Clone Wars Women in TCW

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Seerow, Dec 23, 2012.

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  1. Iron_lord Chosen One

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    Sep 2, 2012
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    On the subject of female stormtroopers, The Essential Guide to Warfare went with them being uncommon but present.
  2. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

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    Apr 29, 2011
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    We got a closer look at Jedi interactions in the Rako Hardeen arc and also in A War on Two Fronts. It took them awhile to venture there. I agree more would be good. I thought A War on Two Fronts made it look like that would be a feature of the arc and was disappointed it wasn't.
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  3. kenobifan1999 Jedi Knight

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    Sep 3, 2012
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    ashoka is a great female character and hero. so is padme. both are two of my favorite characters in the show and are both very enjoyable.
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  4. rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master

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    Your contribution is appreciated. Anything will help.
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  5. kenobifan1999 Jedi Knight

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    I also forgot to mention ventress. who is an amazing female character, while not a hero. she sticks to her beliefs and has a very strong will. and is also very cool and one of the most interesting characters in the show thus far
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  6. Togruta Force Ghost

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    Tbh I'm tired of all the "tough chicks" that Filoni seems so keen on adding more and more of. A heroine who can kick ass or fight corruption isn't automatically exempt from being dull. I want character. Personality, motives, weaknesses, faults, humor. They don't all have to be warriors and women in power to be interesting.
    Last edited by Togruta, Dec 28, 2012
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  7. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    I Miraj fits that. She doesn't really kick ass. She's no hero. She not a flatout evil villain just misguided. She had a really subtle, coy personality. Her motives are power and sticking to tradition. Her weakness was falling for Anakin. She had humor. Satine also to an extent, before tea and Padme's bad influence.
    Last edited by Seerow, Dec 28, 2012
  8. CT-867-5309 Chosen One

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    The slaver Queen is not a flatout evil villain, but Wulff Yularen is?

    As you wish.
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  9. QuangoFett Force Ghost

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    By that standard, no character can be defined as a "flatout evil villain". Miraj was made for that description. I found her more contemptible than any of the Sith, Imperials or any other SW villain.

    I liked the way she exerted her influence without directly engaging in violence all the time, however. The rest of your point I agree with.

    It will take more than Corruption to drag Satine down into the dirt. By "bad influence" I presume you refer to a moment of uncharacteristic bloodthirstiness rather than any real part of her characterisation.
  10. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    Because Yularen is a slave to tradition?

    IMO, if your just seeing Miraj as being simply an evil slaver then your missing the point of her character. In this particular case, Miraj is part of a society that believes slavery is normal and good. She is a product of her society. See the dialogue where Miraj is talking about the weak are born to serve the strong where she is pretty much talking like its the natural order of things. This is like if you were born in a society that believed it was perfectly fine to eat other people and you grew up always being told eating other people is the natural order of things. Then Steve-O comes to your village and tells you, its wrong to eat other people. Your gonna say "Its the natural order of things, now hold still while I saute you in garlic." - A little exploration into the gray areas goes a long way toward making Miraj more sympathetic although she is still evil and deserved a taste of her own medicine in death.

    This isn't the first time I've found a group that enslaves innocent people to be both horrible but sympathetic slaves of their beliefs and what they perceive as natural. No ones going to get this or care but Miraj reminded me of the Yeerks from Animorphs who evolved to be parasites. They crawl into a host's ear and take control in their brains. Without a host, a Yeerk is a blind, deaf, mute, and nearly immobile slug that just happens to have human intelligence. Its existence is pretty much in a void. They see it as both the natural order of things and pretty much as their right to take hosts. Seeing it that way, its easier to sympathize why the Yeerks do what they do. Even evolution still makes it morally wrong obviously.

    And yep. 'Corruption' still happened and "The Academy" didn't help much either. It does seem like her characterization is meant to regress from what the last two seasons have shown.
    Last edited by Seerow, Dec 29, 2012
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  11. CT-867-5309 Chosen One

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    LOL.

    Yes, he is. This was one of my points when we last had this discussion, and one you denounced.

    He's a legacy from an influential Coruscanti family (aka rich white folks who are prejudiced against aliens, and apparently non-white and female humans) and his father was a legendary naval instructor. There's a good chance he was brought up to believe the same ideals and values that came into dominance during the reign of the Empire.

