Word Exchange, Descrimination, and Your Work Uniform...

Saint of Killers: The corporate dress code is just another method of turning employees into soulless, easily controlled drones.

ME: As opposed to the Abercrombe dress code?

Saint of Killers: No, substitute "employees" with "teenagers" and it's prett much the same.
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And then I thought the same response. Again, there's plenty of time after work for the "chosen generation" to "be themselves."

 

Guess what! I turn 28 next month and I'm goingt o get a funky hair cut, bleach my tips and then run some PURPLE through my hair.

I know my summer employers don't care (I work at a newspaper, we had a reporter/photographer with screaming RED RED RED RED hair and noone cared).

Maybe I'm too Hip, but I actually think Funky coloured hair is the cat's ass. it looks cool, and I'm in Graphic Design so people wth funky hairdos are actually preferred over corporate drone in many creative circles.

I went into Graphic Design so I don't have to conform to business attire. I cannot work in a suit, I despise ladies fashion. I have a suit in case i have to work with a client, but you know what?

Let's say I'm hiring a designer for a web site. I have 2 people come up to me.

Guy #1 is wearing a suit, dress shoes, clean cut American corporate hair do.

Guy #2: Funky, hip Geek-Chiq, thick rimmed oakley eyeglasses, neat but casual attire, not necessarily a funky colour, but a slightly off the wall hair style (Vintage, retro styles, dreadlocks, can be funky) and some piercings.

I'd choose person #2. I want someone creative, not a corporate shark.

No offence to anyopne here, but the whole corporate america image of business suits really creeps me out. men in business suits creep me out, women in business suits creep me out. I don't know why, but I knopw I'm not comfortable in such a place.

Now, the funky haired girl? She could wear a wig, UI guess, but if the industry is fashion or the arts, I think it's kind of silly to disallow funky hair colours (UNless it's old lady fashion), especially when I can get away with purple hair at a news paper or a web design firm.

The mantra I've been faced with is 'I don't care what colour your hair is, so long as you get your work done'.

But then, I'm just a peace loving hippy 'freak' with three earrings and one set of business attire to my name.


On That note, though, If a company policy says 'No funky colours' I won't dye my hair funky colours. The thing is, was this written in the dress code? If it isn't then, well, I'm afriad the employer really can't fire her for her hair.

 

Well, see, even though I fall into the category of those who dye their hair and don't suits, I will say that now you're discriminating.

I'd hire the best one for the job, whether it be the one who wears a suit or the funky looking one.

Because many people like to wear suits. They love the image. It has nothing to do with being a corporate shark.

When I had my hair green, at times, I'd wear a suit and tie. Why? Because sometimes, even though I don't wear them, I like the feel of a suit.

I'm sorry.

I have to say you're just as bad as the ones who discriminate againts people like us.

Hire the best, whether it be a suit or a funkster.

Clothes and hair and all that junk is a form of expression. Just like to some, wearing the suit is a form of expression. Clothes do not make nor define the man.

 

I do believe in compromise. If I have to be in a certain situation, like an important meeting or a presentation, I will remove my piercings, but then when I'm out of said situation they go back in.


EXACTLY!!

I have body piercings, and a tatoo... none of which were on display when I went job hunting....

And Arty Ewok, I envey you...
I got my degree in design with a strong background in sculpture and life drawing... ANY interview I went to had the uber conservative dress code. I wanted my potential client to see my work, not be distracted by my appaerance.

ANd No, I still don't work in my feild... any position I qualified for went to the person with the portfolio that was more suited to the company...

 

OK.. point taken, SOTT.

Yeah, it's discrimination. I'm bad

I think it all has to do with research, though, if someone was looking for 'funky and outgoing; and you came off as 'conservative and nto so funky' it does have an impression, just as a blue haired chick might have an impression working somewhere like sears.

For design the portfolio comes down to it all, yeah.. Shot down on that one. I guess so long as someone has the style you're looking for in their work, that's what counts.

No, not all people in business suits are sharks, but I guess I've had bad experiences with people in suits and with the corporate ladder and corporate, office dress codes. It's something I have to shake, just like the people who think all people with coloured hair are freaks have to shake. Some of it has to do with a really bad job where there was a definite heirarchy between 'the suits' and everyone else and a very, very, very bad relationship. I also wince when i meet someone called 'Darryl' for the same reason, and I know not all Darryls are bad, i've just happened to come across three who have been nasty. I've met some very nice people in business suits, so I guess I had a bad example.

Nyargh. Foot in mouth, my apologies.

I do dress relatively conservatively for interviews, and I'm not looking for an office that lets people wear flip flops.. I guess I want a job that requires middle ground. I think I've been lucky so far. I will compromise, but a compromise means Cargo pants and polished doc martins and a neat shirt, not women's dress suit and shoes that don't fit my wide feet.

Shutting up now.

 

I'm not saying you're bad, Arty!

Not at all!

Just saying that the clothes don't make the man. I've met some pretty funky and outgoing people who wear suits.

And I've met people with blue hair and the artsy clothes who are some of the dullest people around.

Of course you've had bad moments with suits, considering the majority still wear suits.

So of course, you run into bad apples.

I don't like sharks neither. But I see a difference between sharks and just a guy who is more old fashioned.

 

DM: Don't your "anti-social" and "attention-grabbing" arguments kind of cancel each other out? Maybe you should consider picking one and sticking with it...

 

Out of curiousity...

DM, do you have a problem with guys that have long hair?

And what about Japenese people? I've noticed that ALOT of young Japenese people like to colour their hair.

Why is there anything wrong with this? I don't understand your view on this at all, and i would like to. Is it not simply people trying to experiment and have fun with their look while they're young? People wanting to express their individuality?

