Would Maul have remained loyal?

We've seen Vader and The Emperor plot each other's demise and clues point to the same thing happening with Dooku and Sidious. If Maul and Sidious had both lived long healthy lives, would Maul have eventually plotted against his master as well?

I know the Lucas quote about the nature of the Sith being parasitic and "eventually the host dies". I also know about the rule of two and its origins. But do you think the Sith Master/Apprentice relationship ever works itself out in a less confrontational way? Like maybe the Master dies of old age and the apprentice, having patiently learned and paid his dues, finally takes over?

I never got a "disloyal" vibe from Maul. Given time, would they have been at each others throats as well, or would Sidious eventually hand over the reigns naturally (by dying)?

Is the goal of a Sith master simply self-preservation or does the master feel some responsiblity (Sith Code?) to leave behind a Sith apprentice capable of carrying on their order?

That being asked, what kind of master do you think Maul would have made?

 

I don't know..the exact process of the Apprentice taking over the Master job is still very much up in the air. I doubt it's always like Vader & Palps. I think Maul would have remained loyal to the bitter end, personally.


Then again, Sith are all about power, so loyalty may be something foreign to them.

 

It's possible - once Maul begins to realise how much power he has, it's concievable that he'd want to become the master. It's not only Vader and Palpatine that are plotting against each other, but Dooku and Palpatine do that as well - Dooku plans to kill Palpatine (with Obi-Wan's help - yes, I do believe Dooku was serious in that scene), while Palpatine is secretly grooming Anakin as his apprentice.

 

I don't think that the idea of betraying Palpatine would have ever entered Maul's mind.

 

I think he would've eventually become arrogant in his fighting abilities and tried to take Palps on.
I'd be very interested in how Maul would find his apprentice.
It's hard to assume a guy who looks like Maul has your best interests at heart

 

Maul doesn't talk like he is very loyal. "At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi. At last we will have revenge"; Maul says that line like he is just sort of thinking "whatever". His deliveries of "yes, Master" never really make me think that he had much love for Palpatine. Maul seems like sort of a lazy guy who really comes alive when he fights. I imagine him telling girls about his tattoos and all the punks he has taken down. Look at how passionate he is during the movie. He really only seems to give a dang when he is fighting.

 

I wonder, would Maul have remained loyal to his wife?

 

Maul would have been the biggest bad A of all time if he had lived, but i think he would have remained loyal to palps, i heard maul was found by him at an early age, palps was like his father, and they seemed to get along great lol. if maul killed obi or escaped, it would have been worse than vader in the end.

 

Maul would have cleaned Palpatine's arse with his tongue and thanked him for the privilege.

 

Maul is well aware of the nature of sith succesions, he one days hopes to be the master. THe exact nautre of how he would do that was not clear. At the time of tmp, though it really wasn't a issue. At the time, they would not have gained anything by turning on one another so in the movie it really doesn't look like he will betray him, because it really isn't on his mind duirng that period. THats not to say he would never concievably in some hypthetical situation make and attempt.imo

 

Interesting question.

Had Maul lived, no, I don't think he would've remained loyal. The temptation to grab power for himself would've been too strong.

 

I always thought of Maul as the 'puppy dog' type, just purely by the balcony scene of 'reveal ourselves to the jedi' the way he is eagerly trying to prove his worth to his master. Going with that analogy, I think that Sidious had a really good leash on him, having him obey like a servant, and I think that Maul understands Sidious is much tougher, and by knowing this would stay loyal even if thoughts of power crept in his head.

 

Darth Maul wouldn't try and kill his master. The only way that will happen is if there's another potential apprentice Sidious might have ready to take over Maul's role. Even then, Maul would have to prove himself worthy.

With Luke and Vader, it was more personal because they were kin so Vader would much rather kill the Emperor than kill Luke. I don't know the circumstances involving Dooku and Sidious.

 

I dont think that Maul would try to userp Sid as the Sith Master. Maul was raised by Sidious to become a Sith. Sidious is everything he knows. Dooku and Vader on the otherhand were both converted to the Sith way by Sidious. Now I really dont know or care right now what the spoilers say, but I think that Anakin became Vader b/c he wanted more power, like when he tells Obi-Wan or is it Luke "You do not understand the power of the Darkside." Which is very similiar to what Dooku tells Yoda, when he proclaims himself even stronger than Yoda. Both Vader and Tyranious crave power, power that comes from the darkside, and true power is in the hands of the Master. Maul on the otherhand I think is truely louyal to Sidious, for teaching him all that he has.

 

I think Maul would've remained loyal. As many have pointed out, the balcony scene seems to indicate his great loyaltly to the Sith cause and ideal, and thus to Palpatine.

For further evidence, we need only look at Maul's background. Given that Palpatine raised him from birth (~20 years), how much longer would it take for him to stary rebelling? There's nothing that I could see that would happen in the next 20 years that wouldn't have already happened in the first 20. So by the very fact that he is still loyal in TPM, one can conclude that he will probably stay loyal for a very long time afterwards.

