Would Anakin have made a good Jedi Master?

Good points sinister. And while I do not think Anakin would have made a good Jedi Master, I do disagree with some of the things you said.

Why do you think that Anakin would not have made a good Jedi Master? Because of his faults? If you look at the actions of all the characters, they all had faults. All of them. And they all made some very poor choices.

I think that we do not have any real evidence on whether Anakin would have or would not made a good Jedi Master. You can't use his faults as evidence. We don't know if he would have been able to overcome them if he had not become a Sith Lord. And you have to consider the fact that other Jedi Masters - like Yoda and Obi-Wan - had their own major faults.

Look at Count Dooku. He was an elderly and well respected Jedi Master. He had trained Qui-Gon and who knows how many other padawans. And yet . . . he became a Sith Lord. Spent his last twelve or thirteen years as a Sith Lord

People like to believe they can provide a quick answer regarding someone's personality or fate. What many do not realize is that there are no absolute answers regarding anyone or anything. Life is too uncertain for the absolute answer.

 

I think he would have been a great Jedi Master just not the Jedi Master the council would have wanted him to be. I can see Anakin being a rogue Jedi only accepting missions from the Council if they are too dangerous or complicated for regular Jedi Knights. I can also see him only accepting the missions from Obi-Wan. Living with Padme and the twins he spends less time on Coruscant and more time on Naboo more than likely becoming that world's Jedi Watchman...

 

Now you're just assuming that was the reason Anakin chose to be patient.
I said he could have made a good Jedi Master, not in ROTS, but in time, and it's good to here you agree.

Well of course.

But those "issues" are so broad. Luke was tempted by the Dark Side, and so was Anakin. But was Darth Sidious a man in disguise, pretending to be a mentor to Luke? No. Did Luke have a secret wife? No. Did Luke have an unborn child? No. I could go on but I rather not.

How was Anakin supposed to let it go when it hadn't even occured? Those families do move on, of course, but after they mourn and after they have time to grieve and compose themselves. Anakin had neither of these things. Also, he was faced with the situation of knowing that his wife was going to die and not being able to do anything about it.

 

Once upon a time, Dooku did have enough restraint and control that he could become a Jedi Master. He proved that he earned the right to be a Master. But during the last few years before the Battle of Naboo, Dooku began to see the faults of the Republic and the Jedi. Thus he fell when the opportunity presented itself. Anakin, on the other hand, was not ready to be a Master. Much less a Knight. He had not proven that he was ready to be a Master now, perhaps never. He was too stuck in his ways. He barely even proved he was ready to be a Knight. Between Palpatine's "campaigning" and public approval, they couldn't keep him a Padawan for much longer. The Council was aware, though, that Anakin was not ready to be a Master. And when he could've stepped up and proven them wrong, he failed. He let pride, jealously and anger get in the way.

As long as Palpatine is there manipulating things, Anakin could never become a Master. He could never really prove himself the way Obi-wan did or the way Luke does later on.

Luke had a sister that he wanted to protect from the Sith, Vader in particular. Luke wanted revenge on the man who destroyed so many lives, including his father's and Obi-wan. Luke didn't stay to finish his training under Yoda, thus he feels that he is not ready to do this alone and half trained.

A Jedi is different from a normal person. A Jedi cannot afford to hold on to greif. A Jedi cannot be ruled by fear, anger and hate. A Jedi must remain in control no matter what happens to them or the ones that they care for.

And you don't think that people who do know that someone they love will die of a terminal disease don't feel that same way? I've been there. I know what it's like knowing about this and feeling helpless. But I continued to live my life, just as others do. We all die. Death is unstoppable. We're dying the minute we're born.

Sorry for coming off as an attack, but my point is that Anakin's not the only one who has to deal with these issues in the GFFA. He studied the Code. He was told it every way imaginable. Pratically drilled into his head. He choose to ignore it for selfish reasons and those

 

But there are absolute answers on a person's actions. Anakin showed by his actions what he was made of. Nobody had to give "a quick answer" to explain Anakin's personality - he gave it himself.
If there are no absolute answers to anything, we may as well get rid of the justice system and the jails, since we can't say absolutely that what anyone does is wrong.

 

But there are absolute answers on a person's actions. Anakin showed by his actions what he was made of. Nobody had to give "a quick answer" to explain Anakin's personality - he gave it himself.

