WOTC Negotiating for SWCCG Mechanics

Saw this over at Decktech.net

"Decipher and Wizards of the Coast are currently in negotiations for the game mechanics of the SWCCG to be turned over (or licensed) to WOTC. There is currently no agreement and a lot of red tape and legal wrangling that still must go on before this could happen. When it does, and it appears that it will, WOTC will then begin the manufacture and production of the classic SWCCG. There it is in a nut shell. For all those who think that I?m a blithering idiot for saying this at all check back to some of my previous articles and you?ll notice that 8 months before the loss of the license I reported it was going to occur (already had in fact). So take this as what you will, If I?m wrong I?ll eat my words. If not, I?m right again."

Star Wars Today, 7/25/02

Personally... I think that sucks big time. If WOTC wants the license...Lucasfilm ought to give it back to Decipher and be done with it. I don't want to give another dime of my money to Hasbroken if I can help it. Let both companies produce their card games at the same time."

R'Bolt

 

It seems this would be better than no company producing it, if WotC can do the game right without "ruining it" as many have theorized would happen.

It would probably not be good to have two competing companies do SW games at the same time. One company, whether it be Decipher or WotC, would be better able to support both games in unison. And for whatever reason, LFL wanted WotC to do it.

What do you think WotC would do to the game differently than Decipher? I know their reputation with the L5R license, but I am sure they learned from that. When it comes down to it, when Decipher had the License, people were always saying some new aspect "ruined the game" and they were going to sell all their cards and quit. So really nothing done ever satisfies all people.

If you like SW, and you like SWCCG, and WotC can pull it off, does it really matter who you give your money to? This is kinda like a Microsoft/Apple thing. So many people hate the "evil giant", but you have to admit Microsoft makes some good stuff, as does WotC.

All that said, I understand how you may want Decipher to have it back because if the game was that good to start remaking, then why the change to begin with? But that is just the way of things I guess, and it seems to me that anyone that is upset over this latest development would at least think this is better than not having new real cards produced at all, given the fact that it seems that Decipher will not get the license back.

All that said, I wonder if the market can support two games?

I think so as is evidenced by the huge loyal fan base of SWCCG and the almost completely separate growing SWTCG fan base. Maybe 15-20% of the players of each game play both games.

I got into Young Jedi and Jedi Knights for the same reason I got into SWTCG. SWCCG, although fun, was beyond the level of strategy I wanted to play with when I had a few minutes. I personally never wanted to think that much for a game and was always disappointed at tournaments when players that were much more into it and had more time to play always won, because they were like chess masters of SWCCG. However Jedi Knights and Young Jedi just never did anything for me and I stayed with SWCCG due to having nothing else I really liked to play until I pretty much left all 3 games about 2 months before the license announcment.

Along came SWTCG and it was perfect for me. So I think the market can support the two games, but defintely not 3.

 

I just want to note that although I can't confirm or deny such rumors, that DeckTech.net is run by a lot of anti-Decipher sentiments. For months, they spin-doctored a lot of propaganda concerning D losing the licence, and rather tasetelessly I might add. For the last couple years, DT did everything in their power to hit Decipher below the belt, culminating with FreedomCon last year and WOTC-related pop-up ads on their site. They would love to see wotc get D's mechanics.

Basically what I'm saying is, take what you read at DT with a lot of salt. The one true part of his statement is the red tape. And I gotta believe that Decipher would make some pretty strong demands before they released the rights to the game mechanics to wotc. Regardless what anyone says, Decipher is now in the driver's seat.

 

If this is a hoax story, that is just going to far. I would hope Decktech would not knowingly do such a thing, but I am only vaugly familiar with their history with Decipher.

Edit: I just looked at the article. Is that an official Decktech article or just something anybody can submit and write just about anything in?

