Discussion in 'Scifi 3D Forum' started by Corrin_Wyndryder, Mar 23, 2004.
Is that done with 3DS Max? Is it in the help file?
completely done in 3ds max, a good tut for radiosity, is the gallery one, try searching for gallery in the tuts with the program.
Hard to see you used Mental ray. you have to learn it before using it. Mental ray it to make realistic lighting, and yours looks fake. Sorry to tell you, but your pic looks like you didn't even work on lighting and just puc one single light, with no shadow.
mental ray doesnt do that good lighting, its just easier to pick up and use, you cant even use half the photmetric lights in it properly. mental ray is mainly good for some preset textures like glass and water etc.
Well obviously... you are an ubern00b Only-One-Tea-Cozy. The thought that MR is only good for preset materials is hands down the most absurd statement that I have ever heard in any forum anywhere. Do yourself a favor and educate yourself, before you make such nonsensical statements... good lord man MR is only the second most widely used renderer in the film industry. In fact it's usage in broadcast media makes it the most widely used, professional render to available today. Have you ever seen anything made by ILM? A great many of their renders come straight out of a MR pipeline. Why don't you just take a look at some of the films that used MR. [link=http://www.mentalimages.com/4_1_motion_pictures/index.html]Here's[/link] a link for you.
Corrin... Dr.J is right... you will need to add more lights to achieve a proper ambiance. You also will need to microbevel all of those sharp edges to get some decent specular highlights to populate the room.
Another thing you may want to try is toying with GI to supplement the FG... it can make things look worse, but if you learn to use it well enough it can really improve a scene...
There is a dirtmap shader for MR & XSI that could potentially benefit you, but I have no idea if it can be ported to Max.
Don't let the uninformed distract you... this scene is going in a good direction. Keep improving those textures, and don't be afraid to expiriment...
Ok maybe i should have put that differntly, for the average amatuer, with only one computer to render one, MR is practically useless.
sure they use mr in ilm etc, but they have a farm of renderer, so they can spend days doing what would take us weeks, the point i really wanted to make is that soemone making a fan movie probly shouldnt go useing mental ray as when they go doing motion shots they are gonna be renderign for days. the default renderer is much more practical in his situation. especially if the type of shot he is doing (like that one) isn't very organic, the default scanline renderer is more than adequate for doing plastic/metal surfaces.
ps forgive spelling, its late.
On the topic of reflectivity and different reflectivity on one suface (from the other thread [same topic])
heres a quick thing i did to show what sort of look you can get, i know its fast but here it is anyway.
Well, I do have access to a renderfarm at my school, and that's where I've got permission to do this fanfilm.
As for the 8 MR lights in my scene, what do you suggest I do with them?
EDIT: Additionally, I'm pretty much the best 3D artist at my school, so I get nothing but Ooohs and Ahhhs, but no feed back on how it can improve.
So, next stop. Mental Ray tutorial help files.
My problem is not knowing what to adjust to get the results I want. The technical manual is too techincal, has NO tutorials, and is difficult to navigate at best.
I know it looks fake, and I'm trying to make it look real, but I'm in the dark as far as where to go from here.
I hear you man. Learning MR and XSI's render tree has been one of the most daunting elements of my 3D education, but also one of the most enjoyable. It has all been a matter of trial and error. I don't know how Max has integrated MR, so my ability to help guide you through the chaotic darkness into the light is kind of limited.
First off, I don't completely understand it all, as I'm still very much in the learning process myself.
Secondly, very few people have had much experience w/ MR and Max, since the integration was just released in R6. Eventually there will be some innovators who figure it out (likely w/ some help from the Maya/XSI/MI communities) who will start putting together some tuts.
If you choose to, you can spend your time going through the trial & error... perhaps even becoming one of the "innovators" w/ Max.
Alternatively you can do as Cup'o'tea suggests and just use the magic of the default scanline renderer to get fantastic results .
I wouldn't touch VRay or Brazil for animation purposes, but that is an option for you as well.
MR is going to give you the best results (next to Renderman, but good luck w/ that), but gonna "cost" you the most. Perhaps spending some time w/ XSI's Exp2 or Maya's PLE you can learn some of the basics of MR and how it is used and integrated in those apps... then port that knowlege into Max, I dunno.
As for the lights in your scene... perhaps you could post a captured OGL Wireframe to show us the light rig... Without seeing where your lights are positioned, I can't offer much advice... Maybe also divulging the individual light and FG Settings.
LOL, it's been a long day, sorry if I am rambling.
My experience with this is the problem with MR isn't the software but the user. Same with Brazil, Final Render, etc. Like anything else... it's not something you can just click on and it'll pump out great results. It can actually be worse using these than with scanline if you don't know what you're doing. I think... the more low-end a GI-renderer is the more you have to play with the settings to get it right. BUT the point is no matter what you use, and like with everything else, you have to develop a level of proficiency to use it. 1.5 hours is just ridiculous. There's no reason why you can't do that with scanline. My best advice would be to forget about using a GI-renderer for now... it's not a magic bullet... and learn normal lighting methods. There are tons and tons of tutorials on how to do this all over the net... and produce almost photoreal results with scanline. Just check out 3Dtotal or something.
^^ what he said.
Also one thing ive found can look nice when useing mental ray is not to do too high detial with the final gather etc, sometimes (and i stress sometimes) it can look really cool to have the "patchy" effect that it makes.
On the topic of renderman, is there anyway to use this with 3ds, like withought export etc, has anyone made a plugin? i guess it would be mass $$$.
Well, I've got the settings now so it's about 10 minutes to do a smaller version.
But Max 6 with MR is what I'm working with, and I need to learn how to do it right. As soon as I can, I'll get a shot showing the lighting scheme.
Pretty much, there's 8 mrSpot Lights. A light one over each door, then another big one for the ceiling light in the back, all aiming pretty much down.
try using area lights instead of spots, they are a bit harder to setup on MR and take a bit longer, but for strip lights they look v nice.
I'm working on the little things right now. Playing around with the lights, mixing and matching settings.
In the first render at the top of the page, I had one Omni and one Spot for each door, and a spot for the ceiling, and I simply used the basic scanline renderer.
Here's another update:
Your lighting isn't being projected correctly. Since the lights in the doorways are arrayed around the sides, the light spilling out from those doorways shouldn't cut off like it does. Whereas your lighting looks like it's coming from the room behind the door, and thus is obscured by the corners of the doorway, it should spread out with a much wider angle across the floor.
You realize, of course, that the progection on the floor infront of each door is from the ceiling light, which is brighter than the ambient light surrounding the doorway itself. That'll be more obvious when I add the glows to the lights.