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World Trade Organisation - protests

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Lord_Riven, Nov 14, 2002.

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  1. Lord_Riven

    Lord_Riven Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 13, 2001
    With the WTO meeting in Sydney, I read in the newspaper this morning that the WTO protesters cost the Australian government $5 million AUD to control. That in my opinion is a big waste of taxpayer money that can be spent better elsewhere - such as on relieving the drought and on victims of the Bali Attack - rather it is wasted on preventing environmentalists and professional protesters from running amok - and these people should not be here in the first place.

    What do you think?
     
  2. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    Well, we don't actually have a legally protected freedom of speech, so in a way, they're not entitled to say what they want. They do have a legal right to peacefully assemble though.
    IMO, if they want to protest WTO policies, organising these events only marginalises them as radicals. Which may be what they want.

    E_S
     
  3. Lordban

    Lordban Isildur's Bane star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2000
    Ironically, it's the very globalization they protest against that brings them the mass-media coverage they seek when they protest.
     
  4. MarvinTheMartian

    MarvinTheMartian Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 31, 2002
    Yes, it is a total waste of money. Unfortunately, these people lack one thing that make them different to normal people: A brain. They have not got a clue. They are mindless drones who go to Sydney in busloads, trash some things, scream at the cameras, and then afterwards bitch about how opressive the police were.

    It is a cycle which repeats itself at all of these meetings.

    Ender_Sai: I propose a Freedom of Speech clause in our Consitution. That would make an appropriate preamble in my opinion! Then we can give people the right to 'peacefully assemble', which will ensure that there is less trouble (Of course, then they will start saying the government is trying to silence them. Blah Blah Blah.)

    They are radicals. They run around amok preaching something or another, and usually failing too, while the entire world see them for what they are: EEJITS!
     
  5. DarthKarde

    DarthKarde Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2002
    The worse part of the protests is that those people who have genuine and reasonable complaints about how globalisation works don't get a chance to protest in a sensible way as the morons grab all the attention.
     
  6. Lordban

    Lordban Isildur's Bane star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2000
    Very true... [face_plain]
     
  7. Falcon

    Falcon Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 7, 2002
    good point. I agree on the statements.
     
  8. Lordban

    Lordban Isildur's Bane star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2000
    Good to see you here, JF ;)
     
  9. Falcon

    Falcon Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Thanks Ban :) it's good to see you too
     
  10. Jedi_Xen

    Jedi_Xen Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 26, 2001
    People protest just to protest, even if they dont know what they're protesting. At least it sometimes seems that way.

    Anybody remember the Simpsons episode where Lisa wins a contest to Washington DC and in front of the white house protesters are carrying signs like "Everything is fine" and "Can't complain". Hence the majority of your protesters ;)
     
  11. Darth Fierce

    Darth Fierce Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 6, 2000
    These people recently protested the WTO here in Chicago.

    Their mornings began by stopping en masse at Starbucks for coffee, followed by making copies of their posters at Kinko's, and then marching the streets in Nike shoes.
     
  12. Jedi_Xen

    Jedi_Xen Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 26, 2001
    Their mornings began by stopping en masse at Starbucks for coffee, followed by making copies of their posters at Kinko's, and then marching the streets in Nike shoes

    *LOL* Sounds like some wealthy Arab's who hate western technology so much after drivng in their automobile after a hard days work at an oil rig, they come home and email thier buddies to complain. :D
     
  13. Darth_Drunk

    Darth_Drunk Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 16, 2002
    We here in the Evil Empire guarentee Freedom of Speech.

    Anywho, anybody remember the WTO protests in Seatle a few years ago? A bunch of protesters rioted and they try to play it as "The Battle of Seatle". I'm sorry, but picking up a park bench and chucking it through a window at McDonald's and then lighting some poor innocent person's car isn't a battle, it is a riot.

    Then, last year, a bunch of protestors tried to choke up MidTown Manhattan for a protest. This is a few weeks after 9/11 and the NYPD is hurting, tired, overworked, and generally pissed off. What do these little ****os do? Start chucking their plastic shields at the cop guarding them and calling them "stormtoopers" and "pigs" and the whole spleel.
     
  14. DarthKarde

    DarthKarde Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2002
    I think that the Canadians had the right idea when the held one of these summits at a remote resort in the rocky mountains. It's time that we stop giving these thugs a chance to do so much damage and waste so much police time.
     