 

I think that for a long time, had he survived, he would've remained loyal. Palpatine raised him from a very, very early age...so for all intents and purposes, Palpatine is all Maul ever knew (as opposed to a Jedi that's turned dark or someone taken at a later age). Maul was still in training. While he was accomplished, IIRC he had only just recently been turned loose by Palpatine to do his bidding where he needed him. I'm thinking Maul KNEW that Palpatine was far stronger than he was (or at least far more experienced) in using the Force, in planning strategy, in getting others to do what he wants them to as if they had thought of the idea themselves. He knew he still had a lot to learn, even beyond the fighting skills he already had.

Now, that said, I think Maul would have turned against him in time. The moment Maul began to become too arrogant about his skills/powers...the moment he sensed any weakness or failing in his Master...the moment he started forming strategies of his own and they potentially would've worked out better than his Masters...the moment he felt he had nothing else to learn from Palpatine...or even the moment he felt that he either was going to be replaced or had found his own apprentice, he probably would've turned against his Master. Maul was already arrogant, as shown in how he managed to get himself killed *sniff*.

It's possible that conditions could've been right that Maul would never feel the need and/or competent enough to take on Palpatine (and I think he was definitely smart enough not to take on Palpatine just on a whim). I could see him waiting to take over after Palpatine died of natural causes or by someone else's hand...but only if Palpatine kept a very tight leash on him and stayed (or at least gave off the illusion of staying) powerful and sharp of mind.

 

Maul seems very focused on the task at hand - bringing down the Jedi. He shares Palpatine's fanatical hatred of them, more so than either Dooku and Anakin.

He'd be loyal for a long while. But in time, after they'd completed their task, I think his thoughts could well turn to toppling Palpatine.

 

I agree 100% with Maulfly's post. I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

I bet he cheated and was apprentice to more then one Sith.

 

Maybe in the future Maul would have betrayed Sidious. But I dont think it would have been anytime soon. Maul obviously worshipped Sidious in TPM, and probably knew that he could absord tons of knowledge from him in order to perfect himself.

 

think that for a long time, had he survived, he would've remained loyal. Palpatine raised him from a very, very early age...so for all intents and purposes, Palpatine is all Maul ever knew (as opposed to a Jedi that's turned dark or someone taken at a later age). Maul was still in training. While he was accomplished, IIRC he had only just recently been turned loose by Palpatine to do his bidding where he needed him. I'm thinking Maul KNEW that Palpatine was far stronger than he was (or at least far more experienced) in using the Force, in planning strategy, in getting others to do what he wants them to as if they had thought of the idea themselves. He knew he still had a lot to learn, even beyond the fighting skills he already had.

Now, that said, I think Maul would have turned against him in time. The moment Maul began to become too arrogant about his skills/powers...the moment he sensed any weakness or failing in his Master...the moment he started forming strategies of his own and they potentially would've worked out better than his Masters...the moment he felt he had nothing else to learn from Palpatine...or even the moment he felt that he either was going to be replaced or had found his own apprentice, he probably would've turned against his Master. Maul was already arrogant, as shown in how he managed to get himself killed *sniff*.

It's possible that conditions could've been right that Maul would never feel the need and/or competent enough to take on Palpatine (and I think he was definitely smart enough not to take on Palpatine just on a whim). I could see him waiting to take over after Palpatine died of natural causes or by someone else's hand...but only if Palpatine kept a very tight leash on him and stayed (or at least gave off the illusion of staying) powerful and sharp of mind."

Excellent post Maulfly, and I agree completely with the first two paragraphs. IMO It is in the nature of the sith, in the rule of the two, that the apprentice's final test is in defeating his master in force/saber combat and taking up the mantle.

If Maul had been defeated by Palpatine, palps would just take up a new apprentice and start from square one. If Maul defeated Palps, Maul would bury his master with honor and then continue the sith tradition. At least that is what normally would have happened; see, palpatine was the first sith in millenia to break the secrecy code, reveal himself and the sith, and try to overtake the galaxy. ANd then rule.

Still, if Maul had survuved he would one day have gone up against Palpatine, just as vader wanted to do. ((Of course Maul would not have begged for the help of anyone, like vader begged luke. I just don't get that kind of a vibe from maul ))

I also get the feeling such a fight would be honorable; that is, no poinsioned food, stab in the back, etc etc. When he feels the time is right the apprentice simply reveals his intentions to the master, and the duel begins.

 

Maul's character is not very deep. He's a ball of anger who's purpose in life is to seek out Jedis and kill them. He's be content doing Palpy's dirty work until a Jedi kills him.

 

Maul seems devoted to the Sith cause, so I think he would have remained loyal to Sidious for a while, but if Sidious began to grow old and weak and Maul grew in power, he would have killed him off simply for the benefit of keeping the Sith as strong as possible, then recruiting a strong apprentice.