    Here are some quotes from you in the Yularen thread:

    But Miraj can reestablish a slave empire that had long been destroyed?

    You're not gonna give Yularen a pass for being a cog, but you're gonna give Miraj a pass for being a cog in the long line of Zygerrian slavers?

    Seems like tradition is an excuse for Miraj but not Yularen.

    WAIT! Doesn't Miraj "look shady" ? Doesn't she look evil?
    [IMG]

    lol it's okay if you have double standards, I don't care. I have fully support double standards, I have them myself.
  12. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    @CT-857-5309

    Cats do tend to look pretty shady don't they? And so do owls for that matter. Are you implying characters should look evil or shifty just because they are aliens? Am I really the only one being shallow here?

    Miraj doesn't know she is a cog in any wheel. She is being played like a harp. She's drinking power, profit, and trying to restore what she sees as a traditional way of life. Its not right. See my post about the Yeerks above if you care. I'm not getting her a pass but I am pitying this woman. My point is she is not just one of those mustache twirlers. She had a motive and legitimate gray areas to her personality. This is most apparent at her end however. Its not impossible she could have been talked out of her ways with enough time and patience but she's still going to jail.

    I don't know anything about Yularen other than what TCW had shown me and that the dude is sitting at a table with important looking people in the empire looking important. He doesn't look like a simple soldier just following orders. Yularen does not look like a simple soldier. He's not janitor. He looks like some kinda of decision maker. He knows exactly what he's doing. There are no free passed from me for him. I may pity him thanks to TCW. I can pity him if he's raised in such a way he's a slave to a tradition (Serving on the Deathstar, genocide, and looking mad are tradition?). He's a good candidate for TCW to use in an arc where the republic does something not cool.

    Heh, I'm certainly not on any moral high ground. I'm probably pretty evil. I'm pretty much an expert in both ripping vending machines off and using them to rip people off. Just get a wad of toilet paper and jam it up the change slot. People will assume its broken. Come back and collect the change before the vending machine people arrive. Not something I'm proud of from my younger years and yeah I should have been punished or gone to jail for the $60 or so I stole from people that way in the 11th grade doing that. I'll go turn myself into the police now.
    Last edited by Seerow, Dec 29, 2012
  13. CT-867-5309 Chosen One

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    LMAO.

    I was using your own arguments against you.

    LOL! Miraj is the freakin Queen! She controls everything and she's fully aware of what she is doing.
  14. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    She is the Queen of Zygerria yes but is being used by Dooku. In reality she is barely in control of where her own feet land when she walks. She doesn't even know it. She dies pretty much after he tells her to bow down to him. That was a total revelation to her.

    Honestly at this point your asking me to believe alot about a character I know little about and doesn't seem to have anywhere near the development TCW gave Miraj in two episodes to me. I'm still a n00b and unfamiliar with anything outside of TCW and the movies. Tell me what you'd like me to read so that I may come back to you after that about Yularen.
    Last edited by Seerow, Dec 29, 2012
  15. rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2004
    star 4
    Are you talking about women like Sassi the waitress who gets choked by Savage Opress?
    [IMG]
    Do you think there needs to be an episode about how she had to take a few days (maybe a few weeks) to recover from her injuries and she doesn't have any health care insurance or paid time off and her daughter Jabbi is very worried about her mommy and why a bad man would want to choke her mommy when she was just trying to serve him food? And Sassi hires a lawyer and decides to sue the restaurant owner because he allowed this violent person into his establishment; and the restaurant owner goes out of business which leads all other restaurant owners to use only droid servers and be forced to carry additional liability insurance.
    Those are just some of my thoughts. What kind of ideas did you have?
  16. CT-867-5309 Chosen One

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    She went to Dooku for help reestablishing her slave empire, he's not controlling her, she's responsible for her own actions.

    LOL what are you even watching?

    Dooku isn't forcing her to torture or kill slaves or sell them off, she's doing that all on her own.

    She's the one playing Anakin, ordering him to whip Obi-Wan, forcing him to be her personal slave to save his friends, etc.

    To try to say that Miraj has no agency is just laughably bogus.

    A revelation of what? That she bit off a little more than she could chew?