  15. SCOTSSITHLORD

    SCOTSSITHLORD Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    I completely agree, all of these beatniks are moaning about nothing, don't they realise that free speech means just that, you can say what you like, but don't dare do anything about it.
    I'd shoot them, but I'm reluctant to be labelled as a liberal, so I suggest they're merely maimed. The Aussie police should have plenty of practice from their brutal treatment of the aborigines, with a little training they'll learn to hit folk with white skin as well.
    For all of the whining about the WTO protests the fact remains that a protestor was assassinated in cold blood in Genoa, at close range by fascistic police officers, how many "brave" police officers, armed to the teeth, have ever been seriously injured.
    These protests are yet another example of the world turned upside down. The vast majority of violent conduct is carried out by the agents of law and order and yet the press try their hardest to distort the base statistics to suit a conservative agenda, a la the poll tax riots in Britain.
    Judging by the smug, misinformed rubbish of many of the contributors to this thread may I make the bold suggestion that they've never ever been on a political demo. As a veteran of such rallies I've witnessed entirely peaceful and very disruptive rallies and the key factor in both was the attitude of the police, and that's not the half of it. Anyone who seriously believes that any serious political demo isn't riddled with police officers is so naive they should stick to reading Enid Blyton. At EVERY demo I've attended in London there has been trouble and on each and every occasion it has been a fifty/fifty mix between tiny groups on the fringe of the meeting and undercover police who have wilfully incited trouble in order to arrest a few drunken hot-heads.
     
  16. Red-Seven

    Red-Seven Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 21, 1999
    Good point about the police making all of the difference in the world. That's very true.


    But, in counter, I would point out that these anti-WTO protests have a consistent track record for violence and thuggery stretching across nations and years, now. It is a little too consistent to blame wholly on the authorities.

    Actually, wasn't the NY meeting a bit quieter than the rest?
     
  17. DARTHPIGFEET

    DARTHPIGFEET Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 24, 2001
    5 million is rediculous. The authorities need to send out the following public service announcement for everyone.

    "Any protesters who show up will be arrested on the spot with not questions asked."

    That doesn't cost 5 million dollars. Those people don't need to be starting any crap down there. That would be a perfect target for a terrorist act, and that might be why they are spending 5 million, but those people who have a habit of starting and inciting violence need to be arrested before a protest even starts. Again anyone who might be a terrorist might find cover within chaos to conduct something bad. So maybe they should spend more money in protecting everyone in that area, but those protesters have no business being there.
     
  18. jediguy

    jediguy Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2000
    Even better is to read all the comments about the "facist police" on Indymedia.

    *sigh*
     
  19. Rogue_Product

    Rogue_Product Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Most of the protestors at the WTO organised protests are just those who are there for the "trendy" factor. Mostly, bored uni students looking for a talking point and an opportunity to hit police. The costs involved are ludicrous because the police ask for constant pay rises (to which they are entitled IMO) and get paid more for these organised events. However, compared to similar events in Europe, I imagine the costs to be miniscule.

    E_S, I know that to which you are referring, but it wouldn't hold up in court and no government would be crazy enough to challenge it. Protesting is a right as people cannot (under the constitution) be persecuted based upon race, religion or political belief (also, the anti-discimination acts of recent years). So, we do have a right to protest as the govt must respect political belief. This doesn't mean that the idiots who are there to cause trouble shouldn't be arrested.

    I just pity those genuine protestors who have decent ideas and concepts who are overriden. Whilst those protesting are after media attention, they try to focus upon the world leaders, who are ignoring them due to the violent nature of the protests. It's an unfortunately vicious cycle...
     
  20. MarvinTheMartian

    MarvinTheMartian Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 31, 2002
    SCOTSSITHLORD, is it possible for some to be more ignorant, or have a post filled with more crap, compared to what you wrote??

    The Aussie police should have plenty of practice from their brutal treatment of the aborigines, with a little training they'll learn to hit folk with white skin as well.

    Hmm. All I can say to this, is stick to fan-fiction. I know a lot of police officers, and they are the most decent people I know. Your generalisations about the Australian Police being racist are completely false, you liar.

    For all of the whining about the WTO protests the fact remains that a protestor was assassinated in cold blood in Genoa, at close range by fascistic police officers, how many "brave" police officers, armed to the teeth, have ever been seriously injured.

    What, exactly, are the police supposed to do when violent mobs are destroying a city? Stand there, and whistle the theme to 'The Wizard of Oz'???

    These protests are yet another example of the world turned upside down. The vast majority of violent conduct is carried out by the agents of law and order and yet the press try their hardest to distort the base statistics to suit a conservative agenda, a la the poll tax riots in Britain.


    Umm...yeah, right. I was recently at a function at my University where the Australian PM John Howard was present, and protestors were present. To their credit, about 200 protestors were not engaging in any violant behaviour, and that is what they SHOULD be doing, and they were ignored by the police. However, about 50 were exremely violant. In the interests of protecting the PM, the police acted appropriately and arrested them.