But was it permanent? ROTJ proved otherwise.

 

I say no...he lacked the very thing all Jedi masters needed...Humility

Anakin never learned Humility because he never had to "work" at being strong....

Wisdom means being Humble....and Anni was a very un-wise person...even as vader.

He is tought his first lesson by his son.

 

Oh, it wasn't permanet. Though it is subjective that if he lived, he wouldn't slip again. However, his change in personality was a result of what he did for 23 years and being able to reflect upon his actions. At present, Anakin wasn't really reflecting on his actions. He could've easily done so, but then again, he might not. Only by applying himself as a Jedi, could he really make the change from where he was in ROTS to where he is in ROTJ and to where he could be.

 

Right, but does Luke have emotional connections with the Emperor who is twisting his mind in the background? It's quite obvious to Luke that Sidious is evil, but Anakin along with the rest of the Galaxy in the PT trusted this man as their Chancellor, as a person who stood for democracy. He back-stabbed them all, when Luke knew from the start he was a dictator and etc.

Of course. But Jedi don't have attachments, therefore they don't have any grief do they? They have learnt from birth to control these emotions. Anakin didn't.

That's true, but did you give up right away? Did you find out the news and then go "Oh well, he's going to die someday"? Anakin tried and since he is a Jedi, he believes that if the Jedi don't know how to save life, no one does. But since he finds out about Plapatine's story, he realizes there might be another way, a way where he doesn't need to sneak around. I'm not saying what he did was right, but I can completely understand him.

That's just it. It was drilled into his head. It was taught, but was it learnt? If the Jedi knew of his attachment issues, why did they ignore them?

 

I think Anakin was and would be to confused to be a Jedi Master.

 

Yes, he knew that Palpatine was evil. But twice he still came close to turning with and without Palpatine's influence. Palpatine was twisting Luke's mind at the start of the duel, which is why he attacked Palpatine and that lead to Vader defending Palpatine. Rather than play the trust issue, he played up Luke's inadequte (sp) training. That everyone would die because he set them all up, thus forcing Luke into attacking him. He figured that Luke would be like his father, easily swayed by power from anger and hate. The second time, Vader picked up on it and then used Leia to get Luke to unleash his rage.

So yes, Luke was being tricked. The only difference is that the deception was different, but based on the same goals.

But they can train themselves to let go. Just as Luke learned to let go of his attachments to his sister and friends. It's easier if it is done from birth, but it can still be done as an adult. It just takes time and training. It's like learning to speak another language. It is easier to do it at a young age, but it can be done as an adult. It just takes time as an adult.

The thing is not so much looking for a way. But it is living your life, rather than moping around. That is what life is. Living for the moment. People occupy themselves so that they aren't thinking about the crap going on in their lives. People doesn't sit there day in and day out, worrying about dying or someone else they love is dying. I didn't say "Oh well, he's going to die someday". But I did occupy myself by going through my regular daily routines. Life went on. I went to school. I went out and did stuff with my friends and family. My mom worked and took care of stuff at home. My siblings did school and work.

All Anakin did was worry about Padme. He never did anything else to occupy his mind. Nor did he begin working on letting go of that fear. The fear is the number one factor in attachments. Remove the fear and you will be much better off.

They didn't ignore his issues. They cannot do anything for him. This is something that he has to work through on his own. No one else can do it for him. This is what being a Jedi is. Learning to conquer the dark side within. The Master can show him the door, but they cannot push him through it. He has to go in and face his own inner darkness. He has to face his fears and then let go of them. The point is that he didn't even try.

 

Well it most definitely was based on the same goal, but it was done differently which did influence quite a lot. If Anakin had known Palpatine was a Sith Lord when he (Palpatine) told him about the great Sith legend, do you think his first reaction would have been "Is it possible to learn this power?" or "Liar"? Plapatine drew him in through trust, Palpatine was making it quite obvious to Luke he wanted him to become a Sith and if he didn't he would die.

This isn't like learning a language at all. It's about forgetting how to love freely. The only evidence you have that it can be done is Luke, which I mentioned before had different circumstances.

