Clone Wars Women in TCW

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Seerow, Dec 23, 2012.

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  1. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

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    Yeah, well, "some" can hop a Delorean and take their "certain point of view" back to 1958 where it belongs.

    I'd like to watch a series with 21st century ideals, thanks.

    I edited my last post to add some comments about political heroism. I'd like to see it, but the hero doesn't have to be Padme, and it certainly doesn't have to be Padme due to some antiquated idea about women not "belonging" in combat. Women belong wherever the hell they want to be.
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  2. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    I tend to think Padme doesn't belong in combat because she is a senator. She doesn't need to have a blaster out in front all the time.

    I'm shallow. I like the idea of a political hero (had one of these) and a pacifist hero (we got one of these women). I'd most like to see a woman high ranking in the military who also goes into battle with her troops. Not just standing on the bridge but down and dirty. No Jedi. Just a regular brave woman. Its a trope I kinda like. Really just slot her into a role like any male character without much thought to it.
    Last edited by Seerow, Dec 23, 2012
  3. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

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    I wouldn't mind seeing a high-ranking female officer in the Republic military either, at least a female Commander or Captain.

    The reason it doesn't bother me to see Padme wielding a blaster, besides that it's badass, is that in Star Wars, everyone seems to be armed. Leia wielded a blaster in ANH, we've seen Bail Organa wield one in the series. Especially given the circumstances they were in, I have no problem with anyone in any profession always being in a position to defend themselves.

    In the book No Prisoners, Anakin was being very careful sneaking into Padme's apartment because he knew he'd have to dodge a blaster bolt if he startled her. I'd rather see Padme in that light than, say, her ROTS portrayal a Padme who screamed for her guards at any strange noises.
  4. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

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    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    More interesting than a droid spa and searching for fruit. IMHO.

    Folks, remember in 1977 when ANH was released, women were not allowed into many combat roles: they were "weaker, going to get pregnant before shipping overseas, the men would be so protective they wouldn't do their jobs" etc. Leia was considered a ***** (female dog) by many viewers because she talked back to the men (shot from the mouth as well as the hip) and wasn't properly deferential and appreciative of their rescue. Go back to an old thread HERE and find some posters frothing at the mouth about GL "political correctness" because he dared to show a few female Jedi (background roles) - roles properly reserved for men. I can link to that thread if wanted.

    You also had the perception (in many cases, true) that male audiences would be turned off by strong female heroes and movie moguls want to make money - i.e. capture the target audience.

    Then again, you still have the default of white male and when you vary from that, you vary from the norm. There was complaining, too, about shoeing horning in non-white males to be "political correct" implying that the casting was "quota-driven."

    Times ARE a'changing, I'll grant you.

    Then again, we had a midriff-baring teenage female in a prominent role (TCW) and a midriff-baring female in the movies (Padme, AoTC) and lots of fanboys drooling over the same. Funny how only the women get clothes so artfully torn or designed (though at least SW counterbalances Aala Secura with the relatively over-dressed Luminara and Barriss).
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  5. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    Yes, anyone can wield and that's okay from time to time. She was a bit of an action hero in the PT. But that shouldn't be the sum of Padme's appearances in TCW and she should immediately be handed a blaster in "Mystery of 1000 Moons" IMO.
  6. QuangoFett Force Ghost

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    Jun 11, 2011
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    Narrator: "The maverick Senator Lux Bonteri fights his political battles in the Galactic capital while fretting about his secret lover, Jedi Commander Ahsoka Tano!"

    Speaking of Lux, I think he might be of benefit to Padme's story as well. As a friend of Mina Bonteri's, Padme might take the boy under her wing like Mina is said to have done for her. My problem with Padme in Pursuit Of Peace was to do with the details of her political position, namely extremely radical rather than the moderate she is in the films. As a senator, Lux could be the radical while Padme reverts to her G-canonical moderation, thus allowing Lux to serve as a foil for Padme.

    I liked Padme's action role in the Dac arc, so I have little problem with her involvement in violence. However, her politics and her relationship with Anakin are what make her more than just a girl with a gun.

    For a female military officer of either the Republic or CIS, I echo @Seerow. For other character types, there are so many that I envision TCW introducing (Republic-aligned terrorists, CIS business magnates, Sith cultists, etc.), and it wouldn't be bad at all if at least some of them were female. I like good male characters as well, but these themes and archetypes are fundamentally gender-neutral.
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  7. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    I got some bad news for you, bro. I think your ship has sunk.

    Lux taken in by Padme as a political mentor is a good idea but I also kinda like the idea Lux gets there and starts to reconsider his position at the end of Onderon that the Republic is the greener grass. Off topic. I need to dig up the Lux thread or make one of those as well.

    I think Padme is best used in violence only when its a last resort or necessary. Not immediately given the gun or leading the charge.

    I'll say that I'm not the biggest fan of just throwing females in to be politically correct. Sometimes it feels like TCW does this. Like with the painfully generic Steela. The young Jedi arc even did this a little in my opinion by envoking the Sentai trope which plays that way to western audiences.
    Last edited by Seerow, Dec 23, 2012
  8. Narutakikun Force Ghost

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    Nov 8, 2012
    star 4
    Some might say that the idea that newer ideas are necessarily better is the application of technological thinking to areas where it does not apply. A 2012 iPod is necessarily better than a 2002 one. But in the realm of philosophy and society, the truth is closer to the idea that everything changes; and that some of those changes are for the better, and some for the worse. "1958" (or your concept of it) had some better ideas than 2012, and 2012 has some better ideas than 1958. To claim that one had the monopoly on better ideas is simply delusional.