Why do young people have to worry about looking professional? Is there any other "look" from people you find unnacceptable or is it just hair colour?

 

Not just youngins.

Dm's my age and I color my hair from time to time.

Hell, at my former university one of my instructors and she was also one of the department heads, died her hair either orange or green and she came in wearing her funky clothes all the time.

 

I don't have a problem with any type of hair per se in terms of your right to wear it the way that you wish even if you look absurd. It's indeed an oxymoron with radical hair styles - the very people who are doing it to be 'individualistic' really are nothing more than utilizing 'attention-seeking' behaviors. It is indeed a contradiction in terms, but not on my part.

However, in terms of this discussion on job professionalism, I think my arguments remain applicable. Your appearance is directly related to how you are received in the business world. If you look like a clown, people are going to think of you as a clown and not really worthy of professional consideration. That's a fact of life, one that I didn't make up.

Society expects one to be an upstanding individual if there are professional services rendered. If you appear that you can't even manage your appearance in a proper fashion, how do you think society is going to react to you? You won't be well recepted, and you can't blame society for that. There are societal norms in all human culutres, and the business world is the most important of these in capitalist/free-market society. Society allows free expression as such to wear your hair in a peculiar fasion but it doesn't allow for rewards for stupid behavior. You can do it, but don't expect to be widely respected or recognized professionally if you look like a clown.

 

If you look like a clown, people are going to think of you as a clown and not really worthy of professional consideration. That's a fact of life, one that I didn't make up.


What if people look past appearance and only consider actual performance?

 

Appearance is directly related to professionalism, KW.

 

You didn't answer my question.

I'm more interested in performance than I am in appearance (when I view others).

What if people disregard appearance (or place it as a lower priority) and focus mostly or entirely on performance?

 

It's easy to understand, KW.

Are you interested in seeing a surgeon, lawyer, nurse or dentist with blue hair and body piercings all over or several on their face, or would you prefer a more professional appearance? Do most professional companies that sell goods and services want people of such character and appearance representing their business?

The simple fact remains that professionalism is directly related to appearance.

 

I could care less about the appearance if the performance was up to standards (or above it). If someone with that appearance was in a doctor's office, it would stand to reason that they had to go through medical school to obtain a medical degree, along with having a license to practice medicine. These things are not given out without some effort involved.

 

You keep stating it's attention seeking behavior as if it were fact.

I don't do it to seek attention. I just like the way it looks, plain and simple. And this day and age, it hardly seeks attention as it's dime a dozen.

Get off the high horse, dude.

 

You're not going to get through med school with blue hair, nor law school, nor nursing school, nor dental school. They wouldn't allow it.

I wouldn't say I'm on the 'high horse'. I'm merely in agreement with the vast majority of society and the standards of professionalism that apply in the real world.

Like I said, it is your right to look like a clown. Don't expect to get hired on a professional postion or for people to look at you as a professional. I don't see many bona fide professionals behaving in such an immature fashion. Society rewards good behavior, good performance, and professional appearance. If you don't fit in all of those, the odds are you won't be considered anything other than a clown with colored hair.

 

You're not going to get through med school with blue hair. They wouldn't allow it.

Having blue hair in the office doesn't mean they went through medical school with blue hair. It just means that they went through medical school.

In my personal opinion, society places too much emphasis on appearance, to the detriment of a focus on performance. I think people spend too much time worrying about how they look, and how others look, and not enough time being concerned with the work they and others are doing.

If you can do the job right, that's what matters. If you can't, get out of the field, no matter how good you look.

 

Of course I agree with you in terms of work performance, that is not what is in dispute here.

Professional appearance is what is at the heart of this discussion. There are standards of professionalism that apply to one's appearance that are not compatable with radical displays of 'fashion'. Professionalism entails looking, acting, and practicing like a professional.

 

There are standards of professionalism that apply to one's appearance that are not compatable with radical displays of 'fashion'

And where do those standards come from?

 

C'mon, KW. You know the answer to that.

 

I'd rather not put words in your mouth or guess at your ideas. Giving clarification would be helpful.

 

Let me ask you then KW, since you already know what the standards of society are in terms of professional appearance:

What is your idea of a professional appearance? Should professional appearance be an integral part of being a professional? Should people be allowed to wear or do whatever they want in professional postions in terms of fashion, however radical?

 

However, in terms of this discussion on job professionalism, I think my arguments remain applicable. Your appearance is directly related to how you are received in the business world. If you look like a clown, people are going to think of you as a clown and not really worthy of professional consideration. That's a fact of life, one that I didn't make up.

Society expects one to be an upstanding individual if there are professional services rendered. If you appear that you can't even manage your appearance in a proper fashion, how do you think society is going to react to you? You won't be well recepted, and you can't blame society for that. There are societal norms in all human cultres, and the business world is the most important of these in capitalist/free-market society. Society allows free expression as such to wear your hair in a peculiar fasion but it doesn't allow for rewards for stupid behavior. You can do it, but don't expect to be widely respected or recognized professionally if you look like a clown.

[voice_Shmi]I might not like it but...[/voice_Shmi] agreed.

 

What is your idea of a professional appearance? Should professional appearance be an integral part of being a professional? Should people be allowed to wear or do whatever they want in professional postions in terms of fashion, however radical?

That depends on your definition of "professional". Uniforms have their place, and they sometimes have positive psychological effects for the people wearing them (and the companies or organizations using them). I'm not against a "professional appearance" or uniforms, but rather the negative judgments of people who don't fit society's standards, and choose a different path (regardless of their abilities, knowledge or performance).

My point is simply that we shouldn't base so much opinion on appearance, and should instead focus more on performance and how a person acts.