Would ROTS Have Been A Better Film If It Had Included More Suited Vader?

A whole movie of suited Vader killing Jedi would never work.It would just be pandering to the fanboys. Besides, we saw enough of Vader in action in the OT. The PT was supposed to show what led up to him becoming Vader.

Um, were talking about DARTH VADER here, the single greatest icon in film history. What MADE Star Wars in the first place and who's back Lucasfilm's empire was built upon. And you honestly believe a film devoted entirely to him wouldn't work? Okey dokey. Well, look at what just merely alluding to him with a finaly brief cameo at the end did for the PT. Literally BILLIONS of dollars were earned from two very bad films, and just one ok one. Darth Vader the icon is what the fans cared about and what kept them coming back in droves: the desire to see the Dark Lord once again. That's why Lucasfilm had his image plastered all over kingdom come with lit lightsaber in hand no less. Because HE is what the fans wanted to see, and George knew it. Not Anakin. Not Padme. Not Windu. Not Obi-wan. And to a lesser extent, not even the Emperor and Yoda. Hell, he's even on the cover of the damned DVD for heavens sake! Had Episode III culminated as I have suggested, concentrating soley on the Jedi purge, with Darth Vader leading the onslaught, it would have probably exceeded even Titanic in total box office gross, and had it been done with OT care and craftmanship, it could have even surpassed TESB as the greatest of all the Star Wars films. And that my friend is a fact, not an opinion. Search your feelings. You know, don't you?

 

>>>> And that my friend is a fact, not an opinion.

Wow.
Are you David Brent....?





>>>> Search your feelings. You know, don't you?

'Fraid not, my friend.


-JR

 

A whole movie of suited Vader totally goes aganist the entire point of the PT. It isn't about Vader at all, it's about Anakin. Lucas did the absolutely right thing in only giving us a few minutes with the suit. Imagine how much less we'd care about his character if his Anakin life was crammed into a single movie. Seeing kewl!!1! suited Vader for an entire extra movie makes no sense. Why make the PT at all then? We have plenty of him in the OT. The PT is about character development, not about making billions of dollars with a Vader movie. If you don't like George's vision than that's your perogative, but it's a vision that is far from flawed.

 

The marketing of ROTS showed a suited Vader to reel in the non-obsessed public; to show the link between the pop-culture iconic mask of OT Darth Vader and the final chapter of the new trilogy. Once roped in, the mere casual fan would stay for the curiousity of the storyline: how did Anakin wind up in that suit?
ROTS wasn't about suited Vader, it was about Anakin becoming more machine than man and what led to it (losing his friends, wife, child, being manipulated,etc.).

 

I 100% agree with you that a whole movie of suite Vader is too much, but how come Lucas showed 90% of all suited Vader scenes in both ROTS trailers? How come there was a big Suite Darth Vader at Burger King as soon as I walked in the store? How come one of the biggest sellers was the Darth Vader mask that has a breathing attachment to it? I dont think Lucas should have showed any suited Vader in the trailers, cause that is not what the movie is about.

My whole point is, we agree that the whole prequels is about Anakin, the human being, and how he turned to Darth Vader, but when it came to marketing, and to put fannies in the seats to make the most money possible, it was suited Vader, suite Vader, suited Vader. I have no problem with Lucas trying to make as much money as possible, but when you throw suited Vader in everyones face in the marketing of a movie that has 2 minutes of screentime for him, and then people bitch about why there isn't more suited Vader, it seems Lucas was disingenious in the end.

 

For one thing, they couldn't have shown 100% of Vader in the Trailers because the suited version appeared for only about 5 minutes or less.

Secondly, the reason they showed the iconic mask so often in ads and marketing was because that is exactly what Episode III was all about. Anakin becoming Darth Vader. Everything about the film is to reveal each of the steps in Anakin's path leading to that living prison. To reach the ultimate fate worse than death half-way or even two-thirds through the film would have lessoned the impact. To have the ultimate duel, and then have Suited Vader dueling one or more times afterward would have been inticlimactic. The drama was in the journey taking him from Jedi hero to Sith villain. The Shadow of what Anakin would become loomed over everything in this movie. It's only fitting that the marketing reflect this.

 

Yes this movie was about Anakin turning into Vader,but let's face it,they miled the suit for all it was worth.And I think it was exactly as you said,to get the public that wasn't obsessed with Star Wars interested.I would have liked maybe one or two more scenes.Not an entire movie.We have the OT for that.

 

I would have preferred no suited vader.. no James Earl Jones voice over.
I think the last shot of Anakin and Palpatine should have been of
crippled, mechanical aqualung Anakin overlooking the construction
of the vader suit, rather than the Death Star. I mean, we get it,
they build a death star. There a death star in 4 of the 6 films.
ANH and ROTJ, obviously, the plans in AOTC and the structure in ROTS.
Not to mention that having Vader in on the planning stands against
his opposition to it ANH.

 

that would have been an interesting shot.And just because Vader is there on the ship looking at the Death Star doesn't mean he approves of it.In ANH he is just saying for the guy to beat his chest about something technological.In the entire saga we see the man vs. nature conflict.And nature always wins.

