Would Qui-Gon join Count Dooku?

Qui-gon would fight Dooku. Yes, he tried to talk Xanatos out of it in their second encounter. But after that, they fought a very hard and torturous fight. Each encounter between the two of them, they fought and each time, Qui-gon realized that he couldn't save him. In fact, after Xanatos killed himself, Qui-gon said that he could live with what he did. That his intention had been to make Qui-gon feel guilty for what he did, but as he tells Obi-wan, he had already made peace with what Xanatos had become. Thus when it comes to Dooku, he could be in the same boat. He would be saddened by his Master's decision, but he would already move past the shock of this and proceed to fight him to the death.

 

I could definitely see Qui-Gon trying to redeem Dooku, but I don't think he'd be unwilling to kill him if there was no other way.

 

"Xanatos"? I'm assuming thats from one of the prequel EU novels?

 

Yeah, Xanatos is his apprentice in the Jedi Apprentice series of young reader novels.

 

Yep. And it is for reasons like that one, that the Jedi needed to be purged. They were no different than the politicians of the Senate. Ironic that Kenobi lamented political behavior in AOTC, yet he was very much involved in the Jedi-Council's political scheme against the Chancellor.

 

What should the Jedi have done? They needed to get information on the Chancellor.

 

Why does everybody insist on busting Oppo Rancisis' chops?

 

I don't think OBW was being political at all. Acting is very un-political

Moreover, OBW seemed to be against the move to spy on the chancellor.

It's a tricky question, but I don't think that the Jedi needed to be purged. Changes could quite possibly come differently

 

If they stopped meditating on the future and opened their eyes... who knows how different things coulda been.

 

They should have focused more on the Living Force than they did, but that doesn't answer what the Jedi should have done in RotS in terms of Palpatine, which was what the question was referring to.

 

You don't get what I was saying. If the Jedi had kept their concentration on the present (in the first place) instead always looking to the future, they never would've been in the position of NEEDing to spy on the Chancellor.

As for the Living, unifying and whatever else they've named it... for me, there is only the Force.

 

I somewhat agree with both of you. Yes they should have focused more on the living force. But I think the Jedi get too much bashing on their over-focusing on the future. "Yoda said I should be mindful of the future" He didn't say only focus on the future. Yoda also says "hard to predict the future is." - hence I don't see him concerned with only doing what can't be done. "do or do not. There is no try."

 

I get it, but the Jedi as of RotS can't undo their mistakes in terms of the Force. I also don't buy the arguement that the Jedi wouldn't have had to spy on the Chancellor as Qui-Gon never seems to sense who Palpatine really is in TPM either. The position of Yoda and Obi-Wan in the Original Trilogy where they still try to probe the future, but also focus on the present is the correct one. There's also nothing that says the Jedi in the Prequels didn't focus on the here and now.

 

But that was because... he was never alone in a room with Palpatine! Yeah, that's it!
That's the ticket! The almighty Qui-Gon would have sensed Palpatine's true nature in an instant if it just hadn't been for those other people on the landing platform! Damn them!!!

 

Giving Qui-Gon's attitude towards the council was closely related to Anakin's attitude, there is the possiblity. However, as QG fought for Naboo, found the chosen one, revealed the presence of the Sith, and finished training his apprentice, it would not have been thought about in Qui-Gon's mind because he was too friggin busy.

 

Qui-Gon vs. Dooku in a fight to the death ala Mustafar.

That would be a duel with mixed emotions for both.

Qui-GOn would fight well but in the end I think it wouldn't go well for him.

Thoughts?

 

I also doubt that QG would fare well against Dooku, but you never know. He did hold his own with Maul for a while. He's no slouch with a lightsaber. However, the TPM duel also shows that OBW was about his level at the time, and we can only assume that OBW progressed to AOTC and ROTS, where he didn't stand a chance against Dooku... It's a difficult question...

 

1) Qui-Gon had neither the power and knowledge of Yoda, nor the unleashed force potential of Anakin. Qui-Gon would have been beaten rather quickly by Dooku.

2) Qui-Gon would never have joined Dooku. Not in a million years. Qui-Gon may have been a maverick, and at loggerheads with most other Jedi, but he NEVER would betrayed the Jedi. Unlike Dooku, Qui-Gon was neither vain nor arrogant. The traits that allowed Sidious to manipulate a once esteemed and noble Jedi into turning to the darkside were not present in Qui-Gon.

 

It's difficult to gauge Qui-Gon's true potential. True, he lost a lightsaber duel to a junior, but also taught Yoda the secrets of the Force. Had he had the ambition, he could have not only been on the Council, he could have probably put Mace and Yoda to shame. But he was a spiritual man, whereas Mace and Yoda were men of religion. And as for fencing, Dooku lost to Anakin, so he was by no means invincible.

 

Not invincible, but then again it was the unleashing of Anakin's darkside potential in the guise of hammer blows (not to mention it came as a shock) that defeated Dooku, not his particular skill with sabre.

Qui-Gon may have had a better shot than Obi-Wan as he had experience sparring with Dooku, although this also goes both ways and does not take into account that Dooku had changed his style somewhat following his ascension to the Sith.

 

I don't think Qui-gon would join Count Dooku but maybe Qui-gon would try to bring Count Dooku back.

 

What strikes me in the dialogue between Dooku and OBW is that Dooku wished Qui-Gon was there. Now, Dooku didn't tell any lies in that scene, so he most likely meant that as well. I'm not arguing that Dooku wanted Qui-Gon to help him defeat Sideous, but more of as a political and spiritual consultant.

Saying that Qui-Gon taught Yoda about the force is wrong. He taught him one aspect of the force, which is quite admirable. Perhaps QG's insights with the force is what Dooku believed would help him also. Dooku is quite amibigous in AOTC, and his motives are equally so.

 

Qui-Gon may have only taught Yoda one skill, but it was probably the most important lesson ever learned by any Jedi, ever, and Yoda hadn't been able to figure it out after studying the Force for the better part of a millennium. It would be like a priest teaching the Pope how to speak with God, it's a pretty significant accomplishment.

 

I think discovering how to utilize the force, the discovery of how to become a Jedi is the most important skill to be learned by a Jedi. There are two ways to look at becoming a force ghsot:

1. Yoda's explanation to Anakin: Rejoice for those who become one with the force. Consequently, becoming a force ghost is defying that tradition - and Yoda is defying that tradition himself.
2. A higher understanding of the force, and more power - in the OT we see it used for the best of the galaxy.

I know this is very simplified, I just don't think it's right to exaggerate QG's discovery, as he was taught it himself - he just passed on his knowledge. But, that is one of the reasons why I posted the "do the prequels do justice to Yoda" thread, simply because I don't see how Yoda contributes much...