PT Would it have been better if Dooku was given screentime in EP I?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Slowpokeking, Nov 12, 2013.

Moderators: Bazinga'd
  1. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    Why? Any character should be understood enough, no matter you use 1 for each movie or just one guy through all three. And no, Dooku already showed up in the trailer, certainly they weren't trying to hide him like Talia in TDKR or Killian in IM3.

    He was not something like GG, GG had the chip in his mind to command all the droids. Maul, didn't have such skill, nor was he a military commander.

    Even in TCW, he won simply because both Satine and Vizsla aren't smart, especially Vizsla, who chose to duel him.

    I already explained.

    No, nobody said Leia or Han shouldn't get more development, but OT was not THAT badly affected like PT due to many reasons, and this is not a thread about Leia or Han.
    Last edited by Slowpokeking, Nov 19, 2013
  2. MOC Yak Face Moderator, Classic Trilogy

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2004
    star 4
    Regarding Maul, I think it's a common mistake to think that because we don't see him doing something, that means that he can't do them.

    The Sith wouldn't choose their apprentices lightly. With the RoT operating as it does, with the apprentice eventually eclipsing the master's power and therefore advancing the strength of the order, Sidious wasn't going to select a one dimensional, glorified body guard as his apprentice and the next dark lord of the Sith.

    For me, Maul's appeal was that he was pure Sith. Not a Sith masquerading as a politician. Not a Sith who used to be a Jedi. A Sith, pure and simple.
    SithStarSlayer and TaradosGon like this.
  3. TaradosGon SWTV Mod - Like Palpatine with animals

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4

    I agree, though I think Maul would have a problem with ever being a public figure just because of the way he looks.The guy just looks intimidating and so I don't think he could have ever been the public figurehead of the CIS had he lived. But I don't see why they couldn't pick some charismatic pawn to be the figurehead while Maul is the real authority in secret. Or even still make Dooku head of the CIS, just don't make him a Sith.

    Personally, I'm not wild for Dooku. Compared to Palpatine, Maul, Vader (or expanding to the EU -- Revan, Malak, Malgus, Vitiate, Bane, etc.) Dooku just doesn't seem as evil and just isn't as visually striking. Almost all the villains throughout Star Wars are some of the most visually striking characters, but Dooku just looks like any other old guy.

    Story wise, it works because the leader of the CIS needs to be someone charismatic and not scary looking, but even in AOTC concept art where there is a Nautolan Sith or a Sith witch, those designs are just so much cooler.

    If I had to choose between Maul and Dooku getting an expanded role, I'd probably go with Maul.
  4. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    Some people, including myself, have speculated that Palpatine never intended for Maul to be a "true" apprentice or the next dark lord of the Sith.

    As for Dooku in TPM, I don't like to play these re-write games. Coulda, woulda, shoulda, but didn't. The PT is over, it is what it is.
    SithStarSlayer likes this.
  5. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    I hope, for your sake, that you're not one of those who judge a book by its cover.
  6. Chewbacca89 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2012
    star 5
    I agree. Maul was never a true apprentice. He was simply trained to be a tool of the dark side, not a true sith. He had very restrictive Sith training. And of course this is confirmed in the Darth Plageius Novel.
  7. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    In Wrath of Maul, he was raised to hate the oppressive Jedi who murdered those who didn't believe-in, or agree with the rules of their "religion"... Maul's force potential was evident as an infant and just because Sidious told Plagueis what he wanted to hear, doesn't make it the truth OOU. He was raised Sith, without kindness or compassion while being pressed to excel in every facet of his life... with the penalty of failure often being extreme pain or even death. No force-sensitive assassin could survive that kind of upbringing without his kind of desire. Maul wanted to be the best, because his Master told him that the TWO of them were special.

    He didn't have to be called Sith, he embodied it.

    The idea that Maul was never this or that, didn't come from Sidious during the PT era... when he conferred the title of Darth, he instructed his heir to devote himself to the idea of dominion and that he would one day hold that same position over another. When Maul returned, he behaved like a Sith, declared himself a true Lord of the Order and took his brother as an Apprentice. Dooku never declared himself Master of his own Order, despite having the Dark Acolytes at his disposal. Maul made a small empire for himself out of the broken pieces of Mandalore but Dooku couldn't take control the Death Watch...

    I liked that Sidious paid Maul a tribute when they reconnected, before he called him a rival.
    ;)
  8. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Yup. Much of that stuff came from Star Wars Journal: Darth Maul.
    SithStarSlayer likes this.
  9. sluggo1313. Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2013
    star 4

    Except that Sidious himself calls him a Sith and give him the title of Darth.

