upon original release:

ANH - 80% (Shows that society were eager for something spectacular in a then-bleak world, but also shows that SW is far from universally loved)

ESB - 62% (Yes, folks, this is TPM's territory)

ROTJ - 34% (I am at a loss for words)

 

do you have a link for that?

 

ROTJ - 34% (I am at a loss for words)

Wow. I wouldn't have expected that.

!snap

 

ROTJ suffers from the same problem as TPM...dumb kiddie-focused creatures. The Republic started out as a bad, bad place, with Gungans allowed to roam freely. Then once the Empire finally established a nice place for everyone to live in a kiddie-free environment, those Kiddie Terrorist Ewoks went and overthrew the Empire and ruined things for adults everywhere. Long live Palpatine and has hatred of all things marketable to children under 6!

ROTJ has my favorite parts of the saga (Throne Room, Yoda/Ben/Luke last words, space battle) but the portions with Ewoks simply must be fast forwarded through.

 

TPM is just so underappreciated. Even the score... people have no idea about the celebration music at the end, or even Anakin's theme. That film may be one of John Williams' best scores ever, yet no one can watch the film and just shut up about how much they hate Jar Jar for 3 seconds so they miss it.

!snap