Clone Wars Women in TCW

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Seerow, Dec 23, 2012.

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  1. rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2004
    star 4
    ^ that must be what Ahsoka's 1st outfit and character design was modeled after - except they decided to give her white leggings in order to not be too risque.
  2. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    Or worse:

    [IMG]

    And Krismo Sodi looks straight up bishounen. I see it TCW.
    Last edited by Seerow, Jan 1, 2013
  3. Narutakikun Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    star 4
    I don't think this helps your case. Yes, topless women are normal in a topless bar, but (outside of the sort of men you seem to hang out with) being in a topless bar isn't a thing one "normally" does. Yes, unusual things happen in unusual places. But we're not talking about unusual places, we're talking about what you'd see under normal circumstances in normal places.

    Again, I don't mean to be rude, but you're increasingly coming across as the sort of fellow who says: "I can't stop staring at the women I see around me on the street. They must all be a bunch of sluts for making me look at them that way". For those of us who are capable of being around women who aren't dressed like nuns without looking over every inch of them like they were meat on a hook at a butcher shop and we were the county health inspector (not to mention those of us who are not "normally" found in topless bars), it kind of comes across as a little creepy.

    Hey, how did things get to the point where I'm the feminist in this conversation?

    Yeah... this isn't helping with the whole "creepy stalker" vibe going on here.
  4. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    You're not.

    An elaborate comparison of women to meat makes you about as far from a feminist as they come, and your pretense that you are defending the dignity of women by doing so is quite frankly disgusting.
    Last edited by anakinfansince1983, Jan 1, 2013
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  5. Seerow SWTV★Manager

    Manager
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    star 6
    Ya know. I'm thinking the current discussion in here is getting to personal and has gone far enough. Lets knock it off.
  6. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    I've never been in such an establishment, but I know they exist and I know they're popular, their long history and enormous financial success says so. Suggesting that sexual attraction doesn't exist in every part of society is just false.

    Secondly, I think the stripper analogy has at least some relevance, considering that the Twi'lek attire we are discussing is that of "exotic dancers". Duh.

    There are a million more examples of "normal" but attention grabbing attire, such as uniforms and insignia of authority, makeup, stylized hair, etc.

    And you're just using this character attack to cover up your weak argument.

    Good day.
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  7. rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2004
    star 4
    Wow, the new year is here and this thread turns into scantily-clad anime and 1950's porn. I thought the apocalypse was suppose to have already happened on Dec. 21, 2012? Or perhaps the world did end and we've entered the VOID!
  8. Narutakikun Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    star 4
    You say that like it's a bad thing...
  9. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    I think the conversation should be broader than Ahsoka's and/or Aayla's clothing, because there's been some fine points.

    Armor. Sure, armor isn't a backpack, but I've done weeklong trips, carrying food, tent, clothing. I'm shorter than most of the other females and all the males on the various trips, but my weight saving for smaller clothing is minimal.

    Ideally, one should only carry roughly 25% of one's body weight, up to 50% maybe based on need and the person's strength. When we divide group gear, what is fair?

    Take a hypothetical example: a 100 pound woman (not me!) and a 180 pound man. Give them each an additional 10 pounds on top of a 35 pount pack.

    The group weight was divided evenly - half and half. Fair? Or burdensome to the woman who carries a greater proportion of her body weight? What if the woman is far stronger than the man?

    So, the armor weight issue is valid.

    Then again, the armor doesn't seem to protect all the vital places so seems pointless for all. I'm sure that doesn't imply tha tthe females are smarter to recognize this and thus forego it.

    So in war situations, clothing clearly needs to be functional for the demands.

    In non-war situtations, actually I agree a Twi'lek dressed like a Twi'lek probably gets attention, but as a Twi'lek as opposed to a Jedi. One sees what one expects, so without a prominent lightsaber on the hip (in such situations), dressing like other Twi'leks is a form of camouflage.

    The only OOU question, which we all know the answer to, is why only the females have an IU reason for dressing as they do. Twi'lek, Togruta - men have no need to display themselves but females do. A reverse peacock effect?
    Last edited by Valairy Scot, Jan 1, 2013
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  10. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Are there any featured Twi'lek males other than Orn Free Taa and Bib Fortuna? Fortuna would probably wear whatever Jabba gave him, and no midriff-baring clothing for Free Taa, please.

    And what do Togruta males wear?
  11. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    We saw Togruta males in the slavery arc.

