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Willow News-EU, Sequels, everything

Discussion in 'Lucasfilm Ltd. In-Depth Discussion' started by jedi_jra, Nov 24, 2012.

  1. patrickurrutia

    patrickurrutia Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 14, 2007
    I have all three books of the Willow sequel the Shadow War triligy by George Lucas and Chris Claremont.


    Books are alright but hard to get into since Willow changes his name and Elora is like Danearys from the Game of Thrones books
     
    Zikri likes this.
  2. Kuro

    Kuro Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 17, 2015
    I was a college student when WILLOW came out. It was about 10 years after I’d read THE LORD OF THE RINGS. I also spent most of high school playing DUNGEONS & DRAGONS, and was heavily into fantasy literature (aside from Tolkien, some of my favorites were Stephen R. Donaldson’s THE CHRONICLES OF THOMAS COVENANT, Katherine Kurtz’ Deryni novels, David Eddings’ THE BELGARIAD, and Lloyd Alexander’s THE CHRONICLES OF PRYDAIN* were some of my favorites). I’d even written a few fantasy novels of my own in college (they were all terrible and nobody will ever read them). So I was a huge fantasy fan in college and I really wanted to see justice done to the genre onscreen. Instead, we got a George Lucas film. Honestly, I’d put WILLOW on the same level as that awful D&D movie that came out just before LOTR. It’s that bad.

    *Unfortunately, THE CHRONICLES OF PRYDAIN is probably most remembered for having (very loosely) inspired the notorious Disney flop THE BLACK CAULDRON. Like most Disney films, they took the title, a few of the character names, the very basic elements of the setting, a handful of plot elements and just made the rest of it up. So if you didn’t like the Disney movie, just remember that it has about as much in common with the source material as most Disney movies- that is, almost nothing at all.
     
  3. ezekiel22x

    ezekiel22x Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2002
    Well, nice to know where you're coming from, but again I disagree. I'll always love Willow. Despite the ways it's derivative it still strikes me as much more authentic and charming than the SF/F adventure dross that mostly defines the current market. I hope Disney never comes up with a sequel, else they'll probably use it to push something like TFA meets PG-13 Game of Thrones.
     
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  4. Kuro

    Kuro Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 17, 2015
    Apparently, I’m not the only one:
    http://thebea.st/1H7XeBe

    I remember back when the 1st LOTR film came out (damn, it feels so weird to use the phrase “back when” in association with those movies), it produced a feeling in me that I hadn’t felt since watching the original STAR WARS for the first time at a crappy New Jersey drive-in theater at the age of 9. And honestly, I think that that’s the highest praise I can give to it. LOTR was the STAR WARS trilogy of the 2000s.
     
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  5. Darth Basin

    Darth Basin Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2015
    Uhmmm to me the PT was the SW trilogy of the 2000's!
     
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  6. ezekiel22x

    ezekiel22x Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2002
    According to Christopher Tolkien Jackson's trilogy was little more than "action movies for people 15-25 years old." I suspect he'd dismiss all Star Wars movies in similar terms.
     
  7. Kuro

    Kuro Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 17, 2015
    Well, I was speaking metaphorically, like when people were saying that THE SOCIAL NETWORK was the CITIZEN KANE of the 21st century, since as we all know, no actual STAR WARS trilogy was released during the 2000s.
    I’m aware of Christopher Tolkien’s complaints, and I respectfully, but strongly, disagree with them. Are THE LORD OF THE RINGS films perfect? No. I’ve never liked the way that Jackson interpreted Gimli, Legolas, and Denethor. I’ve never liked the addition of that BS nonsensical “Arwen’s life is now tied to the fate of the Ring” subplot. I’ve never liked this scene:



    In my opinion, the real problem with this change is the fact that he actually goes along with it and leaves. Bull!

