Women in Star Wars

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Minela, May 29, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Moderators: Darth_Nub, Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn
  1. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    That's what I thought, personally.
  2. Old-Wizard Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2007
    The blue twi-leks in phantom menace were hot
  3. mandragora Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2005
    star 4
    I think Padme's character in ROTS really is a victim of the digital equivalent of the cutting floor. Considering the cut scenes in ROTS (and in AOTC as well) I don't think it's a character inconsistency at all. The problem as I see it is that in AOTC they cut Padme, the family person, and in ROTS they cut Padme, the political person. The result looks like an abrupt change in characterization, but taking account of the extra scenes in both films it really isn't - Padme had a strong family bound in AOTC as well, and she had a major political role in ROTS. The one thing that's really changed is we don't see her running around with a blaster - but a pregnant woman running around doing blaster fights would look entirely ridiculous to me.
  4. Eliza_Skywalker Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2006
    ---------------------------------------------------------------
    Eliza_Skywalker posted:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Maybe GL wants to show us in ROTS, that Padme's attachment to Anakin has a bad influence on her, weakens her from inside and changes her character. Maybe her characterization mirrors how the influence of a sith-lord weakens the republic from inside.

    Just my stupid thoughts.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    mandragora posted:
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    I think Padme's character in ROTS really is a victim of the digital equivalent of the cutting floor. Considering the cut scenes in ROTS (and in AOTC as well) I don't think it's a character inconsistency at all. The problem as I see it is that in AOTC they cut Padme, the family person, and in ROTS they cut Padme, the political person. The result looks like an abrupt change in characterization, but taking account of the extra scenes in both films it really isn't - Padme had a strong family bound in AOTC as well, and she had a major political role in ROTS. The one thing that's really changed is we don't see her running around with a blaster - but a pregnant woman running around doing blaster fights would look entirely ridiculous to me.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    Your are right, the cut scene would help a lot to give a better understanding and more depth on Padmè's charakter. What also helps is the novelization of E III - it shows the conflicting feelings in her when she presents the petition of the delegation of the 2000 to the chancellor with Anakin standing there, watching the scene (and the conflicts and suspicion arising in him about Padmé at that moment). Another wonderful scene is, when she talks secretely to the other senators and she tells them, that they should talk about the situation with a reliable jedi - and she admits to herself, that the jedi she is speaking of is not her husband Anakin.
    It's a pity, that so many scenes with Padmé as a main figure were cut in E III (and E II).
  5. Connant Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2007
    star 1
    Going back to Princess Leia, I always thought she was just rude in A New Hope. The moment she got out of her cell she was mocking Han's rescue attempt. Criticism would be understandable, but only if it was constructive which hers was not. When Han started bickering back at her in the following scenes he was only returning the venom she'd already spewed at him without any provocation. Not to mention her borderline racist (speciesist?) comment at Chewbacca. If I'd been in Han's place the only thing keeping me from shooting her would be the reward and the fact that I was already out-numbered to a ridiculous degree anyway.
  6. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    That runs in her family. Notice that Padme was shocked when informed that Anakin killed younglings, even though she hadn't cared three years before, when he killed Tusken children.:p
  7. Kevin_Solo Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2007
    star 2
    Arawn_Fenn, I presume that the difference between Padme's attitude to Anakin killing the Jedi younglings and his killing the Tusken children is that the Sandpeople had tortured and killed his mother. When I saw the earlier scene in AotC, I was reminded of the film 'True Lies' (1994), where a wife finds out that her husband has been leading a double life as a secret agent. She asks him if he ever killed anyone:

    Helen Tasker: Have you ever killed anyone?
    Harry: Yeah, but they were all bad.

    I presumed that Padme took a similar attitude towards what Anakin did to the Sandpeople. o_O
  8. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Did the Tusken children torture/kill his mother?
  9. anakinandpadmedoomed Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2007
    star 4
    He should of left the women and children alone.
    That whole part was messed up(writing wise)IMO.
  10. Connant Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2007
    star 1
    I don't know... Sandpeople are awfully dangerous to the moisture farmers out there so having a tribe wiped out was a good thing for them. Another one of those "grey" areas... Maybe.
  11. anakinandpadmedoomed Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2007
    star 4
    Yeah I agree its def. a grey area..I believe they got what they deserve.(the grown-ups)but the women and children..who knows they prob. would of been mean as heck also..or grown up to be.I just dont like the idea of saying kill children..because they are the product of thier parents lifestyle..but look at the lifestyle.:(

    I didnt like the sandpeople at all..they were just too mean.
  12. Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 6
    It was nothing more than revenge, which is horrible for a Jedi at the very least.
  13. anakinandpadmedoomed Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2007
    star 4
    I agree, that is the bottom line IMO, It was done out of revenge, and that's not the jedi way..but he says that alot in the movies..but learns nothing.
  14. Darthbane2007 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2007
    star 4
    In my opinion, Women are not written properly. The only women who have the most lines are Padme & Leia, but what about the other females? I wanted to hear Aayla Secura's view on something, or have Luminara & Barriss at least voice their opinion on Dooku at the beginning of AOTC.

    In all honestly, Leia does come across as a B**** in ANH. Berating Han just because he didn't have some sort of plan to get her Lazy *** out of a Death Star teeming with hundreds and Thousands of troops, officers, and a Sith Lord. Kinda hard to do that, don't you think? she should be thankful someone did manage to save her.

