CT Would Star Wars be "dead" without TESB and ROTJ?

There's an interesting discussion going on over in the PT section debating whether the OT needed the existence of the PT to remain relevant in the hearts and minds of future generation.

Any suggestion that the original Star Wars needed the PT in order to stay beloved, and relevant, is absurd to me.

However it did get me thinking about more interesting conjecture. Would the original Star Wars, huge and beloved in it's own right, still have remained extremely popular had it's sequels never been made?

Would Star Wars be more like The Wizard of Oz, passed on from generation to generation, or Avatar (sans sequels at this point), a huge phenomenon that, by and large, hasn't remained too fresh or relevant on the general public's collective mind?

 

In my opinion, no. It was a huge hit in 1977 but that would not have been enough to keep generation after generation interested. It would certainly have remained a classic, even cult classic, like 2001, Jaws (even though those had sequels as well, though far inferior) or E.T. But I don't think it would have created a younger fan base without the sequels, special editions AND the PT. It might have been mostly forgotten, except maybe for a small group of fans that grew up with it. But I don't think it would have impressed the younger generation very much. Eventually there MIGHT have been a remake of some sort with new CGI technology, as is apparently happening with many 70s and 80s classics these days. But even that might not have created much interest in the original among the younger generation.

 

This is nice, and I agree with a lot of it, but it doesn't address the question asked.

Do you think the original Star Wars would have remained relevant with future generations if it were a stand alone film, without it's follow ups TESB and ROTJ?

 

Star Wars would require both those films to live on in the memories of future generations. The first was only a first parter in a much larger story as we came to see. Those early sequels cemented the image of the franchise before it got merchandised out. Their have been plenty of Star Wars versions since then in all sorts of media. Today Star Wars has become global and has a thriving fanbase. Those sequels had the ingredients that allowed future writers to draw so much material out and expand upon. I'd put the ESB as a bottleneck for so much more fan service adventures. The visuals from those later works also contributed greatly to Filmography right up to the present Rogue One A Star Wars Story and we clearly notice the similarities between the recent addition to Star Wars and those early works in the style, texture & emotion. The ESB and ROTJ launched Star Wars into orbit.

 

I love each movie in the OT on it's own merits but I don't believe without the second two movies, Star Wars would of continued to be as large of a part of pop culture as it is today. I can't speak for everyone but I love SW for it's characters and how they continue to grow and change as the narrative progresses through the 3 movies. I like seeing Luke going from seemingly knowing nothing of the Force to gaining a better understanding of it and developing his skills as a Jedi. I enjoy seeing the romance blossom between Han and Leia. I personally don't see myself enjoying the world of Star Wars as much as I do if ANH was the only movie to of been made and I am sure that would be true for a good number of people as well.

 

Pretty much the same answer I gave for the PT version of the question--not dead, but not fully alive in the sense of it being a current, annual film series. Without ESB and ROTJ I could see a scenario similar to Jaws. Maybe Lucas would've signed off on some some alternate, wonkier sequels that he had little if anything to do with, instead moving on to a range of different projects. The Lucas equivalent to Empire of the Sun, maybe? I long for that world.

 

While ANH alone likely would have still become a classic, it likely would be like how Avatar currently is (early 2017). The Star Wars franchise likely would not be as big or popular as it currently is without TESB and ROTJ. Even with them, SW still fell it a sump from the mid 80s to mid 90s. No matter if you are a fan of them or not, both the SE and the PT gave Star Wars more boost and further cemented the franchise into popular culture and away from a niche status.

 

It probably would have the same standing that stuff like THE WIZARD OF OZ, JAWS, and E.T. THE EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL currently have. It was too widely beloved to be forgotten, but it likely wouldn't be the cultural behemoth it currently is.

 

It wouldn't be remembered the same way. IMO TESB is the most important film of the entire saga and in many ways is the heart of the entire saga. SW was a fun/awesome standalone adventure film... but TESB is what made the story into something more epic

 

I would say TESB is the most important sequel. However considering there literally could be no TESB without the original Star Wars, I'm gonna award ANH the "most important film of the entire saga". You can still show that film to a total newb without it needing a single prequel or sequel to stand strong on it's own two feet.

 

Star Wars/ANH shattered the box office records in 1977-1978 on first release in North America, like no picture before it, and already became a US pop-cultural phenomenon before the further episodes went out, especially the little masterpiece ESB...Then basically spreaded around the world, but to a far lesser degree for the general audience (except maybe for the UK).

But indeed, ESB and ROTJ made a lot to settle and create the mythology, the general arc of the story becoming more and more mature, complex, and tragedy-orented (the Skywalker family and the tragic story of Anakin Skywalker, backstory hints etc...).

But I tend to think that even without the sequels, Star Wars/ANH would always have remained something special compared to other cult/classic successful movies.

It has been considered for a long time now the most popular film ever made in the US behind Gone With the Wind.

 

Keep in mind that only Gone with the Wind has sold more tickets than the 1977 Star Wars film.

If the '77 film were all that there ever were of Star Wars, I think it would still be forever regarded as a film classic. I also think that some things about it would have become part of our culture for the rest of our lives:

1. the phrase "May the Force be with you."

2. a general knowledge of the main characters

3. Halloween costumes of the main characters

4. recognition of John Williams's Star Wars theme

plus some things that I am probably forgetting

Also consider the happy circumstance that the original Star Wars film would be widely available on both DVD and blu-ray for less than $10.