    But for everything that Jackson gets wrong, I could name 100 things that he gets right. I won’t even bother going into it all, as the list is far too long. I could say that it’s the best adaptation of THE LORD OF THE RINGS that anybody had any right to expect, but that would be wrong. It’s a better adaptation than anyone had any right to expect. Far better. Whatever minor flaws the Peter Jackson trilogy may have, it’s not another DUNE, which is probably just about what we had the right to expect (and I say this as someone who absolutely adores BLUE VELVET and TWIN PEAKS). Suffice to say that I consider LOTR to be the greatest cinematic achievement of the 21st century so far, and one of the greatest films ever made during either the 20th or 21st century (I’ve always considered LOTR to be one film released in three volumes since, unlike SW, it was all one giant production, with principal photography on all three occurring simultaneously).

    THE HOBBIT movies, on the other hand…“action movies for people 15-20 years old” sounds about right and frankly, I think they represent a desecration of everything Tolkien stood for.
     
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  8. ezekiel22x

    ezekiel22x Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2002
    High praise. I think Fellowship is very good, but the overall trilogy is rather plagued by Jackson's increasingly sledgehammer sentimentality and dubious pacing. Would still make my list of notable action/adventure films of the early 2000s, but definitely not masterwork territory.
     
  9. Kuro

    Kuro Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 17, 2015
    Well, when it comes to sentimentality, Jackson definitely has it but it never really bothered me. Honestly, many of the most poignant parts of LOTR come straight from Tolkien, and I think the films are generally at their best when they manage to convey Tolkien’s themes and ideas in a cinematic way. And I really don’t think he’s any worse in that regard than Spielberg.

    As for the pacing, honestly, that’s one of the areas where I think these films succeed brilliantly. Pacing was always gonna be a huge problem for anyone tackling an adaptation of THE LORD OF THE RINGS, and Jackson succeeded brilliantly at keeping the story moving whilst also giving it enough time to develop naturally without rushing it. The balance between the quieter, more dramatic scenes and the spectacular action set pieces is near-perfect, without ever placing too much emphasis on one over the other. He masterfully juggles at least a dozen plot threads, sometimes simultaneously, without ever losing or confusing the audience. I really think the pacing of these movies is perfect. The irony is that the pacing in everything he’s made since absolutely sucks. (KING KONG could’ve been a great film, since nearly everything about is great except for the absolutely terrible pacing.)

    And yes, I’ll defend the multiple endings till the day I die. They were absolutely necessary and anyone who says that they’re a flaw simply doesn’t get it nor have they read the novel. The whole point is that Frodo Baggins does not get a happy ending. His journey didn’t make him stronger or bring him glory. It destroyed him to the point that by the end, he can no longer stay in Middle-earth. In the end, the One Ring defeated Frodo. And that’s very poignant and heartbreaking. We needed to see that, after all the pain and suffering and trauma that Frodo had gone through, it was absolutely impossible for him to return to a normal life, no matter how hard he tried. I’m glad that Jackson actually had the courage to stick with the book and do something that was honest and heartbreaking rather than something stupid and falsely upbeat like a teddy bear luau or just having all the characters standing in strain station cheerfully sending all their kids to school for the first time without bearing any kind of scars or such from their traumatic experiences. I would’ve been so angry with Jackson had he gone for some falsely upbeat Hollywood ending, and it would’ve completely reversed all of the goodwill that everything else in these movies had established.

    And please don’t tell me you don’t think the STAR WARS prequels are masterworks. It’a like saying that TWILIGHT is a better love story than CASABLANCA. It’s just factually wrong…even if you don’t particularly care for CASABLANCA or THE LORD OF THE RINGS.
     
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  10. ezekiel22x

    ezekiel22x Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2002
    The PT is among my favorite action SF movies. Good enough for me. I'm not the one who brought the "greatest cinematic achievement" label into the conversation, but if we're going there I don't think any big action SF franchise movie fits that standard. Individually, though, I do think Sith sits alongside American Graffiti and THX as Lucas's best work as a director and producer.