So you're telling me you found out and didn't even bother double checking or anything? You just left it on the spot? How long can you occupy yourself until you think about it again? Anakin went on with life the best he could and even volunteered to go on a mission. You probably had some good things going for you at the time, like friends and school, but not for Anakin. Everything was falling apart for him, the Republic, the Council. What happy thing could he possibly focus on?

That's completely true, but did his Master show him the way when he needed it? No, he said you will be expelled from the Order and that's it. He didn't tell him how to get over it, just "let it go" "it will pass." Well it wasn't passing was it? Yoda felt distress in Anakin in AOTC, what did he do? Nothing. Obi-Wan knew of Anakin's attachment to Padme, what did he do? Nothing. Mace didn't trust him, wha

 

I agree that it wasn't permanent. Vader did change at the end. But in AOTC-ROTS, Anakin showed what he was like at that time through his actions, not someone else trying to figure out "why".

 

Anakin would've been confused, but given his circumstances, Anakin would probably make the same choice.

It's not about forgetting how to love. It's about learning how to love freely. Learning to accept change. Learning to accept loss. Learning to adapt. It can be done. Anakin didn't want to even try to learn.

There was a second opinion, yes. But after it was confirmed, we moved on with our lives. Living each day, going through the motions, doing our best to avoid giving into dispair.

A day or two, at best. There was the initial reaction that day, which lasted a few hours. Then I was back to what I was doing. Same with most of us. The next day I told my friends at school. But by the end of the week, I was pretty much as before. All of us were.

For as long as you can. It only becomes harder towards the end, but not impossible. In my case, it wasn't impossible since we weren't all there. But we carried on until my step father died. After that, we took the week off to mourn and bury.

He had friends at the Temple, who weren't out fighting. Granted, the Republic and the Senate were in turmoil. And he had issues with the Council, but he had plenty to keep him focused. Namely becoming a proud poppa. He and Padme could've set out to make arrangments for the birth. Make sure Threepio could help, as well as finding or building a nanny droid. There was pleny to do.

When Obi-wan said that, he was telling Anakin that if he abandoned their pursuit of Dooku for Padme, he would be expelled. That's neglecting his duty. Duty comes first. Lucas stresses this, especially when he shows Padme stopping to fire on Dooku as he's taking off. She put the Republic ahead of her personal feelings, whereas Anakin would've done the opposite if he had his way.

The dreams, which he said will pass, was based on the prepception that they were dreams and not visions. If Anakin had made it clearer, then Obi-wan would've taken some form of action.

He trusted that Obi-wan had a handle on it. He was told that it had to do with his mother's death. He made a point of warning Anakin, when the boy finally came to him for help.

He thought he was doing something, by letting them be together.

 

Probably, but he would have had more to think about and perhaps his actions wouldn't have been so rash.

People do love freely, everyday. They make attachments, but they are forced to let them go when that loved one parts with them. That's loving freely. How can having barriers possibly be free?

[Note that I am not against the Order on this partiuclar "rule" just that it was hardly possible for Anakin to accomplish it]

And who exactly would Anakin go to in order to confirm a death that might possibly happen but there are no visible signs as to it happening?

Because it was confirmed, there was nothing you could so. Anakin didn't have it confirmed so there was still hope.

Just as it did with Anakin, when he thought he was running out of time.

I doubt Anakin's "friends" (who don't exist in the movie) could have stopped him from thinking about his dying wife. How could he possibly discuss his unborn child's future when he wasn't even sure if that child would even live? He would just be reminded of his vision.

I know why Obi-Wan said that and I'm not questioning that, but what about after? Did he bother checking up on the fact that Anakin's attachements were gone?

So why not talk to Obi-Wan about it?

Finally. When it was too late.

Right, even when the Jedi have taught for hundreds of years that attachment is dangerous.

Too little, too late.

 

Or maybe not.

These barriers that you're talking about, I assume that you're refering to controling yourself emotionally? Well, it goes back to the fact that there are dangerous emotions inside of us. We don't always lash out with our anger. We try to contain it. In the case of the Jedi, they have to contain that anger and expel it without unleashing it. Fear is another thing that has to be contained and then let go.

The loving freely for Jedi can be accomplished without being attached to that person.

It is something that can be accomplished. As history proves, anything can be accomplished. Or to put it more universally.

George & Marty McFly: "If you put your mind to something, you can accomplish anything."