 

The article is on their site. I was at their site for other reasons and just happened to read the article. Personally, I'm feed up (as I'm sure most of those who know me realize) with Lucas, Lucasfilm and Hasbro. They've put the almightly dollar ahead of what their fans really want. It personally stikes me as a royal screw job to fans of the CCG if Wizards gets the licence and the mechanics to the SW CCG. Decipher created the game, they nutured it, they deserve(d) to keep it.

I don't want to get into a anti WOTC thing. I just thought this bit of information would be something SWCCG fans would be interested in knowing about. Frankly... I'd prefer to see "no new" cards, than have another company pick up where D left off.

R'Bolt

 

Naturally, if WotC did get the gaqme mechanics, I should expect that they should look right to these boards for their AOTC expansions.

Why would WotC want both games? I think it's a hoax. If it isn't, well, then we'll see what happens.

 

A fair enough thought T2Q.

But my main point still stands:

Look here for the AOTC expansions!

 

I rather see Decipher get it back. This is what will happen when WotC gets it:

1. They will produce expansions every 3 and a half to 4 months, each with about 150-180 cards in them, depending.

2. Their tournaments will become even more ANAL then Decipher's {which is pretty strict tournaments.}

3. Expect promos to come out that are REALLY good but are EXTREMELY hard to get.

4. Like all Hasbro stuff, the mighty dollar will be thought of before game-play, etc.

5. Instead of errata we will see bannings.


----- This is NOT anti-WotC propaganda, but merely, what WILL happen.

Let's look at past games. They bought the license to L5R. They RAN that game into the ground. They produced expansions about 4 and a half months apart, where the old A&G produced them about 5 and a half months apart. This [though it seems trivial] makes a major impact on player's wallets.

They then released promo cards for L5R, that were extremely hard to attain, and these cards impacted the current playing field.

Bonuses to getting the new cards:

1. Finally AOTC cards. [Sorry, boys they won't look at your cards, its technically illegal, unless they wanna buy your card ideas which they will not do.]

2. Due to WotC's rights on the Expanded Universe, you can expect to see some EU cards [ie. NJO possible cards, more Thrawn cards, etc.]

Now, they will probably re-package the booster packs as well, they will appear as:

Booster Pack: 11 Cards: 1 Rare: 4 Uncommons: 6 Commons: Price: 4.99$

---- Decipher's Version: 11 Cards: 1 Rare: 5 Uncommons: 5 Commons [Price: 3.99$]

New Booster Pack: 5 Casrds: 1 Possible Rare: 2 Uncommons: 2 Commons: Price: 2.99$ [Note: The Possible Rare might instead be a Rare... most likely, or a common, or an uncommon.]

[Side-Note: Decipher never used this style.]

Also, as to DeckTech, they were not 100% anti-Decipher. They found out that Decipher lost their license before Decipher told us [and in the time of them losing their license, they produced both Coruscant and Naboo]. So, DeckTech decided to get on WotC's good terms.

Also, Decipher kinda shot the fans in the back when they canceled Worlds of 2001, because of the 9-11 incident. Yes, it was catastrophic, but it was no means to cancel a 50,000$ dollar Con in November, saying that Players would be flying there and that it would be unsafe.

In my opinion, that should be left up to the players to decide, not to Decipher.

So, since many people already made the plans to go to Worlds [ie. got their Hotels, etc.] DeckTech took it upon themselves to make their own Con there on the week that Worlds was scheduled for.

They called this Con, FreedomCon. They used the money gathered from this event to help those in need, ie. victims of 9-11, and other Hospitals in the area.

They asked for donations first from Decipher, Decipher did not respond, AT ALL, except for saying this statement:


<< "FreedomCon is not considered Worlds or a Worlds Tournament by Decipher. This is an unofficial Con, and the winner will not be considered the Champion of StarWars CCG this year. Thank You." >>


So, DeckTech then looked elsewhere for donations. This came in form from the StarWars Club, which is owned by WotC.

And many people took this as anti-Decipher pro-WotC statements by DeckTech.

