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Lit Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Le_Sammler, Jul 10, 2005.

  1. spicer

    spicer Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2012
    I am really tired of the DotJ hate it sometime gets, and I feel like a broken record repeating this - stop evaluating DotJ like it was an ongoing that had sufficient time to develop and wrap up, because it didn't. It never got the chance to reach it's full potential.
     
  2. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    ...that's not what Jeff was doing, though. The criticism that Republic/Legacy/DotJ were all kind of the same central arc repeated isn't really affected by the series being cut extremely short (and on that note, it's probably significant how very few people around here list Cade as their favorite part of Legacy).
     
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  3. Stymi

    Stymi Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2002
    GOT is a good example of that point. Great show. Big fan (can't wait for tomorrow!). But I have felt the characterization and story has suffered this season as the show has been forced to address plot demands as quickly as possible.

    Similar things happened with Legacy: War and KOTOR: War.

    Knight Errant was another victim of this format change.

    And when DH seemed to realize this format wasn't working (story-wise or commercially), the gave us the ongoing Star Wood. That was just terrible, as most of Wood's work is.

    I know lots of people loved what DH did with SW. I did as well. KOTOR is one of my all time favorite books period. But they were really floundering for a long time, with a few hits here and there.

    Sent from Moto X-Wing
     
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  4. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    It didn't. But even on its own terms, it just wasn't very good. The main characters were all super bland and the story was generic. Even if you leave off the last arc and just look at the first two stories, it was a case of creating a really interesting setting and then doing nothing very interesting with it.
     
  5. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    My biggest problem with DotJ is that, unlike TotJ, nearly everything in it looked and/or feelt like it belonged to TOR- or Movies-era GFFA.

    That the not-Jedi (with all the Jedi's powers and then some) quickly got their hands on not-lightsabres and all begun to used them instead of their swords did not help.
     
  6. Jeff_Ferguson

    Jeff_Ferguson Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 15, 2006
    Dawn of the Jedi isn't the one that got away. It's not the Firefly of the old EU. It wasn't a great series with a lot of potential that got canceled too soon. Thematically, visually, plotwise, characterwise, it was all stuff we had seen before, right from Day 1. The whole "origins of the Jedi" setting was the only thing that prevented readers from realizing how much of a Legacy clone it was. There were some cool and original ideas lurking there --- the mystery of the Tho Yor, the moons of Ashla and Bogan --- but they wouldn't have been enough to set the story apart when Ostrander and Duursema seemed so set on hitting all of their usual beats. The idea was ambitious but the execution was lacking.
     
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  7. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    No, that's Rebellion. Poor, unmourned Rebellion.

    And Agent of the Empire.
     
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  8. The Positive Fan

    The Positive Fan Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2015
    For clarity it ought to be noted that Tython is canon - but because of its mention in the canon version of Complete Locations, not because of its mention in the Force Awakens Beginner Game.
     
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  9. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001

    Yeah, I suspect the person who wrote that was a) not an owner or player of the three other roleplaying games, and b) mistaken about FFG and canonicity. The latter is an easy mistake to make, and the first is obviously an assumption because they could have just missed the fact it's in other, pre-TFABG sets.
     
  10. Daneira

    Daneira Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2016
    The "Imperial family" article has Niobi has the mother of Triclops. The Triclops article implies his mother is Sly Moore. The Sly Moore article implies she gave birth to Triclops. The Niobi article has Niobi has the mother of Trioculus, and the Trioculus article says Niobi is his mother.

    This is a huge inconsistency.
     
  11. LelalMekha

    LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2012
    The "Imperial family" article is not up to date. Remember that initially, there were hints that Niobi was the mother of Triclops, but it was later changed to Trioculus. (To make a log story short.) I'll fix this.
     
  12. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
  13. LelalMekha

    LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2012
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  14. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    I've just gotten the Poe Dameron: Flight Log book, and there are a lot of details in it that don't seem to have made it to Wookieepedia yet - ship dimensions other than just length, atmospheric speeds, "speed in space, in G" (by implication, acceleration - we know that other newcanon sources have provided accelerations in G, at least), and so forth.

    Given that the current T-70 page only gives "faster than the T-65" these sort of details may be worth including. Sometimes the length/width/height details are in the wrong order - but by cross-referencing to other sources, you can usually work out what they're supposed to correspond to. Dimensions, factoids etc. that haven't appeared on Wookieepedia's canon pages before as far as I can tell, I've underlined.


    Z-95 Headhunter (illustration - TCW version):
    XoLynn 9771 Deflector Shield Generator
    Incom 2a Fission Engines
    Maneuvering jets
    Krupx MG5 Concussion Missile Launchers (x2)
    ANS-5c Sensor Unit (in the nose cone)
    Taim & Bak KX5 Linked Laser Cannons "blaster cannons" x2
    1 ion cannon
    Consumables - 1 week supply
    Hyperdrive - Optional
    Length: 16.74m
    Width 18.12m
    Height 3.24m

    Max Speed/acceleration: Space: 2,780 G
    Max Speed: Atmosphere: 1,150 kph
    Apparently the generic Headhunter page has most of these details - but not the Clone Starfighter page, which was the one I was looking at. Given that the illustrations are always of the two-engined TCW Clone Starfighters rather than the 4-engined "Star Wars Commander" Headhunters, I think it would make sense to apply the above details to the Clone Starfighter.