    As Chewbacca pointed out, the Sith aren't to select their apprentices lightly. Palpatine might never have planned Maul to take over for him (which is pure speculation and not really back-up by anything), but why would he waist his time with Maul then? Why put the Sith and the "grand plan" in jepordy by waisting his time with someone who can't carry on after him? What if something happened to Palpatine and Maul was all that was left? The end of Sith order?
  10. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    I tend to agree with "he told Plagueis what he wanted to hear- which wasn't exactly the truth."
    TaradosGon and SithStarSlayer like this.
  11. MOC Yak Face Moderator, Classic Trilogy

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2004
    star 4
    Yeah, I guess a fair bit of the way Maul is perceived comes down to how much is read into his character from outside the films. From the films alone I don't see anything to suggest that he's not a genuine Sith apprentice other than that he's scary looking and so can't be a public figurehead. This is where I can see Dooku as a non-Sith, well-respected face for the Separatists. Dooku doesn't need to be a Jedi-turned-Sith to convey the idea that the Jedi are flawed. There's plenty there to suggest that anyway.
  12. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    Wasn't it Plagueis who spoke about appreciating the way Sidious trained Maul, without actually knowing much about said upbringing? From what I recall, the Muun assumed that Maul was trained only as a assassin and Sidious did nothing to confirm or deny that proclamation. Might have to open up the Nook tonight and check out that passage in Darth-Plagueis again.
    Iron_lord likes this.
  13. Cushing's Admirer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2006
    star 6
    I think it would've been fabulous to have had Master Dooku in Episode 1. However, to credibly do so would've required a massive edit to the story and the development of the film. Personally, I'd have preferred to delete Maul from the saga altogether and allow Dooku to fully develop. It'd be nice to finally give an elder character and someone legitimately disenchanted with the Jedi's blindness and stubbornness the opportunity to fully form.
    Last edited by Cushing's Admirer, Feb 20, 2014
  14. purplerain Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2013
    star 4
    Dooku could easily be in TPM. I'd love to see his reaction to the Senate's refusal to help Amidala. I'd also love to see him argue with the Council about whether or not to continue serving the Republic. Perhaps he should have been a council member.
    Last edited by purplerain, Feb 20, 2014
    whostheBossk likes this.
  15. Cushing's Admirer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2006
    star 6
    I don't think they'd allow that for the precise reason Qui-Gon wasn't. He'd be seen as a maverick. Yet, I would personally have thought it'd be a great element to have Dooku on the Council to highlight his fellows stubborn blindness yet it would still completely shift the films tone.
  16. TX-20 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 21, 2013
    star 3
    More Tyranus is always welcome.
    purplerain likes this.
  17. CoolyFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2003
    star 4
    Yes this ia why id love to see episode 1 -6 retold. Just the story itself. Dooku should have had small parts in episode 1. He friendship with syfo dias, his relationship with Palpatine as a senator & his relations with the Jedi after leaving the order.
    whostheBossk likes this.
  18. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    They could have expanded Dooku's role, but to do so credibly, they probably would have needed to cut out Obi-Wan (in TPM, I mean) to keep a coherent, tight story that wasn't all over the place. While that would indeed be fabulous for Dooku's characterization and his evolution in beliefs/actions (and I say that sincerely), replacing Obi-Wan's time (too short, already) would be problematic for the trilogy as a whole - he would come out of nowhere in AoTC.

    This period would be a great spin-off film, though, quite possibly.
    whostheBossk likes this.
  19. markdeez Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 2005
    star 3
    It certainly would've worked out A LOT better had Dooku been on-screen in Ep. 1
    whostheBossk and Force Smuggler like this.
  20. Sudooku Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2014
    star 1
    After getting to know some of the Clone-War-Stories, I came to the conclusion that there should be at least be two prequel-trilogies.

    1. The Situation in the Jedi-Temple (Dookus work as a Jedi) /How Sidious got on Maul in Dathomir/ A bit everyday life of Dathomir - Mother Talzin/The rising up of Maul in Mustafar by Sidious and the Droide./ A bit of Darth Plagueis?
    2. Anakin's Childhood on Tatooine and his coming to the Jedi /Abduction of Padme
    3. The Situation of the Kalash (a not-cyborg pre-Grievous can be seen with his girl-friend fighting for his people)/ The falling apart from the Jedi and the rise of Dooku as Sidious apprentice/
    4. The Encounter of Padme with the Viceroy (The Fall of Maul into the shaft)/
    5. The Clone Army comes into being/Jeelal ye Kalash becomes Grievous/Palpatine becomes Chancellor
    6. Dookus Death, Anakin marries Padme, becomes Vader after that. / The Fall of the Republic/ Maul recovers on Dathomir.

    Maul's story to be continued in Episode VII
    Last edited by Sudooku, Jun 8, 2014
  21. Julian Skywalker-Solo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2014
    star 1

    Generally when it comes to characters, the rule is show don't tell. Speaking in terms of good writing, that is.
  22. lovelikewinter Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2014
    star 1
    Christopher Lee is always welcome. He was the best actor in the Prequels and should have had a meatier role.
  23. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4
    I didn't need Dooku in Episode I. However, I think he could have lived a little longer in Episode III.
  24. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    There is no such rule for characters, specially in something as subjective as "good writing".
  25. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    Regardless, I think Lucas did a fantastic job showing who Dooku is, especially considering the short amount of time he was on screen.

    What was "told" about Dooku? Mace's "it's not in his character" is all I can think of, and how did that turn out?

    Dooku's time on Geonosis was brilliant character building. The conversation between Dooku and Obi-Wan is one of the best in the saga.

    That small hint of surprise in ROTS was a great final touch.

    Maybe Dooku could have had a role in TPM. Maybe Dooku could have been replaced Qui-Gon/Maul in some way, I don't know. As is, I'm very happy with Dooku in the movies, even though I wanted more, that's not a bad thing. Always leave them wanting more!

    (It's the EU's use of Dooku that I find horribly disappointing)
    anakinfansince1983 and Iron_lord like this.
Moderators: Bazinga'd