    Judging by the smug, misinformed rubbish of many of the contributors to this thread may I make the bold suggestion that they've never ever been on a political demo.

    Ahh yes, the same left wing cry: You don't with me, so you are ignorant!

    What we have seen in Sydney is typical of all protests: protestors claim the protest will be peaceful, the protest is NOT peaceful, the police arrest people, the protestors claim they are being opressed by the police.

    Here is some advice:

    GET A JOB!!!!
     
  21. Lordban

    Lordban Isildur's Bane star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2000
    Scotssithlord, 15 of my country's "armed to the teeth" policemen have been killed so far this year. In the performing of their fascistic job over the same year, 2 people were killed.
     
  22. Lord_Riven

    Lord_Riven Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 13, 2001
    There are reports of professional protesters at the latest protests. What do you think of these people.

    I think that they are a bunch if self-centered b****** and b****** who just want to ruin life for ordinary people and even protesters who actually have something constructive to say.
     
  23. TheScarletBanner

    TheScarletBanner Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 19, 2002
    SCOTSSITHLORD, is it possible for some to be more ignorant, or have a post filled with more crap, compared to what you wrote??

    Nice way to start off, Marvin. A flame in the opening sentence of a post rarely does much for its credibility.

    Hmm. All I can say to this, is stick to fan-fiction. I know a lot of police officers, and they are the most decent people I know. Your generalisations about the Australian Police being racist are completely false, you liar.

    Oh, your encounter with a few PO's makes them ALL good, right? Right. I see the logic there. Actually, there have been innumerable reports of institutional racism amongst the Australian police for years, particularly directed against aborignes. It is not false, and I again say that flaming him by calling him a liar reduces the credibility of your argument.

    What, exactly, are the police supposed to do when violent mobs are destroying a city? Stand there, and whistle the theme to 'The Wizard of Oz'???

    Well, your sarcastic joke could have come straight from a cereal box. Very witty. However, police have a duty to restrain protesters from causing property damage - summary execution is not restraining, as was carried out on that protestor. No instance of a policeperson killing a protester is justified, irregardless of what that protestor was doing.

    There are also many instances of agent provocateurs amongst the protestors, either from the authorities or fringe groups with their own agendas. In a lot of cases, violence in a protest does not come about as a result of the protestors, but aggressiveness from the authorities and extremist groups hijacking it.

    a la the poll tax riots in Britain.

    I know. I've seen real footage and spoken to people who were in the square when the police charged, unprovoked. There was something akin to a conspiracy between the media and government to paint the protestors as anarchists and hooligans.

    To their credit, about 200 protestors were not engaging in any violant behaviour, and that is what they SHOULD be doing, and they were ignored by the police.

    Yeah. The police are going to engage in brutal tactics with television cameras and the PM present. *knowing nod*

    However, about 50 were exremely violant.

    It's funny how someone who flames a responsible, moderate poster for being a liar and an idiot can make so many simple spelling and punctuation errors.

    I'd like you to provide some more information on this particular instance if you wish to debate it.

    Ahh yes, the same left wing cry: You don't with me, so you are ignorant!

    Well, apart from the fact I could barely discern what you meant in this sentence, I'd point out that you are making a huge generalisation about the left-wing, there. Furthermore, a member of the right-wing in a protest discussion has NO PLACE insulting the left, wouldn't you think?

    GET A JOB!!!!

    Very mature.

    - Scarlet.
     
  24. TheScarletBanner

    TheScarletBanner Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 19, 2002
    I must say, reading some of the posts on this thread has irritated me, somewhat.

    Having a look at MarvinTheMartian's response to Scotsithlord, I was pretty incredulous that I was the first person to reply to a needlessly nasty riposte bordering on a flame, in order to defend Scotsithlord from entirely unwarranted accusations and insults.

    So, I pose a question: If it had been a left-wingers response, would everyone have kept their silence? Or, as is becoming increasingly obvious, does this forum condone the insulting behaviour of members, as long as they are right-wing? I'd submit that had a left-winger had said the same thing as MtM, a moderator would have had something to say about it, and other members who had looked at the thread, as well.

    This is just something I've noticed in this thread and others - it would seem that right-wingers can do no wrong, where, if a left-winger should say something remotely controversial, he or she is pounced upon.

    - Scarlet.
     
  25. Red-Seven

    Red-Seven Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 21, 1999
    I don't think you are imagining things. I notice it myself, in that I am more likely to respond to the opposite in the political spectrum than to someone closer to my views going 'over the line' (though it would be a mistake to label me 'conservative').

    Anyway, Marvin has received a 24-hour spank. (and yes, I did this before reading your post.) SSL and TSB, let's ignore his flames and move on. No need to propogate a flame war.
     
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