With regards to the KKK thing and links to websites...

Discussion in 'Communications' started by Mastadge, May 17, 2002.

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  1. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    This is not about the banning, per se, so please don't lock it. It is a relevant topic. Here is what I typed for that thread:
    I think your ban was justified, even though you probobly find the KKK as horrible as we all should, it is wrong to publicly post a link.

    I disagree completely. Information is not bad. He shouldn't even have been banned if he'd said, "I agree with their ideals." This is not breaking any of the terms of service. The ONLY reason he should've been banned is if he had come out and openly started flaming an individual or a group of people. This banning is especially inappropriate given the context of the linking. It's one thing to post a link to pornographic material -- that should be banned. But if someone wants help with a report on anatomy and you link them to a page that happens to have a picture of breasts, that's a completely different thing. Linking to a site saying, "kill all blacks" with the intent of advertising it should be bannable. Linking to an informational website, even one that may contain some offensive information, should not be bannable at all.
    So...what should be allowed and what should not?
  2. Red_Oktobur Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2001
    star 6
  3. Darth_Dagsy Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2000
    star 6
    For a PG board, is it ok to link to a site that is full of hateful propoganda?
  4. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    ...for the purposes of research for a report, not for any hateful purposes. Or are you saying that, essentially, ignorance is bliss?

    And as to all this "hateful propoganda," just read the site, which I just now visited for information purposes. You might be surprised.

    If I were to hate, say, Nazis, but then I were to write here what I know about them, would an admin then have the right to ban me because I was potentially teaching others about Nazis? What if it weren't a link? What if JAS had actually visited the site and then come back and written down info about the KKK without providing a link?
  5. Darth_Dagsy Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2000
    star 6
    The board has a lot of impressionable youths...if you think that the only person that would follow the link is the one doing the research, you are kidding yourself.

    I understand the distinction between trying to inform, and trying to corrupt, however its all semantics. Once you put the link out there, its open season. Anyone can go, for any reason.

    Its like the old saying (paraphrasing I think): The path to hell is paved with good intentions

    EDIT: On my way to check it out...
  6. ReaperFett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
    If its for one person, it can be PMed.
  7. Kerr_Plunk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2002
    star 6
    this is just my opinion/thoughts on the matter...

    i don't understand why people feel like they'll get more information by asking a question on the Community board then they would if they just went to google.com and did the research for themselves...
    i mean, these people are on the internet, they managed to find theforce.net, so there is a good chance that they can navigate a search engine and answer their own questions - especially regarding school work...
  8. chissdude10 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2001
    star 5
    Gee, thanks for using my quote Mastage.

    Why do we always use Nazi's in a comparisin on the boards, it gets annoying to say "Your a Nazi"
  9. Hama Retired GSA, Retired RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2000
    star 6
    Here's some common sense that could help everybody...

    The JC is not a research site. We aren't here to do your homework for you. Try Google or another search engine for your researching needs. The JC has always been, and always will be, a family-oriented website. It is not here for the discussion and/or research of the Ku Klux Klan or other hate groups (except according to the policies and procedures in The Senate Floor). Neither do we poll the members of the JCC to try to find out the best ways to get a girl pregnant, make pipe bombs, or sell crack to small children. Use some common sense, and we can all avoid situations like this.
  10. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    Neither do we poll the members of the JCC to try to find out the best ways to get a girl pregnant, make pipe bombs, or sell crack to small children.

    No, but we certainly discuss it when school shootings occur, or when celebrities die of an OD, or whatever. I agree that a thread about a hate group being a wonderful thing should be closed. But a thread discussing a hate group should not be, in my opinion. Just as, though we don't discuss how to make a girl pregnant, we are certainly allowed to discuss pregnancy, birth, babies, et cetera.
  11. Darth_Dagsy Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2000
    star 6
    Mastadge, after going to the KKK site, I stick with what I said. Hate filled propoganda. Anti-black, anti-homosexual, anti-nonchristian.
  12. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will fight, to my death, for your right to say it."

    I know that that doesn't always apply here, but again, there's a difference between agreeing with something and being able to discuss it. Just because we discuss the KKK doesn't mean we agree with them, and just because a link to a website is posted doesn't mean we're suddenly going to corrupt a bunch of kids. I've been reading and hearing about atrocities and objectionable organizations since practically before I could walk, and I'm not "corrupted."

    There were kids posting here on September 11, and yet there weren't people being banned left and right for spouting hatred for terrorists, or links to information about Islamic fundamentalist groups.
  13. Herman Snerd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 1999
    star 6
    So...what should be allowed and what should not?

    Discussion is one thing, but links are something else entirely. TFN has their policy on what material can and can't be linked to. The mods enforce that policy. Accept that and move on.


    It's not that touchy subjects aren't worthy of discussion, it's just that the people who run this site don't want those things discussed here, although there are some exceptions which are usually very closely monitored. There's always bound to be someone who takes offense and that just leads to e-mail complaints, which leads to staff headaches.

    As far as the link goes, removing it was the right thing to do.
  14. Darth_Dagsy Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2000
    star 6
    But Mastage, this thread isnt about the banning?

    I can understand your point. But by linking to the info, you are delivering the propoganda to young people. People like you and I might not have been corrupted by this sort of thing, but that doesnt mean others wont be. The more people the follow the link, the more chance you have of someone being corrupted.
  15. NathanDahlin Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2000
    star 6
    Well, I didn't see the link in particular, but the Terms of Service do say "User agrees not to post any material...hateful". That would be the category the link would fall under, if any.
  16. Jedi Greg Maddux Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 1999
    star 6
    The JC is a place for people to think for themselves, even if it's not always encouraged. If you can't make a decision on your posting material, you don't need to be here.

    Here's two simple ideas to help your decisions (re-iteration):

    1) If you have any doubts, don't post it.

    2) If you want a second opinion, PM a mod or ACer.
  17. Verdi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2002
    star 1
    I'm in complete agreement. Down with the admins! (please don't ban me!)
  18. Fluke_Groundwalker Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2001
    star 5
    I'm a little late here, but:

    JAS shouldn't have been banned. Maybe an editing, and a slight warning.
  19. Melyanna Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2001
    star 4
    JAS shouldn't have been banned.


    And it wasn't your decision. The mods have to use their discretion on matters like these. Obviously banning was the choice that this mod or admin felt was most appropriate. I wouldn't try to second-guess the mods most of the time. They have a tough job, and people telling them that they're just wrong doesn't make it easier. Granted, they're human and make mistakes, but in this case I think that it was better to be extreme than to give the impression that we allow links to hateful propaganda.

    Mel
  20. Darth_Dagsy Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2000
    star 6
    On the contrary, we should second guess the mods. If we have the evidence in the particular situation, we should be willing to ask whether they did the right thing.

    In cases such as this, however, we dont know the whole story. We dont know if JAS had been warned about things before. We dont know if its a simple as he makes it out to be. As such, we should wait until we know everything.
  21. Humble extra Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 1999
    star 5
    what ND said, the TOS must be read if not understood, clearly this guy didn't understand the TOS, and posted, therefore waiving his rights.
  22. keokiswahine Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2000
    star 5
    some questions posed in the JC should be answered by PM only.

    There's an adage, no good deed goes unpunished. I always wondered about that, and seems to mirror this situation at the moment. just a thought to ponder.
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