    So yeah, I love the PT. I like LOTR. Hard to view them as 21st century masterpieces when I've seen films like The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford, 2046, and The Tree of Life.
     
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  11. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Why? Because you disagree? Too bad.

    Is it? Why? Care to explain the correlation? That's a rhetorical question, by the way. Because there is none.

    No, it isn't. What's factually accurate is that your opinion is not a fact. Got it? Nobody died and made you king.
     
  12. Kuro

    Kuro Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 17, 2015
    Alexrd

    There is opinion and then there’s being ridiculous. Anyone who thinks that the prequels are better than LOTR is just being ridiculous. Even if you don’t like LOTR, it’s just so manifestly superior on every level as to nullify all debate. The level of craftsmanship, acting, writing, etc. in LOTR outstrips literally everything in the prequels, by a long, long gulf. LOTR had a real three-dimensionality and texture to its world. The prequels just felt like they were standing human actors in front of a Windows screen saver. LOTR, despite occasional moments of heavy-handedness and corniness had sincere emotion and actual human characters that real people could relate to. There was no emotional sincerity in the prequels. And aside from the Emperor and occasionally Obi-Wan Kenobi, there were no actual human characters in the prequels. We got facsimiles so bad that I call into question whether George Lucas really is a human or whether he’s secretly an alien…but the only people who could possibly see anything other than bad facsimiles of human behavior are other secret aliens whose understanding of the human race is so laughably bad that the idea that they understand humanity at all should just be rejected out of hand and not even given serious consideration. I mean, we’re seriously taking about a group of people who will claim, “C’mon! He just murdered a couple kids. You hoo-mons do that whenever you get angry, right?”

    Basically, it’s like trying to compare TWILIGHT to CASABLANCA. CASABLANCA is a real film. TWILIGHT is a joke.
     
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  13. LAJ_FETT

    LAJ_FETT Tech Admin and Collecting/Lucasfilm Ltd Mod star 9 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    May 25, 2002
    OK, enough. Let's get back on topic, shall we?
     
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  14. Nehru_Amidala

    Nehru_Amidala Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2016
  15. Skywalker Family

    Skywalker Family Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 15, 2017
    I love this movie and was bummed we never got a sequel. I know things continued in the EU.

    ROTJ is my #1 favorite so to see the great Wicket as Willow was a great treat to me.

    Val Kilmer was great as Madmartigan.

    Warwick Davis was only 17 when they filmed the movie and I thought he did a great job.

    Its a fun fantasy adventure and I am glad it has a following of loyal fans.
     
    Ewok Poet likes this.
  16. Darth Basin

    Darth Basin Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2015
    Did WD wear age makeup? He looked older than 17.
     
  17. Skywalker Family

    Skywalker Family Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 15, 2017

    I didn't really think he looked that much older. A few years maybe that was it.

    I am not sure maybe they did I have to look at the Special Features again.

    These topics have inspired me to watch Willow and Labyrinth again.
     
    Ewok Poet likes this.
  18. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    The Blu-ray seems to be out of print.
     
  19. Darth Basin

    Darth Basin Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2015
    I'd like to point out that i wasn't making fun of WD's looks when i asked was he aged to look older in Willow.
     
  20. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    Do they still consider the books as genuine sequels?
     
  21. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    who's gonna say no? Well, maybe the Lucasfilm Story Group when they de-canonize the sequel novels to make the Big Budget Disney Wilow Canon Universe. Willow Legends!
     
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  22. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    I'd love to see a cinematic continuation of Willow, with as many returning cast members as possible!

    :(
     
  23. Nehru_Amidala

    Nehru_Amidala Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2016
    How can a DVD be out of print?
     
  24. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    "How can John Wayne die?"
     
  25. Nibelung

    Nibelung Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2017
    Maybe if Jean Giraud/Moebius were still alive, they could hire him to do a big-budget animated remake. Hey, I can dream... ;)