    T-70 X-Wing
    Consumables - 2 day supply
    Max Speed/acceleration: Space: 3,800 G
    Max Speed: Atmosphere: 1,100 kph
    Length: 12.48m
    Width 11.56m
    Height 73m (misprint)
    Hyperdrive: Class 1
    RZ-1 A-wing Interceptor
    Shows a ROTJ A-Wing, and it has a shield generator labelled. Maybe it was only the armor that was stripped off?
    Consumables - 1 week supply
    Length: 9.6m
    Width 6.48m
    Height 3.11m
    Max Speed/acceleration: Space: 5,100 G
    Hyperdrive: Class 1
    Atmospheric Assault Lander
    Consumables - 3-day supply for two trooper squads
    Length: 18.05m
    Width 6.3m
    Height 6.05m (oddly Wookieepedia claims this book gives 3.72m - but that's not what I am getting when I read it)
    Max Speed/acceleration: Space: 1,900 G
    SF TIE Fighter
    Consumables - 1 week supply
    Length: 6.69m
    Width: 6.34m
    Height: 8.17m
    Max Speed: Atmosphere: 1,200 kph
    Max Speed/acceleration: Space: 4,100 G
    Hyperdrive: Class 3
     
  15. LelalMekha

    LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2012
    Good to know. I never managed to find a copy of the Flight Log, and I don't think many Wookieepedians have. I'll work on all that tomorrow.
     
  16. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    I notice that the Legends page for regular TIEs seems to have reverted to the old WEG figures. Shouldn't the Databank's last figure - 8.99m long - which was introduced shortly before the big Legends announcement - be what they use?

    After all, it was around that time that the X-WIng Miniatures game came out - with TIEs that (when scaled up using the 1/270 scale) would correspond to that size. And the rulebook made a point of saying they'd gone right back to the original ANH models, to get those figures.
     
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  17. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
  18. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Maybe not, for the later ones. But at the time the game came out, 1/270 was the intended size. Thus, it's plausible that they designed the TIE models at the same time the TIEs got revised upward from 6.3m to 8.99m.

    The 7.24 m in the above table, is post-Rogue One. Using the 8.99m pre-Rogue One figure, the scale becomes 1/270. Same, for that matter, with the A-Wing - using the "official" length of 9.6m rather than the "estimated" length of 7m, brings it into line with the other early models.

    A Surprising Twist

    "During the production process, we were surprised to discover that the official dimensions for some of the ships did not match our pre-existing expectations of their relative sizes. Nowhere is our devotion to scale more evident than in our TIE fighter. Through intensive research and close correspondence with Lucasfilm Ltd., we confirmed with no degree of uncertainty the true scales of this iconic Imperial fighter as it appears in the films, even going so far as to study the proportions of the original film models."

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    All they have done is figured out the scale, and it's pre-Rogue One. I don't think you can rely on the FFG minis here.
     
  20. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    The point I'm trying to make, is that Rogue One figures can apply to the "canon-verse" - and pre-Rogue One figures can apply to the Legends-verse.

    And that the last figure being used for TIE Fighter length, prior to Rogue One, wasn't 6.3m, it was 8.99m.

    Hence, the Legends page for TIEs ought to use that figure, rather than the older one.
     
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  21. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    If there's a Wook admin out there, can you PM me? I want to finally be confirmed as (now non-existent) canon. :p
     
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  22. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    For some reason, Wookieepedia has merged the Immobilizer 418 page with the Interdictor Star Destroyer page (based on a tweet) and is using the Immobilizer length of 600m



    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Interdictor-class_Star_Destroyer/Canon

    On The Front Lines being the source for the 600m figure- it has the Rebels boarding a 600m Immobilizer 418 class cruiser.



    Given that 600m is completely incompatible with all Rebels TV Series scenes of Interdictors (at least as incompatible, if not more so, as 8km SSDs were with all movie scenes alongside ISDs)- I think its safe to say that Rebels Interdictors are not the same class and that Matt Martin just misunderstood.

    Especially since the trivia gallery itself makes the point that Rebels interdictors are much larger than 600m Legends ones:

    http://www.starwars.com/tv-shows/star-wars-rebels/stealth-strike-trivia-gallery

    A 600m Rebels Interdictor would have a bridge 161m in diameter (FFG Interdictor model is 160mm long and its bridge 43mm wide. And the Arquitens is approximately as long as the interdictor's bridge is wide.)

    But the canon Arquitens is 325m long, not 161m long.

    Perhaps the pages should be reverted? LelalMekha , what do you think, as a notable Wookieepedian?
     
  23. LelalMekha

    LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2012
    Well, I'll try and build an argumented case against the merge and see what I can do.
     
  24. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    We might get unlucky, with them simply saying "change On The Front Lines length to 1220m" but I hope not.
     
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  25. AV-6R7

    AV-6R7 Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 9, 2014
  26. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    I think Matt Martin needs to reread that Trivia gallery first. And the Heir to the Jedi reference to Immobilizers being replaced with Interdiction-capable Star Destroyers. Then, it ought to be pretty clear to him that either the 600m length needs to be changed, or they need to be redefined as separate classes. One or the other.


    I would prefer separate classes personally. But 1220m no-longer-in-production Immobilizer-418s could work too. But 600m Rebels Immobilizers do not work.