He already had such things taught to him by Obi-wan and Yoda. They've both instructed him that the future is always in motion and that he must be careful when sensing the future. He had to fall back on his training which is part of not only taking the trials, but functioning as a Jedi. Thinking back to his training. Even Palpatine used this as a way to twist the Jedi teachings.

Palpatine: "Think back to your training."

But see, he did have it confirmed that it might not happen. His training as I said. He was certain it would happen no matter what, which is why he clung to false hope that he could stop it.

But he wasn't running out of time. Yes, we know this and he doesn't. But this is a result of letting his fear drive him bat **** crazy, instead of taking the Jedi way.

Who says that he did or didn't have friends, according to the movies? I'm not just talking about the eu, I'm talking about the films. He didn't care about the child, he cared only about Padme. The last time he talks about the pregnancy was after being made a member of the Council, minus the Master ranking. Only Padme talked about it.

Anyway, they could've discussed other things besides his problems. I certainly did.

He knew that they were there. He's not stupid. That's why he covered for Anakin going back to Naboo alone. Why he would poke and prod a bit, during the Clone Wars, but never outright asked. Why he visited Padme both times after returning from the Outer Rim Seiges. He knew. He just choose to ignore it in favor of his friend, which was his biggest mistake.

He still harbors resentment towards Obi-wan for what happened with his mother. Even though he would've helped Anakin this time.

It wasn't too late until he sliced Mace's hand off.


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For a Jedi, not a person who has lived outside of this world for the first nine years of his life.

With obvious exceptions. If you so desperately wanted to fly, it takes more than just some wil power to do so.

Exactly, the future is always in motion, so what's stopping him from believing he can prevent his vision?

Well it's obvious he's slowly drifting away form the Jedi and their ways.

I certainly didn't say he did or didn't have friends. You were the one who suggested this in the first place which is not at all apparent in the movies, something I pointed out, put didn't state an opinion on.

Are you telling me Anakin didn't care about his children? I really don't know what to say except I truly, and honestly disagree with you 100%.

Really? He's not stupid?
I agree, his biggest mistake.

If you'll go back, you'll see my question was referred to Yoda.

It was too late because Anakin's mind had already been set about the Jedi and Palpatine. It was a slow progression that leaded up that point (cuting off arm) but it was definitely there.

Yep, it sure was.

 

For thirteen years, has he trained to become a Jedi.

Yes, it takes time and patience to achieve your goals, but they can be achieved.

Because he's thinking emotionally, not rationally. His only method was to let go of his fears and accept the future, whether it happens or not. Rather than actively try to force change.

And that is why he loses everything. He took the quick and easy way to a solution.

He did when he found out about Luke later. But you can tell from the outset that he didn't want to share Padme with anyone. He looks kinda dismayed to find out that she's preganat. Shocked, yes. But dismayed as well. But afterwards, he shows almost no interest in the child. It's always Padme. She's the one who brings up their unborn child. He appears to not give two ***** about them until he finds out about Luke. And then it's just, "I want to use him to kill Sidious." He doesn't start caring about Luke until much later.

One can make mistakes based on a naivee belief and not be stupid.

Yoda had gave him his two cents on the matter. Telling him the truth would get him kicked out.

He hadn't made up his mind until Mace said, "I'm going to end this once and for all." That's when he made up his mind.

 

That's one of the most disturbing parts of ROTS, the scene immediately after the dream. Padme's first question after Anakin tells her what the dream was is not about herself, but the baby. The fate of their child is uppermost in her thoughts, but Anakin shrugs it off with "I don't know" - or he didn't care about that compared to Padme's fate.
The first dream didn't even show her dying - suffering, yes, but he jumps to the conclusion she will die. It's the second dream, after he's been brooding about her death, that shows her die.

 

Yes, it is sad and disturbing. But a reality of someone who isn't interested in becoming a parent. That's part of why Lucas says that becoming a parent should bring out the best in you. It's a big responsibility. You should be ready and willing to step up, take responsibility and be a good parent. Anakin, being selfish, is not ready to share Padme with anyone. Including their own child.

So no, he would have made a good Jedi Master going the way he has. Had he made the change before he put himself in a position to become a Sith, he could become a great Master.