    Another thing about Leia is a lack of emotion. She just watches her home planet, the one where she lived for the past 19 years, where all her family and friends live, get blown up in a single shot, and none of the following scenes shows her grieving. Seriously, she should have been at least crying when Luke burst into her cell.
  15. Vortigern99 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2000
    star 5
    Leia's plea to Tarkin to cease his attack on Alderaan is shot through with heartfelt emotion. One gets the sense that when she tells the Rebel officer on Yavin IV that "we have no time for sorrows" this is a necessary control she has placed on herself, rather than an indication of a lack of emotion. Besides, anger is an emotion -- and she clearly shows that in spades to Han. And finally, to call her 'lazy' for languishing in a prison cell from which there is no internal escape is unnecessarily derogatory and combative.
  16. Darthbane2007 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2007
    star 4
    IIf you ask me, she should have just said Coruscant. could have killed the emperor right then and there.

    I'm not saying we should have her crying for the rest of the movie. But she just watched her whole family that she known her whole life get blown up; you think she would have been crying or sobbing a little. Look at Luke.

    Again, not trying to put Leia down, but he too loses his only family on Tatooine when he pulls up to their charred remains. The sadness and emotion is in his demeanor when he goes back to Obi-Wan and agrees to go with him to Aldeeraan. Not a full blown 10 minute scene or anything, but it shows Luke showing his emotion.

    This is just my opinion, but what was her purpose? Sure, she was to bring the plans to the Rebel Base so they could plan the attack, But she does absolutely nothing during the whole Yavin Battle scene. Just looks at that Holoprojector.

  17. Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2001
    star 6
    IIf you ask me, she should have just said Coruscant. could have killed the emperor right then and there.

    LOL! Well, something tells me Tarkin wouldn't have destroyed Corsucant.


    I'm not saying we should have her crying for the rest of the movie. But she just watched her whole family that she known her whole life get blown up; you think she would have been crying or sobbing a little. Look at Luke.

    It is interesting to note that both Luke and Leia go through major trauma in ANH, yet spend half the movie giving comedic banter and walk away at the end smiling. That's not really a slam on ANH, it simply goes to show what kind of tone GL was going for in SW when he first started, and probably helps explain why GL found ESB to be his least favorite.
  18. nancyallen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2007
    star 4
    Oh gimme a hell yeah. Just about any female protagonist wouldn't take no crap.

  19. LadyZaraMarta Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 2004
    star 5
    Many forget the 'loyal decoy' whom only showed up in Episode 1.

    Sabe.

    If you think about it, it was Sabe who saved the day on Naboo. She distracted the Nemodians, so that Amidala may grab the hidden blaster.

    Notice in some scenes, Padme flinches when she fires the blaster. Not Sabe.

    Now there was a brave woman!

    I wonder what ever happened to her?

    [image=http://royalhandmaidensociety.org/images/galleries/episode1_by_scene/battle_for_naboo/battle32.jpg]
  20. Vortigern99 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2000
    star 5
    Sabe became a pirate, but had too much pride and prejudice, so she had to undergo atonement. ;)
  21. Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 6
  22. LadyZaraMarta Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 2004
    star 5
  23. RamRed Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 4

    Bravo! A lot of people tend to view Leia as strong and nearly perfect. Too much, if you ask me. However, I do find some of her more aggressive actions - her rudeness toward Han and Chewbacca in ANH and her encouraging Chewie to strangle Lando - as signs of her own personal weaknesses. She simply covered them up with acts of aggression and anger.
  24. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    Oh noes! How DARE a princess get angry?! Her fiery temper is part of what I and many others enjoy. You can't view Leia through the prism of the costume drama tone of the PT. You have to look at SW as the rather hokey adventure film it is. Leia's been trapped on this station, tortured, watched the destruction of her home planet and everyone on it, and when hope finally arrives it's two guys and a Wookiee* who obviously don't really know what they're doing. She's like, "Thanks for getting me out of the prison cell, but we're still surrounded by thousands of Stormtroopers on a giant Imperial space station!" And they're like, "Oh yeah. We didn't think this far ahead. I wonder what to do now?" Of course she's going to be angry in a comical, over-the-top manner suiting a film like this.

    And do you really blame her for being angry enough to want to choke Lando after the way he betrayed them? If you're really worried about the "anger leads to the dark side" issue with a non-Jedi (at that point) character in a situation that would make anyone justifiably angry, then I think you're missing the forest for the trees. It's not like Tarkin came in all mopey after blowing up Alderaan and she gave him a big hug. That's what the ACTUAL poorly-written female lead does.



    *Let's be realistic here, Chewie's half-animal nature was always innocently played up for humor in the OT. The allegorical racial stuff didn't come into play until the supplementary stories (read:EU).
  25. RamRed Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 4
    I really didn't need to see Padme with her family in AOTC to get a glimpse of her true character. I pretty much understood what she was about.

    As for ROTS, her character was being marginalized. And I believe that Lucas did this on purpose to indicate the rise of the Empire. Why else would he show two female Jedi being brutally killed during the ORDER 66 montage?


    Did the Tusken children torture/kill his mother?


    Does anyone really know the answer to that question? I certainly don't.
Moderators: Darth_Nub, Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.