    "I'm a slave, just as you are" = oops, I tried to play with the big boys and lost.

    She had plenty of power, she just allied herself with someone more powerful and it got her killed.
  17. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    @CT-867-5309

    Again, Miraj is a slave to tradition and a way of life she was brought up to believe is natural, that is what she is trying to bring back. Her motives are tradition and the profit of it which are what brought her to seek out Dooku. And she ended up part of a big Xanatos gambit like it seems alot of the Galaxy is in and paid for it with her life and died with the knowledge she had basically become a slave herself. Her empire seems to have been part of the plan. - "Long have sith empires been built on the backs of slaves." - Far as I can tell if she hadn't gone to Dooku nothing would have ever happened. She'd likely be who she is with or without him. She'd likely still have twi'liks jumping off buildings to escape the agony of life as her slave. However, she'd just be some backwater queen. That's not what I've been getting at. My entire stand on Miraj is she is a slave to tradition, nothing more or less which is why I pity her. In the end she was powerless to escape from that. Yes, she is a horrible person by every stretch of the imagination. That I never refuted.
    Last edited by Seerow, Dec 29, 2012
  18. CT-867-5309 Chosen One

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    No, she didn't. Not even close.

    I don't see how "Ally with Dooku, disobey Dooku, get killed by Dooku" is a Xanatos Gambit.

    She just bit off more than she could chew.

    Oh, and I just read your Animorphs comparison after skipping right over it like I usually do, and that's perhaps the worst ******* comparison I've ever seen.

    I'll lay off now.
  19. Togruta Force Ghost

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    Lifetime meets TCW. lol
  20. Robimus Force Ghost

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    I think TCW has an excellent amount of female characters in prominate roles. Its actually a strength of the show that women get as much screen time as they do.

    Let me ask a question here though. Has there been a truly evil female character in this show? We have seen numerous female characters who start out as evil only to have them shift to be viewed in a more sympathetic light. Ventress & the Slaver Queen come to mind right away. I have another example but since its spoilerific I'll skip it for now.

    I guess Talzin fits that description, but even then we are suppost to feel for the Nightsisters as Grievous carves them up. So Talzin is one, who else?
  21. rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master

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    Aurra Sing may be the closest to a truly evil female character. She committed some truly despicable acts and she's not done anything to really cast herself in a more favorable light as far as any good deeds. Maybe Queen Katrina but she's just trying to expand her parasitic empire; and that would be liking calling the Queen Alien from Aliens "evil"; when really these creatures' motives are more focused on survival of their own species.
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  22. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    Its mainly Miraj and Ventress who come to mind as more sympathetic. Really we haven't seen many villainesses. Lolo not so much. Aurra Sing is the cool kind of crazy sadist. I like that about her. If we were looking at guys then I'd throw Savage and Slick out there.
    Last edited by Seerow, Dec 30, 2012
  23. agentkrycek Jedi Grand Master

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    Nov 4, 2012
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    Aurra Sing and Mother Talzin are the only two I can think of. As far as the Nightsisters go, I see them being more of a neutral group whose actions are dictated by the will of their leader. Almost like the Others on Lost.
  24. CT-867-5309 Chosen One

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    I've seen this comment a few times and it doesn't really make sense.

    Aayla Secura walking around half-naked isn't anything close to nondescript or inconspicuous. Yes, that is common dress for Twi'leks, but it's also designed to attract attention. Aayla is drawing an incredible amount of male attention walking around like that, males aren't going to look at her and go "Oh, Twi'leks always dress like that, no big deal" and pay her no mind, they're going to drool over her. All eyes will be on her. On the other hand, if Aayla covers up and dresses more conservative, no one's going to look at her go "Wait! Twi'leks are always half naked! SUSPICIOUS! She must be a Jedi!" I don't see how a simple cloak or robes screams JEDI, since we see plenty of common folk (like on Tatooine) wearing similar attire.

    Any claim of nondescript or inconspicuous is completely blown by the lightsaber dangling from their hip, which Aayla and Ahsoka (and every other Jedi) are almost always shown wearing. A lightsaber is a dead giveaway.
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  25. Robimus Force Ghost

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    Savage and Slick never joined the good guys to help them out(that said I guess Miraj didn't either).

    Sing is a good one. I'd forgotten about her.
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