So, I wouldn't take their articles with a whole salt shaker, maybe just 1 little grain. Their information is accurate. You cannot say it isn't just because they "appear" as pro-WotC to you.

In my opinion, I would like no new cards unless Decipher made them.

SithNut

 

Okay, time for me to add my $0.02...

As Red84 says, take this with a BIG grain of salt. Who is this guy? What exactly did Doug Taylor "confirm"? Too many unknowns to jump in and assume this story is true.

But if it IS true....

Why would WOTC want the mechanics? I seriously doubt it is to continue the game. If that was their goal, they would have negotiated for the mechanics up front, not a year later. Why release (or revive) a game that will compete with their own SW:TCG?

In fact, the only reason I can think of that WOTC would want to buy the mechanics is because SW:CCG is still competing with SW:TCG. If WOTC "owns" the SW:CCG, several things can happen: (1) The Player's Committee can be shut down, (2) No more "virtual cards", (3) No more message boards on Decipher's web site, (4) No more sanctioned tournaments.

Think about it... Decipher is still keeping this game alive, to a certain degree. Tournaments are posted on their web site; card lists and product information are still available; message boards for SW:CCG players are supported (and a lot of new players have been posting there recently); there will even be a SW:CCG World Championship tournament at DecipherCon.

If WOTC owns SW:CCG, all of that will be stopped. Legally, WOTC would be able to force Decipher to cease and desist all support for SW:CCG. And legally, WOTC would probably be able to order the Player's Committee to cease and desist, for virtual cards and rules updates would infringe on their newly-acquired intellectual property.

There's another minor reason I can see why WOTC may want to buy the game outright. What would happen if WOTC lost the TCG license? Decipher might pick it right back up again and revive their original game. Why would WOTC lose the license? Any number of reasons. The chances may be slim, but they aren't zero. But if WOTC owns the CCG, even if they lose the license, Decipher won't be able to publish the old game.

Keep in mind, this isn't just about Star Wars. It's about Magic, Pokemon, LOTR, Harry Potter, Star Trek, etc, etc. WOTC vs. Decipher is about market share and sales in a volatile, fickle and unpredictable industry. Any business WOTC can keep away from Decipher is more business they might get. And SW:CCG was always the #2 TCG, right behind Magic:TG. LOTR is giving WOTC enough trouble; they certainly don't want to fight LOTR and SW:CCG.

Of course this is all 100% pure speculation. I'm still not convinced WOTC would or should want to buy out the SW:CCG. The smarter course of action IMO would be to just ignore SW:CCG, because it will die eventually. But business executives can be an impatient lot, and maybe SW:CCG just isn't dying fast enough for them.... (Shrug) Something to think about....

 

I would love for the CCG to come back, there is no other game its equal. But by the same token the only game i think that wizards of the coast has done really good on and made last is Magic. Now I do think that the CCG took a rong turn with some of the rule changes and stuff in the last two expansions but I think that happened because they were trying to publish as many cards for us fans to enjoy before they were stripped of there liscens. They were forced to produce fast.

But I do think that Decipher can and would do a much better job of the CCG if it were to come back.

If you think about what Lucas is doing its quit genious. Form what I here by running all his Star Wars goods through one company he will own most of there exporting goods. And if he wanted to he could then take over that company because he would hold so much of its selling items that if they didnt sell to him, he could take away the liscens and really hurt the company. Of course the big fish at that company would not want that to happen so instead of letting that happen they sell to him and retiane some what controle of htere company instead of losing most of it.

 

Alright, let me take off my Player's Advocate badge for a moment. I say this as a player and forever supporter of the Star Wars CCG (as made by Decipher).

