World War II Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Fluke_Groundwalker, Oct 30, 2001.

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  1. TripleB Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 4
    Well, this goes two ways.

    To be sure, there were some really good advantages of developing a fighter bomber to be sure. But if the Messerchmit (sp?) had been unleashed in 1942, it would have seriously hampered the abillity of Allied Bombers to get anywhere near their target. According to Bomber crews, those Jets were too fast for the gun turret crews to shoot down onboard Flying Fortresses. As such, there would have been a HUGE disparity of bombers going down over the Atlantic and over Western Europe.

    To me, though, it was stopping those German agents in 1943 in Eastern Europe who were carrying some of the ingredients they needed for atomic research that really settled the war. If not, it was possible by 1944 or early 45 to have an a bomb ready. Hitler could have strapped the a-bomb onto a V-2 Missle and launched it at London, and wiped it off the planet. The war at that point was all but over, but he by god would have killed Churchill and most of London in the process.
  2. CmdrMitthrawnuruodo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2000
    star 6
    How accurate is "Enemy At The Gates".....says its based on a true story.....
  3. Uruk-hai Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2000
    star 5
    I haven't seen the film so I'm not sure how accurate it is. Antony Beevor's book Stalingrad sort of calls the duel a myth, but there is no denying the characters existed.
  4. Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn The Other Saga Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 1999
    star 6
    I think WWII is the most interesting war, especially in terms of technological advances made by both sides. But I have nothing to add right now. Please do continue!

    I shall watch this thread with great interest...
  5. Admiral_Thrawn60 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2000
    star 6
    I too am watching with great interest. I'm a history buff, and WWII is my favourite.

    //continues lurking
  6. GrandAdmiralPelleaon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 6
    Also what was worse for germany they didn't have a 4 engine bomber, there were plans for one in 1936 (or 38) but then the general who was the main pusher for this plan died under mysterious circumstances( in other words hitler or another high placed Nazi had him killed) so those bombers never came to pass and the battle of england was lost.

    Also the ME 109 was originally planned to be a defence fighter hence it didn't have enough fuel to fly all the way to london and back while protecting the bombers.
  7. Obi Anne FF admin Celebrations, Europe

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 1998
    star 7
    I don't think that Germany would have developed an A-bomb. There were some initial research going on, but it never got enough money to pose a real threat. Hitler was simply not interested enough in it. Over all that was the biggest problem of the German war machine, the money they did have got too scattered around so that they were unable to construct any superweapons. I know you will say that V2 was a superweapon, but how much damage did it really do?
  8. slaveone_2 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2001
    star 5
    Doing modern history in school, World War II was such a broad topic to do. I found the Aerial supremacy and Generals to be the most interesting part in the course.

    Never fight a landwar over Russia :p
  9. Zaz Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 9
    The current conventional wisdom is that the Allied bombing of Germany was a complete failure. Poor old 'Bomber' Harris's reputation is taking the hit. "You can't win a war by bombing!" is the parrot cry. Maybe not; but I think you can interfere with production and affect morale.

    At least we know that Hitler and Napoleon shouldn't have fought a land war in Russia. Do you think there was any way to actually win Barbarossa?

  10. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    If it had started on time I think Moscow would have fallen in 41 before the Reinforcements from the far east arrived.

    Do you think Stalin could have remained in power if Moscow fell?
  11. Ghost_of_Caesar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2000
    star 4
    Well, farraday, Barbarossa did start on time. It had always been planned to start in May 1941. That happened. What held up the advances after 3 months was the need to rest and repair the equipment. Once that was done, the forces targetted on Moscow were held back and their reinforcements sent elsewhere (Leningrad and Kiev). When the offensive finally did recommence in November 1941, the Russians had brought in their reinforcements and shored up Moscow's defences. Had the attack on Moscow gone ahead without any delay or diversion of forces, yes, Barbarossa might very well havce succeeded.