    Orn Free Taa wearing a speedo at the Senate swimming pool!!!!!!! Yikes.
  12. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    I think Seerow made the point that the Jedi armor seems to just be modified clone armor. The clone armor would thus be made in only one size to fit all of the identical clones.

    I would highly doubt that clones, living different lives, would all conveniently be the same size, but I must suspend disbelief there.

    In which case it may just be that some coincidentally fits Mace, Obi-Wan and Anakin, but that it wouldn't fit Ahsoka.

    In regards to Ahsoka's choice of clothes though, I find it odd. Even looking IU, the Jedi all dress in similar style robes. It seems to be a traditional/modest/pauper thing. They dress simply, kind of like how Owen does on Tatooine.

    Compare them to some of the politicians or the Coruscant civilians that dress far more elaborately. Yet Aayla and Ahsoka just seemed to just ignore tradition for tube tops. If I saw other Jedi blatantly disregarding the traditional robes and saw that kind of vanity among the men as well, it would be easier to accept. But when it comes to the films and TCW (I can't speak for the written EU), Aayla and Ahsoka just stand out. Even with Ahsoka's updated model, she sticks out as being one of the only Jedi (one of two that I can think of) to not conform to the humble style of dress - excluding Gungi or other aliens that may not wear clothes at all.

    I'm not one to cry out that TCW is corrupting the youth with a scantly clad heroine. For instance, using the Nexu as an excuse to expose Padme's midriff wasn't a huge deal for me. And walking into the shady sports bar on Coruscant and seeing women in more provocative clothing did not seem entirely out of place for that context.

    But Ahsoka, being a Jedi, just stands out. And it's weird to hear all the excuses about how she's nimble and how it's to her advantage to wear a tube top and not be restricted by clothing, etc. When more female Jedi than not conform to the traditional styles - Luminara, Barriss, Adi, Katuni, Shaak Ti (excluding her TFU attire), Bultar Swan, etc.

    I don't see any male Jedi just walking around bare chested because of those burdensome robes.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Jan 1, 2013
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  13. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Yeah. Anakin even wears his armor at home. Dammit.

    I think the whole notion of the scanty clothing "corrupting youth" is stupid. Sure, let's teach children that the body is something to be ashamed or afraid of. :rolleyes:. But at the same time, Ahsoka and Aayla's character models were designed that way for one reason and one reason alone: male viewer eye candy. Nothing wrong with that per se, I just wish female viewer eye candy would be given equal time.

    But let's not pretend that "all Twi'lek and Togruta women dress that way and nobody within or out of universe is supposed to notice."

    And Valairy, I'm hanging onto that Free Taa in the pool image for the next time I need to skip a meal. :p. Not too many dudes look good in Speedos anyway but oh vey, that visual...
  14. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    Don't worry, no one is getting that impression.

  15. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
  16. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    This makes very little sense, btw. If you're strong enough to hoof it, why not take the extra protection? Some protection is better than none. Just because an area of your body isn't vital doesn't mean you don't care to protect it. Any damaged area of the body can lead to death if the wound is severe enough. Bleeding, infection, burns, etc can lead to death, not to mention loss of consciousness and shock.
    [IMG]
    Obi-Wan has quite a bit of his body covered here. His head and his lower torso are the only unprotected vital points. I think Jedi should wear clone helmets too, but the folks at LFL probably wouldn't want to hide the faces of their major characters. There's no IU reason I can think of for Jedi not to wear them. Visibility? The Force can be their eyes.

    Protecting the arms is vital for a Jedi, their lightsaber is their life.
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  17. QuangoFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2011
    star 4
    Indeed. Clone assassins are agile and flexible enough to make Aayla and Ahsoka look like concrete girders, and this is what they wear:

    [IMG]

    Yeah. Not exactly Magic Mike material.

    Armour has its uses for protecting from shrapnel and environmental extremes. I recall a shot in The General of Rex getting flung several metres into the air by a nearby explosion, and then getting up to fight without a falter in his step. On a battlefield filled with fireballs and smaller blastwaves, the armour provides some appreciable protection.

    In ROTJ, though, the stormtrooper armour is weak as crap. It's penetrated by wooden spears and stone arrowheads, and the helmets don't provide protection against rocks impacting them... Par the course for the incredible Ground Battle of Endor.

    [IMG]

    I like the Jedi armour a lot. While the robes seem appropriate for peacetime, the armour helps emphasise the point that the Jedi have devolved (or evolved, at least from Anakin's PoV) into soldiers from peacekeepers. They're now an elite military unit and a huge component of the Republic military-political complex that will later evolve into the Imperial war machine. That the Jedi armour's upper chest and shoulder plates are modelled after Darth Vader's armour was a very nice touch.