Perhaps, perhaps not. But at the time of Freedom Con, DT also said "Oh this isn't an official Worlds tournament" yet on the official FreedomCon site, it continued to be promoted AS an alternative to Worlds with every intention of making the winner the "World Champion" however unoffical it was. AND it was promoted as making a statement against Decipher. The flyer was there. They know what it said and so do I. I spent a week-and-a-half on their boards calling them on it. They jumped into bed with wotc because it was convenient for them and vice versa. In addition to that, they are pot stirrers. And it is for all these reasons that I do not hold 99% of the guys behind DT in rather high esteem--or their "news". And I really don't know how anyone can criticize Decipher that harshly for their decision until any of us are put into the same position they were put into (and I pray NO ONE will ever have to be in that position again).

Personally, I don't understand how the above is news. It's not a secret that wotc has always wanted the mechanics. They wanted them right up to the point that LFL said "No, we want you to make your own game." Wotc will forever try and negotiate to get the game away from Decipher (see Artie's post as to why). And hopefully, Decipher will forever flip them off.

And if a deal is made, I will more than likely be content because Decipher will make sure that the game continues to be made in their image (however that is actually accomplished). Remember, Big D is in the driver seat. Would I prefer the cards have D's name in the copyright? Obviouslly. Would I buy the cards? Probably--though I'd categorize the feeling of giving wotc money right up there with watching the Yankess win another World Series.



Now, as an Advocate once again I say simply this: Let's keep our focus on the task at hand and not worry about rumors. Whatever happens happens and will be dealt with when it happens.

 

Some interesting points of view, Artie-Deco. I never thought about it from the perspective of trying to "kill" the CCG. Personally... "if" the above rumor is true, I don't see it as a "kill the CCG" move. I personally believe Wizards see's dollars with the SWCCG property. Let's face it, the "TCG" is far from a run away hit. They realize the CCG is marketed to a "different" audience for the most part. I am personally of the view, that if the license is acquired by WOTC, they'll continue the game by issuing a "second series" CCG with the same mechanics. I don't know whether or not all previous cards would be banned, but I do believe a "new start" for entry of new players would be a priority in any potential reimergence of the game. I am of the belief that even Decipher could have benifited from a second series SW CCG (look at what they're attempting to do with the Star Trek francisie). The Prequel format was an excellent opportunity for that to happen, but then again it would have been a poor marketing move in light of the fact that they knew they had "already" lost the license.

R'Bolt

 

As an fyi:

1. There was supposed to be a Prequel-only version of the game. Much like Two Towers will be for LOTR, the Prequel-only would have kept all the same mechnics, but the two trilogies would have been kept seperate of each other (and thus we would have had an Anakin card probably). However, it was LFL's decision to keep the cards all in one game.

2. Aside from the fact that Young Jedi and Jedi Knights were the "alternate editions", there was going to be a Star Wars CCG 2.0. It was the project that D revealed (when they lost the licence) that was going to repackage all the "useful" cards into three releases (one for each movie in the classic Trilogy) to make it easier for new players to get the neccessary cards needed faster. The sets were also to have had some new stuff as well as the original concept of "virtual cards".

3. Re-emergence? Doesn't a game have to be inactive or "dead" to be "re-emerged"

 

Well I will say it is "far" from dead in the Northern Virginia area. Seems to be growing everytime I go to gaming night! If it wasn't for having to learn all the Reflections III, Tatooine, Coruscant and Theed Palace cards... I'd have probably dusted my decks off by now. Shame their gaming night is the same evening as LOTR's.

R'Bolt

 

I am personally of the view, that if the license is acquired by WOTC, they'll continue the game by issuing a "second series" CCG with the same mechanics.

Well, maybe you're just more optimistic than me, R'bolt.

I just don't see it. I don't see why WOTC would want to continue the SW:CCG -- or start the CCG all over again with a 2nd Ed. -- when they already have SW:TCG. WOTC would just have all the same problems Decipher had with self-competing products. They don't have two versions of Magic, or Pokemon, or Harry Potter ... why start now with Star Wars?

Maybe they will. But I just don't see it.