    Some might also question how being opposed to seeing women shot and maimed and burned and disfigured exactly qualifies as "misogyny", which is the hatred of women. Some might even say that's bass ackwards.

    Anyhow, some shows split the difference. Some rather prominent frontloaded feminism aside, Legend of Korra is reactionary to a genuinely shocking degree. Seriously, you'd have to start reading Julius Evola to find anything as committedly anti-egalitarian as that.
  9. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

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    I'm not in favor of MEN shot and maimed and burned and disfigured as well.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  10. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

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    star 7
    We're obviously not going to agree, and your continuous tacit approval (as I read it, correct me if I'm wrong) of the disgustingly chauvinistic ideals of "some" (the idea that women are somehow less capable than men on the battlefield or don't deserve to fight if they choose) is just going to piss me off, so we should just end this line of conversation here, especially if you are going to start calling people "delusional" when they disagree with you.

    I'll reiterate that women belong wherever the hell they choose to be.
  11. Narutakikun Force Ghost

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    star 4
    Me neither.

    If you like
    Last edited by Narutakikun, Dec 23, 2012
  12. QuangoFett Force Ghost

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    @Seerow

    Steela was painfully generic, eh? And that's a problem or even an example of political correctness? I recall that you have some choice words about Saw as well. Male characters are sometimes painfully generic. I don't particularly hold female characters to a higher standard than male characters.

    I see as good in and of itself the fact that Steela was envisioned as a female character, opinions about how she was written being irrelevant to that. It's good that the character of the Onderonian Rebel Leader was envisioned as a female, as this helped to flesh out the setting. This subtle means of embellishment is one of the great benefits of female characters being introduced. It's very similar to the "political correctness" of such critical characters as Lando Calrissian, Mace Windu, Bail Organa, Jango Fett and the clone troopers being envisioned as non-white men, which helped to expand and embellish the setting.
  13. Narutakikun Force Ghost

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    @QuangoFett

    Righteous Captain Scarlet avatar. I love that show.
  14. QuangoFett Force Ghost

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    Jun 11, 2011
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    Indestructible indeed.
  15. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    @QuangoFett

    Do you recall the line from the 2nd episode "Get out of a tank. This requires a womans touch?" or something like that. That was incredibly lame. The "A woman can do it better." line didn't need to be there. Just do it. I think the brother and sister combo was used in order to have a female character and more so in order to create that love triangle with Steela, Ahsoka, and Lux.
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  16. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

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    Steela was horrible for many reasons, those you listed among them. Just let Steela do what a man in her position would do, without the lame-ass lines that scream, "Look! I'm a woman! You can't accuse TCW writers of being sexist now! They included a woman!"

    It's a concept called "trying too hard," and the writers need to give it some thought.

    And I won't even get started on the love triangle, that's a separate topic.
    Last edited by anakinfansince1983, Dec 23, 2012
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  17. Narutakikun Force Ghost

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    And not even any hints of wincest. Seriously - haven't these people ever seen Sword Art Online?
  18. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    This!!! Thank you, that's exactly what I'm trying to say. -fist bump!-

    Yeesh, everyone jump to grill Seerow.
    Last edited by Seerow, Dec 23, 2012
  19. QuangoFett Force Ghost

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    Jun 11, 2011
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    Granted, I forgot much of the Onderon arc since it aired... :p

    Yes, that was cringe-worthy and was an example of the writers trying too hard. It still didn't make the existence of a female rebel leader any less of a good development in and of itself, which is the point I was making.
  20. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    Touche. I was the one who swore never to watch it again. Then watched it twice more...

    Not when they try to hard and have a character pretty much wearing her ovaries on the outside. It just pisses me off.
  21. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

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    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    You know, even if they do go heavy-ham-handed over the use of women, I give them credit for including women. That's one step. Using them well is another, but heck, not even the men are used well sometimes. In their attempt to show the usefulness of youth, they've been ham-fisted in the obtuseness of experienced.

    In other words, kudos to the thought, now try harder to use all your characters well.
  22. rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2004
    star 4
    LOL! Re-animated by Queen Katrina: "Her mind becomes my mind - her thoughts, my thoughts."
    "If we just avoid any more female advice..."
    Hmmm...I wonder who said that? I wonder why that line would not also be considered cringe-worthy...if we are indeed talking about sexist cringe-worthy lines.
    Last edited by rumblewagon, Dec 23, 2012
  23. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

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    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    I thought Steela came off as a very strong woman. Yeah, there were a few terrible lines involved, but that's TCW, they give everyone terrible lines. Yes, she sorta got involved in a competition with another woman over a man, but Han and Luke competed for Leia, right?

    What I saw was that she was a strong, disciplined, organized, motivated and competent leader with solid ideals and a sniper rifle with unlimited headshot ammo.
  24. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

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    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Han was a bit misogynistic from the outset but Leia held her own against him--and as Valairy pointed out, got called a ***** for it.
  25. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    The sniper rifle thing was pretty cool with Steela. Steela just came off as a character who has a "Look at me, I'm a woman who kicks ass." sign on her and probably one of the worst offenders to date from TCW. Yeah TCW is usually really lame and even pretentious with the dialogue. But I don't get that impression from characters like Chuchi or Mrs. Lawquane or Miraj or Satine or Ventress. Ahsoka to an extent. I am probably spoiled TBH. When it comes to strong, disciplined, leader type with a killer eye with a sniper rifle who just happened to be a lady take a look at Riza Hawkeye. One more reason to recommend FMA:B.
    Last edited by Seerow, Dec 23, 2012
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