 

I think the film would be remembered. I mean, how many people genuinely care about RoboCop 2 or 3? The original is still a classic, and it didn't even have near the widespread cultural impact of the original film. However, without TESB and RotJ, and without specifically the things TESB did to the series overall and the level of quality of that film, I don't think Star Wars would have the same cultural standing. The original film would be remembered as an American film classic, but I don't think we'd see little kids wearing t-shirts with Darth Vader on them to this day. It wouldn't be the cross-generational phenomenon it remains, and I actually feel it needs a little bit of a boost every few years to stay that way. The PT didn't "save" Star Wars, but it along with the SE (despite my grievances with both, particularly the latter) , the EU, and the Power of the Force toyline that started up in the mid 90s kept Star Wars in the public eye in a massive way. Similarly, there was a drop in relevance and overall reputation in the years between RotS and TFA; the series wasn't dead by any means, but The Clone Wars wasn't enough to keep it vital, especially when you had things like Kinect Star Wars being released. The Disney acquisition boosted Star War to the forefront of the public eye, and implemented a level of quality control that had been lost, which restored much of its reputation.

This is a long way of saying: no, Star Wars wouldn't be "dead" without TESB and RotJ, in that it wouldn't be forgotten. But it wouldn't be the vibrant, thriving series it is now, not one where seven year-olds now are as enamored with it as seven year-olds were forty years ago. It would be one of those classic movies that gets a comic book continuation series from IDW and a few cool posters from Mondo for anniversaries, but that's it.

 

Wizard of Oz is still relevant over 75 years later and there were no sequels to speak of.

Star Wars is at least on that same pedestal of one of a kind, groundbreaking moments in film history. No question it would still be what it is today in the hearts and minds of fans, just minus the corporate fanfare.

 

Without Empire or Jedi, I think there's a distinct possibility that Star Wars wouldn't have been any more memorable than all the various low-budget sci-fi films of the '70s and '80s. Logan's Run, Barbarella, Enemy Mine, Krull, Legend, etc.

Star Wars did have higher production value than those and more impressive special effects, so it probably still would have stood out as one of the best of it's genre, but it certainly wouldn't have the gravity and significance that it does today. I see some people in here comparing Star Wars to Wizard of Oz, but honestly I think some people may even consider Star Wars to be nothing more than a sci-fi twist on Wizard of Oz if it weren't for the sequels and the whole saga attached to it.

 

Anything's possible I suppose. If the definition of "dead" is the current state of The Wizard of Oz, or Avatar sans the sequels, then I don't know.
I'm not exactly aware of how culturally important those films are. I don't think SW would necessarily be dead at this point if ANH was the only film,
but like others have pointed out, it wouldn't be the behemoth it is today.

Rather than comparing SW to the above two films, I compare it to something like Night of the Living Dead, simply because I'm more aware of it's affect on culture even in 2017.
NotLD never had the popularity that SW did, but for the budget it was filmed on, it has maintained an impressive fan base for almost 5 decades. That's probably because a ton of similar media
came after it, much of which could almost be considered tributary. I won't say the Walking Dead is a tribute franchise, but it can easily spawn an interest for the older film in younger audiences.
I hadn't seen the original NotLD until 2012 when it was recommended to me by friends on an unrelated forum. It was awesome. The first Zombie anything I ever liked.

A lot of filmmakers ate off of what George Lucas was doing with ANH: Star Crash, the original Battlestar Galactica series, The Last Starfighter, Aliens etc. I think if SW ended with
ANH, there's a good chance filmmakers would have spent more time trying to make the next SW like movie, in order to fill the demand for it. Eventually someone may have done a really good job.
Under those circumstances, I think SW could have an impressive following today, even if it was only a single film.

 

I find the Wizard of Oz to be a comparable comparison.

But her's the rub, Oz did have sequels. It is a franchise. Quite a lucrative one over the last decade or so. But the original far eclipses the franchise, which interestingly enough is the opposite with SW.

 

Oh, I'm sure Oz is comparable, but my knowledge of it isn't.
I saw the original decades ago, and none of the sequels. I don't know when the first sequels came out, or what sort of influence it had on films at the time.
The strategy for marketing is also important to consider. George Lucas seemed pretty smart when it came to getting a product out there and making sure that Star Wars
was never completely out of sight out of mind. A lot of it seemed to depend on whether or not he felt like keeping it relevant.

 

Oz has a bunch of sequels, prequels, reinterpretations, animated spin-offs, and TV shows. The Wiz had a large impact particularly on the black community, where it's considered a classic, but didn't do all that well at the box office (mirroring the 1939 Oz in that respect), and the novel Wicked, a prequel focusing on the Wicked Witch, was adapted into one of the most successful Broadway shows of all time, and still running. The kinda-prequel starring Michelle Williams and James Franco a couple years ago did extremely well financially though, making almost 500 million at the box office alone.

But most of it's various additions haven't made any major cultural or artistic splash. Adding up all the many additions to the world of Oz and you still don't have remotely the impact of Empire or Jedi.

Driving home the idea that Oz didn't really need a franchise to remain popular.

 

Yeah. Oz definitely isn't what I would consider dead then. Sounds like a lot has been done with it, and a lot more will probably be done before they lay it to rest. If they lay it to rest.

The difficult thing to consider about keeping ANH a stand alone movie for all time is that there was such a demand for more at the time that George would have had to be a complete fool not to do a sequel unless it was somehow impossible to do one.
And if he didn't, what would be the point in continuing to keep it relevant forever afterward? Of course, he could have then sold the rights to Disney in 2012, and let them do all the sequels. Instant resurgence!

 

None of those films you mentioned had half the success that STAR WARS had. We’re talking about a film that was literally the biggest film of all time.

 

I think Star Wars would be remembered alongside the likes of Casablanca, The Godfather, Jaws, etc... But it wouldn't be the cult phenomenon that it is today.

None of us would be here right now if it wasn't for ESB & ROTJ. Those movies (along with the prequels, expanded universe & now the sequels) gave so much more life to Star Wars, they really made it a "universe" instead of just some movies.