 

This was covered earlier on another board, but since it's a topic conversation over here as well I thought I'd chime in:

Wizards of the Coast is not currently in negotiations with Decipher for the rights to the SWCCG game mechanics, nor do we have any plans to negotiate for those rights in the future.

Thanks!

_M

Michael J Kent
Product Manager, Star Wars TCG
Wizards of the Coast

 

Thanks for clarifying WOTC's position Mr. Kent.

Personally I wonder (call me a skeptic) if WOTC would actually "admit it" if they were negotiating for the license at this point? It was still somewhat of an interesting article over at Decktech, apparantly written with insider information. Personally...I hope it's true. I'd prefer "no new cards" rather than have WOTC take if over from Decipher. Save me a ton of money in the long run.

R'Bolt

 

gee an apparent WotC official comes on, says thier not negotiating and right after somebody comes on & says basically they dont believe them. CCG is dead, no offense, WotC would not put out a competing line, excepecially durring a launch year of a new SW card game. Lets use some common sense people. However much you like CCG there comes a time when you have to admit its dead. Decipher lost the license and WotC picked up the rights to produce a SW card game.
Keep playing the game you love, but I wouldnt hope for any new official cards.
Dice Rule!!

 

Thanks for the info, MJK.

You're not "currently" in negotiations, and have no plans for the "future" ... does that mean your negotiations in the "past" are now complete?

 

-==>>Now here is the extra special section I like to call rumors and vibes. This next rumor has been confirmed by Doug Taylor of the players committee, and could mean a lot of things for the game. Here goes, <<==-

The writer of the article mentions a person by the name of Doug Taylor. Curious what relationship he has to the Players Committee and how informed he might be on a subject of this sort? Nothing like backroom stories to spice it up.

R'Bolt

 

Well, this is a moot point now, but I wanted to address a few comments above:

Red84:"Personally, I don't understand how the above is news. It's not a secret that wotc has always wanted the mechanics. They wanted them right up to the point that LFL said "No, we want you to make your own game." Wotc will forever try and negotiate to get the game away from Decipher (see Artie's post as to why). And hopefully, Decipher will forever flip them off. "

When the announcement was made about the license transfer, Warren Holland stated that Lucasfilm (or was it WotC?) were offered the mechanics to purchase and declined them.

RestariningBolt: Let's face it, the "TCG" is far from a run away hit.

I guess you would have to define "run away hit" to argue this point. But the game is doing quite well. It is gaining momentum very quickly and is most definitely not doing poorly by any definition. Did it take off like LotR? No, but LotR is an major exception and is the first CCG based on a series of books that have been extremely popular for over 60 years. SWTCG is the 4th CCG based on a popular series out 25 years in a suturated market, yet it is still selling very good. It is nearly sold out at my local Walmart. Their are about 5 two-player starters and 15 five card packs left. Other hobby shops (the ones smart enough to stock it) have reported very good sales as well.

Again, looks like this was all a moot point but it sure did open some interesting discussion.

 

"The game is doing quite well." ..."It's gaining momentum very quickly."

Do you have sales figures to back that up, or is that "just" your opinion? Where is the TCG placed with respect to other CCG's? I'd be curious is know.

"The one's smart enough to stock it."

I suppose there are a lot of "dumb" stores in my area that don't think it's worth the effort. The TCG isn't selling very well from what I can see here in the Metro DC area. TRU, Target, WalMart and the like have it "stacked" up to the rafters. Judging from posts here on the board, most people can't even "find" the latest expansion. Our Card Shop (and it's a major one in the Northern Virginia area) has moved the game to the back of the store and certainly haven't sold much of what they stocked. They "don't" plan on stocking the latest expansion from what I understand. Seems vaguely fmailiar to the story of Decipher's Jedi Knights to me.

Lord of the Rings "is" a hit. No debate about that. Brand new game with "exceptional mechanics" and "gameplay".

R'Bolt