 

If LFL hadn't promoted Vader in the suit, fans would have been complaining that LFL dropped the ball on promoting the film. Sheesh.

There was still lots of advertising featuring other major characters. M&Ms had characters from the whole saga on their packaging.

The images of the final duel were all over the place. Yoda, Sidious, Grievous, the droids, and clonetroopers had some spotlight as well as others.

I hope they use Vader in the live action TV show. They've got a new suit. They just need an actor with the right build to wear it and then convince James Earl Jones to do some voicework. And modern technology could show a suited Vader in action in ways we haven't seen before.

 

I can't imagine more suited Vader a "bad" thing. if it was just a few minutes of footage. Anything more may mute the effect of him in the OT.

 

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I said 90% of suited vader were in the trailers:

1. When he rises from the table
2. When he folds his arms next to The Emperor

The only thing they left out was him breaking free and yelling, "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!," and his brief walk next to Tarkin on the destroyer before folding his arms. That is all he is in ROTS, and we see most of it in the trailers!

Again, none of this should have been showed in the trailers, the PT wasn't about Darth Vader, it was about Anakin, and how he became Darth Vader. Suited Vader, other than being built, is totally irrelevant in the PT. Lucas should have focused his marketing campaign on Hayden, because he is the face of the PT, not Darth Vader in the mask. But Lucas knew that Darth Vader in the suit people love and that would be a good selling point. Did anyone watch the Apprentice about marketing SW? The group that won showed more Suited Vader in their marketing campaign.

That is why I always get mad when Lucas says, "Alot of older fans just wanted to see suited Vader running around killing people for three movies." Then he turns around and markets a whole movie on suited Vader who speaks two sentences and is in the movie for 2 minutes. Sometimes Lucas wants it both ways.

 

i would have liked to have seen more of Anakin as pre-suit Vader (hereafter referred to as Vaderkin) hunting down the Jedi; i don't mind that we only see Vader-In-Suit briefly... this paves the way for the OT, right?

IMHO, this is how i would have liked the PT to have gone:

0. there is no TPM. just erase it from history.

1. AOTC (with some editing / additions) would be the real Episode 1

2. ROTS would be Episode 2; Order 66 has been issued, Anakin has turned to the dark side and become Darth Vader (Vaderkin), but he hasn't had the final duel with Obi Wan yet and isn't in the suit.

3. Episode 3 would open with Vaderkin hunting down the Jedi and basically being a viscious killer. on the side, Padme would still be alive and secretly forming the rebellion behind her husbands back. the film would end much the same as ROTS with Vaderkin killing Padme, ObiWan beating Vaderkin, Vaderkin becoming Darth Vader-in-suit, ObiWan and Yoda going into hiding, the end...

 

I don't mind that it didn't show so much suited Vader. I was more interested in seeing the story of Anakin's downward spiral myself. I do see where casual fans are coming from though. The content doesn't match the billing. 90+ % of the merchandise out there is suited Vader. Every trailer showed suited Vader rising. The sequel book "Dark Lord" has Suited Vader plastered right on the front of it. Hey, their job is to make money over at Lucas Arts, but surely they realize that some people are gonna feel a little jipped when all the see is suited Vader to hype ROTS and then you get very little in actuality.

 

I don't think we need more suited Vader. ROTS was supposed to show how Anakin fell to the dark side and became Darth Vader. Anakin's journey and his transition from good to evil is the most important thing to show in the film. We can see plenty of suited Vader in the OT. The PT is supposed to be different by showing us how Anakin became a monster.

There's no reason to see the exact same things we see in the OT. ROTS would seem like nothing more than a remake if that was the case. Taking the Anakin/Vader character in a different direction and focusing on his development creates a richer story.

 

It's times like this that I wonder why I take the trouble of long, drawn out explanations when it's clear that the people it's intended for don't even bother to read it. Why question something if you don't care to know the answer?

 

i think we all wanted *more* RotS and star wars in general. between suited vader and pre-suited vader, i would have liked to see more pre-suited vader fighting jedi. GL left us wanting more.

 

If you are referring to me, I read your posts and I agree with them. I also agree with the notion, as I said in my reply, that the marketing department was simply doing their job, but I can see where some people who wanted more are coming from even though I am not one of them.

 

I think maybe an episode where Ani/Vader is on a Jedi hunt would be cool.BUT there is no way Padme would have been still in love with him.And people keep saying the 3rd one was to show his falling to the dark side.Well if we erase the Phantom Menace and have Anakin at the age he was in AOTC, we can show his fall maybe more convincingly.I really wanted to see some of the Jedi training.It would have been awesome to see Anakin take the trials.We can establissh Anakin as a kid through flashbacks.

 

To be fair, that book actually is about suited Vader.

 

To be fair, it also waits until teh 9th chapter to get to him






$CZ1$

 

To be fair, that book actually is about suited Vader.

To be even more fair, the entire OT is actually about suited Vader,
according to GL...

 

It most likely would but heck as it stands
now it´s still the best frikkkin movie
I´ve ever seen!

 

Rolly, how much did Lucas pay you for this post? And rememember, this is for posterity, so be honest.

 

I'll forgive the insult but only because of the Princess Bride referance.

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