 

But were those his first thirteen years? Look how far he has come, but letting go of your first perspective of the world, and how you are supposed to live it is the hardest, it can be done, but not by supressing your emotions constantly, which is what Anakin was forced to do.

Well of course, that is his undoing as a Jedi, but as a husband? Not so much.

To save a loved one.

I see, dismayed...I completely see that when he exclaims that Padme's pregnancy is wonderful, that it is the happiest day of his life, and that their child is a blessing. Also, I suppose he feels quite upset about having a kid since he is caressing Padme's swollen belly lovingly.

I guess I should have added this to my statement because the sarcasm didn't seem to get through.

Again, if you'll go back, my question was why YODA didn't talk to OBI-WAN.

I agree, his final "mind-making" was indeed in that moment, but I definitely don't see him making this decision out of nowhere.

I don't recall Anakin saying the dream was about the baby, and not Padme. He says it's about Padme during childbirth. I hardly believe he "shrugs it off" either. He honestly doesn't know. What else is he supposed to say? He sees Padme in pain, not the baby.

 

I would say though, that's not the reality of every person who isn't interested in becoming a parent. You can be aware of your responsiblities and fufill them, even if they're not want you wanted. If you don't have it in you beforehand, becoming a parent can't bring out something that isn't there. Padme thought being pregnant was "wonderful" but still was worried about the future - she might not have wanted it all that much either. She knew that "this baby will change our lives" But she had the inner compassion in her character alreay and could welcome something she hadn't planned on.
Anakin hated change, Padme didn't. I think that had more to do with his lack of concern for the baby's fate

 

This isn't supressing, this is letting them go. Not letting them control you. Luke had it just as hard, going twenty some years before having to make the change. You have to make the application. Make the effort. Anakin didn't even try.

It's his undoing period, because when he is no longer a Jedi, he is lead by his emotions. Only these emotions are anger and hate.

She only needed saving from him.

Does he include the child as being saved? No. Does he include raising their child to rule the galaxy? No. Does he even ask if the child survived along with Padme? No. Does he say I cannot live without my wife and child? No. Just his wife makes the cut. Does he justify his actions as for her and the child? Nope, just her.

Talk to him about what? Anakin coming to him? Who says that he didn't and that's what prompted him to visit Padme before going to Utapau.

He was thinking, but still undecided until then.

But he never expresses any concern for the child. Just for Padme. She at least spoke up about the child. She showed where and what her priority was.

I didn't say that everyone could develop that when that time comes. That's why Lucas says it as "It should bring out the best in you." Should, not does. I agree that having the baby is the ultimate change, next to death.

 

This is interesting. Yet, he ultimately does sacrifice his life for the "child," (he apparently doesn't know there are twins) years later, even though he seems to be uncaring for the child in ROTS.

 

It was for Anakin because he couldn't let go, so he had to supress his emotions instead. Pretend that they never existed. Anakin didn't even try, you say? I wonder how the heck he became a Jedi in the first place if he constantly showed signs of anger and hatred.

Towards the end yes, but when he still hadn't made up his mind about the Palpatine situation, he was thinking with his emotions and he was thinking for her.

Again, towards the end, not at the time I posted above.


Does he include the child as being saved? No.

When exactly was that? I honestly don't know.

Does he include raising their child to rule the galaxy? No.

He sort of needs to convince Padme before he convinces his child who doesn't happen to be born yet. He doesn't need its agreement, but Padme's.

Does he say I cannot live without my wife and child? No.

He doesn't even know his child. For now, his child is his wife because they are apart of a whole.

Just his wife makes the cut. Does he justify his actions as for her and the child? Nope, just her.

I suppose you're referring to "I did this for you, to protect you" (not quite sure about the exact quote). Again, he needs Padme's agreement. He needs her to understand his ways and what he has done.

This is getting tiresome. When Yoda had that feeling of distress in AOTC within Anakin, and he knew something was terribly wrong, why didn't he talk to Obi-Wan? Just to make sure things were alright?

You seem to be assuming quite a lot.

He is worried, but since he saw nothing about the child, how can he be so sure it was in pain or dying? Besides, he was reluctant to tell Padme about her hurting, so telling her the child was buring as well (which there is no evidence of) would just further worry her. He doesn't even know about the child, what could he have posibly said?