    As for Stalin remaining in power - he, along with the Politburo, never evacuated Moscow. Had the Germans captured Moscow, the political leadership of the Soviet Union would have fallen. That was the best hope towards destroying communism in Russia, not the misguided belief that capturing and razing the namesake cities of Lenin and Stalin as some texts have suggested.
  12. Zaz Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 9
    Russia is a lot of real estate. If Hitler had been smart about it, he might have offered independence to all the ethnic minorities in Russia. Some of them actually welcomed the Nazis as liberators, only to be brutalized by them and reduced to slave labour. That news spread quickly; the rest of Russia knew what was coming.
  13. Bob marley Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 1999
    star 1
    Barbarossa began on the 22nd of June and was about a month behind schedule, mainly because the germans invaded Yugoslavia and greece in early '41. The germans probably would have been able to take Moscow if they had had this extra month of fine weather.
    The taking of the caucasian oil fields and the cutting off of american supplies through murmansk would have significantly helped the germans too.
  14. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    In Russia and Africa I think the Germans might have won if not for resupply difficulties.

    As it was even if Moscow had fallen the Russians might have taken it back, but the fall in morale might well have led to the collapse of Russian resistence.

    Anyways the Germans screwed up behind the lines more often then on the lines.
  15. Ghost_of_Caesar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2000
    star 4
    My bad about the start date for Operation Barbarossa. However, the late start for it was irrelevant. The German Army had still covered massive tracts of territory for neglible losses compared to the Russians. It was the delay after the Wehrmacht stopped to rest and recover that doomed the operation.
  16. Obi Anne FF admin Celebrations, Europe

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 1998
    star 7
    The problem was of course that they couldn't supply their troops, then it doesn't matter if you start earlier or not. The blitzkrieg worked in western Europe where the distances were fairly short and the roads good, it was doomed to fail the deeper into Russia the Germans came.
  17. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    that extra month could have allowed the to resupply for the last thrust on Moscow or Resupply after moscow had fallen bafore Winter set in completely.

    Anyways the troops weren't issued winter gear and they lacked the neccesary type of gasoline(or is it oil) that allows engines to run in really cold weather.

  18. Stalin Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2001
    star 1
    Operation: Barbarossa? What a joke! The glorious Soviet Union was destined to win the Great Patriotic War. Hitler dared to assault the city that bore my name, and I showed him no mercy.
  19. Ghost_of_Caesar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2000
    star 4
    Oh, how curious. Someone using the name of one of the worst mass murderers of the twentieth century. I'm personally quite curious as to how the war might have proceeded had the Germans made use of the propaganda ploy that was Katyn Forest.

    For the uninformed, after the Germans and Russians played tag team on the Poles in 1939, the NKVD (forerunner to the KGB) rounded up and murdered around 10000 officers of the Polish Army, quite likely the biggest war crime perpetrated by an Allied nation during the war. During 1943, the Germans came across some corpses in defrosting snow banks, and commenced excavations.

    At the Nuremberg trials, the Russians tried to blame the Germans for the slaught, however, the victims had been executed using pistols chambered for the standard Soviet pistol round. To cap the story, Mikhail Gorbachev finally admitted that the Red Army was responsible in 1990.

    BTW, I recognise, and agree with the coming argument that this is a drop in the ocean compared with the overall tally of lives lost in the concentration camps. It just adds a little clarity to the brutality that was the Eastern Front of WW2.
  20. Entil`Zha Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 4
    There's a great book titled What If? As the title says, it asks some great questions and tries to answer them, for example, what if Hitler had not invaded the USSR, there's a lot of text in it explaining all the socio-political context of the times, it's a really good book
  21. Stalin Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2001
    star 1
    10,000? LOL! I killed 20,000,000 people. I totally forgot about those!
  22. Entil`Zha Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 4
  23. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    ...

    Moving on.

    The Pacific Campaign, no contest the turning point there was Midway.

    I would have hated to be in a torpedo bomber though.
  24. PatJedi82 Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 4
    Obi Anne, I'm not sure if the Nazi Germany hadn't enough money to develope an A bomb. You can't image how much "Third Reich" money was lying on swiss banks during world war II.
  25. Admiral_Thrawn60 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2000
    star 6
    I agree with farraday. There can be no doubt that Midway was the turning point.

    However, if the carriers had been at Pearl on December 7, there wouldn't have been much of a war, and Seattle, San Fransico, and Los Angeles would all be Japanese ports.
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