With AOTC/TPM Lucas pulls the rug out from under our expectations

NAW IBO-- I completely agree with all of your great analysis. I never saw the real arrogance of the Jedi. At least not yet. And the more I think about it, Obi Wan was a lot nicer in AOTC than TPM.

JEDI_LEIA said: See, I would be surprised. I don't think Anakin is evil in AOTC. I think he can't control his emotions and he's a bit overconfident, but not enough to be a "sociopath". Yes, there was the Tusken Slaughter but there were circumstances surrounding that. I'm not saying it's alright that he did what he did. All I'm saying is that it's not like a guy who just wakes up one day and says "I feel like killing someone." That's evil. We are also told by Cliegg what kind of people the tusken raiders are.. I think this is sometimes overlooked. It was placed there to create that friction.
I know there are many threads on this issue alone and I think it basically boils down to opinion, so that's mine..

Well, I don't really think Vader was killing without a purpose. He killed as a mean to his evil ends. He was not just walking around choking people willy nilly. But inc omparison to every other Jedi we have seen in the PT, Anakin is by far the closest to going to the dark side. Even Dooku is a lot more cooler (cool meaning calm, not hip) than Anakin. But that's just how I see it.

Anidanami: I don't think people are really born good or evil. Infants sort of get a pass from a moral standpoint, because they have no morality. That said, I do think Anakin's personality has more of a tendency for him to be disrespectful or evil. I don't see where we really disagree here.

OPHELIA- Okay, okay, now that we are talking about existential negatives, I understand you.

And I am glad you liked the film! It's obviously one of my all-time faves. It had the depth and peformances I wish I could have seen in the PT. Especially when it comes to Jen and Anakin. And your sig is great! lol...that's a great scene. And it's also very true for the PT too. I never thought about that. LOL..

it's with saying does he really Love his Mother. Yes he does. Love her that is why got so mad that he taped in to some of the dark side. If it was not love I don't think he would have cared if she dead or not.

Jabba, great thread I'm glad to see, that even though you don't enjoy the PT on a superficial level (dialouge, effects, etc) you still appreciate the story Lucas has provided for us

I think he's portrayal of the so called "good-guys" IS a delibrate thing. I think he wanted many, many issues to create both The Empire and Darth Vader. Remember, when Germany gave Hitler power, they did so WILLINGLY. They knew what he stood for (mostly) and went along with him, for their own gain. The Hero's of WWII were flawed also. My Country, Britain sat all through the 30's allowing Hitler to murder 6 million people, for instance. Like all situations and major times in history, there are always several issues going on. I find Lucas' portrayal of a Republic rotting from within, rather than from without, amazing and facinating. He could have so easliy gone for a far easier story, Sith Invades Republic from the outside and takes over, but instead he choose's to say something interesting and frankly, rather new (in terms of movies) about evil and it's nature. If only some of the critics could see it!

I agree with your assesment of the Jedi, especially. The fact Anakin is supposed to just dump his mother, leave her a slave and forget about her. The fact the Jedi think they know it all, when the actually know very little. The fact they take children (from birth) to train them..... Do the children's Parents have any say in this? Or are they just taken whatever the childrens Parents think? Training 5 year olds to be killers...... I find the Jedi to be morally bankrupt, and thats been a HUGE shock for me, becasue I always thought they would be like saints. In many ways the Jedi deserve whats coming to them.....

The only person I feel sorry for is Obi-Wan. I feel he genuinely tried to comfort Anakin, over his bad dreams, but remember Jedi are not allowed to show emotion, so he couldn't really comfort Anakin. Obi-Wan didn't want to train Ani, but was bullied into by a manipulative Master, on his death bed. He is constantly warning the Council about Anakin, but they won't listen. I feel Obi-Wan is one of the only real victims in the PT.

Thanks for such a good thread.

Just to get back to the original thread of Lucas pulling the rug out from under our expectations, has anyone seen the confirmed list of deleted scenes?

George Lucas can kiss my ass.

That is the worst possible selection of deleted scenes I could possibly conceive of! Which is not what I expected...

Geez, George, do we really need to listen to your stupid commentary on why the scenes were cut from the final product? It's pretty flipping obvious!

Good, though...I REALLY wanted to have 7879 more scenes with Padme than the Mace/Jango battle in its entirety, or the full Dooku/Obi/Anakin duel, or especially Plo Koon and Ki-Adi Mundi and Aayla Secura destroying the droid ship.

Just another example of Lucas refusing to do anything for the fans.

What are the deleted scenes for? The fans...no one else.

I haven't been this disappointed in a long time.

I may not buy the DVD.


-dust

never mind me...just kinda worked up.


I'll still probably buy the DVD, even though my brother thinks we should all boycott it.

"These deleted scenes are just as bad as filming my butt for 20 minutes!"

Oh well.

-dust

"Feel the Force flow! Yes. Good...calm...yes."


I've never seen a deleted scene from any movie I thought anything of. In fact, I'd be mad if I thought there was good material that had been cut.

I understand your desire to vent, GARTH_MAUL. Disappointment can be bitter, especially if your expectations were high. However, can we all agree to leave it at that and not turn this thread into a referendum on George Lucas' intentions, sanity, character, etc.?

It's been going so well so far . . .

Told you I'd never make it as a Jedi.

It's stuff like not being able to see Plo Koon or FINALLY settling the debate as to whether or not Jango died like a punk that gets my goat.

If there is one thing I would criticize Lucas for, it's his interesting choice of edits.

Hmmm...I'm pretty much at a loss for this topic. It's been the most enjoyable topic I think I've ever posted on...but I'm fresh out of ideas.

I think it's interesting how we have unintentionally be drawn into different camps on this thread.

I really like seeing the controversies, and the complexity of analysis that SW can give us...

I always wonder just how much of this Lucas intends; in some ways, I believe him when he says these movies are just supposed to be entertaining...but there's too much to discuss for it to be coincidence.

It's also funny, on this thread (IMHO) how we've come to respect each other's opinions, even if they seem strange and weird.:lol

Anyway, on the topic of interpreting AOTC...sometimes a rose is just a rose.

And on the topic of the deleted scenes (last time, I swear), I wonder how Lucas thought that including the analysis droid scene, or Padme and Anakin's "Trial" on Geonosis were things that should be included on the DVD. Like, George: there's a reason why they were cut. Nobody cares about them.

-dust

up!



-dust