    The armour does provide some functional benefits. In one the S2 opener episodes, Anakin is able to pop a helmet/oxygen supply on his outfit and survive in space, proving that there's a pressurised bodysuit beneath. Obi-Wan's armour - in both the full form he uses on Muunilist in the microseries and in the reduced form he wears between S1 and S3 - retains the clone trooper bodysuit so it should have similar abilities. If the regular robes worn by Anakin and Obi-Wan now are the same as what they wore in ROTS, then it probably isn't much more than fabric.

    Granted, I did not appreciate the way Obi-Wan and Anakin kept on wearing their armour away from the frontlines, often while sitting on the Jedi Council in the former's case (unique character model rendering costs my arse; Padme got a throwaway costume once every other episode). However, it's disappointing that we don't see much Jedi armour beyond the ubiquitous clone gauntlets with Open Circle Armada insignias nowadays. I would have liked to have seen Adi Gallia in a set of armour plates, for example. The Jedi armour design was a very good combination of clone, Vader and PT Jedi design elements. The concept of Jedi armour offered a lot of scope for interesting and innovative designs...

    ... like female Jedi attires which are a bit less gratuitously scant than those worn by Mses. Secura and Tano.

    [IMG]
    Last edited by QuangoFett, Jan 1, 2013
  18. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    @QuangoFett

    On the subject of the Jedi not changing out of their armor even when not on a battlefield, only the senators seem to be able to afford more than one outfit.

    Back to the armor. I see what you're saying about shrapnel, and that's fine for the clones, because the clones have always been depicted wearing armor.

    But introducing armor to the Jedi is weird because the Jedi were never depicted as wearing armor in the films. So it just raises the question as to why do the Jedi start to wear armor? The obvious answer is that the Jedi feel they need some kind of additional protection in war time. But then that in turn raises the questions as to why half way through the war they just decided that they didn't need armor anymore?

    It had to be inhibiting them in someway or not proving to be useful, or all of the Jedi wouldn't just simultaneously stop using it.
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  19. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    Which video game was it where Jedi could not wear heavy body armor? KotOR maybe?
  20. Narutakikun Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    star 4
    I'm still not sure where this reflexive armor fetish came from. Again, it's often more trouble than it's worth. For example, Australian soldiers in Vietnam rarely wore the steel helmets that their American comrades in arms did because they felt that the extra weight and the reduced visibility that the helmets saddled them with simply weren't worth the extra protection they provided. They mostly just humped the boonies in slouch hats, and it suited them fine.
    Last edited by Narutakikun, Jan 1, 2013
  21. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    In KOTOR the Jedi could wear any kind of armor, it was just that if they wore anything by Jedi robes or other specific clothes, then they would not be able to use certain Force powers and would be playing at a disadvantage.

    In TOR, it's the opposite Jedi Knights do wear armor and are at a disadvantage if they don't.
  22. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    The Mongolians destroyed heavily armored forces across Europe wearing very light armor.

    Thats what I'm thinking of then. It does make some sense. How could a Jedi use a speed burst if they are dressed in Dark Trooper armor?
    Last edited by Robimus, Jan 1, 2013
  23. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    In KOTOR they can wear it, but it prevents the use of certain Force powers, such as Speed IIRC.

    Ninja'd by TaradosGon.
    Last edited by CT-867-5309, Jan 1, 2013
  24. QuangoFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2011
    star 4
    @TaradosGon

    Why the Jedi started wearing armour and then stopped?

    IU answer: They feel the need to protect themselves from battlefield hazards to begin with, which is understandable, considering how unconfident in their martial abilities they must collectively feel in the immediate aftermath of the Battle of Geonosis; then they rapidly gain confidence in their ability to avoid hazards as they transition from a peacekeeping to a war footing, thus making the armour redundant.

    OOU answer: Lucasfilm Animation liked some of the microseries' Jedi armour designs so they decided to garb Anakin and Obi-Wan in something clone/Vader-ish, before they realised the need to push ahead to the end of the war and so introduced the ROTS robes in order to mark a time shift.
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  25. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
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    Since the introduction of the German Stahlhelm saw a significant increase in survivability in WW1.

    Since casualties from shrapnel significantly decreased after the widespread allocation of the flak jacket to standard infantry in Vietnam.

    Etc, etc, etc. Armor saves lives, even though it also encumbers. I'm not a huge fan of it myself in terms of fiction, but the numbers seem to back it up.
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