Lit Would the death of the force be possible like Kreia claimed?

Darth Traya/Kreia claimed in The Sith Lords that the Jedi Exile could have caused the death of the force, she wanted to destroy it because she hated it, despite being a force user, but my main question is could the death of the force have been possible at all? And exactly what would have happened if her plan had been successful?

All of this being considered Kreia had a better chance of letting Darth Nihilus accomplish it himself, just let him do his thing and feed his hunger, devouring everything and everyone and eventually Nihilus would have brought her goals to reality, or come close to it, seems like Kreia was foolish to stop him if she wanted the death of the force because his hunger and destruction would cause it to become true, endlessly destroying the entire galaxy pursued by hunger.

Then again of course the Yuuzhan Vong winning the war would have done it too, after they slaughtered everyone and ruined the entire GFFA the death of the force might have been possible, thanks to them stamping it out, or it would be serous wound in the force, that much death and destruction, in two galaxies, then in others as the next invasion left the current wrecked galaxy to find yet another one, thousands of years later.

 

Only if every living being in the galaxy was completely destroyed. From humans, to ewoks, to the smallest animals and lifeforms. Then of course we know there's life outside the galaxy so someone would have to take care of that as well. Honestly, unless some type of bioweapon was created that spread on its own from planet to planet, I couldn't see it happening.

 

I love the story from KOTOR II, but I'm a bit critical of Kriea's attempt to destroy the Force. The game never really convinced me that she would succeed, thus it seemed more like the final actions of a desperate Sith trying to hurt what she despised most, the Force.

I think to understand if her plan could have worked, we need to better understand the concept of the exile being a wound in the Force. Every time I play the game, I never manage to fully understand what exactly being a "wound" meant, thus I was never convinced Kriea would succeed (however, I do admire the attempt).

 

Is "death of the force" meant to be taken literally, or is it supposed to mean that Kreia wanted to erase the influence of force users on the galaxy by, well, killin' 'em?

I figure the way to kill the force is to make every sensitive to either die or turn away from the force the same way the exile did. That the exiles "wound" would be something that completely cut off any capacity for sentient life to feel the force. Then the force would be dead in the same way Nietzsche said god is dead, a metaphor for saying that the world would be left without any spiritual or divine guidance.

 

My understanding of what Kreia was trying to do is that she was trying to remake the Star Wars galaxy into the Yuuzhan Vong galaxy - everything severed from the Force.

You can't destroy the Force, any more than you can destroy gravity, but you might be able to cut all living things from it on a cosmic scale. Such an act would mean that people would forget about the Force, soon coming to believe that it had never existed in the first place, which, from a certain point of view, would mean it had been destroyed.

 

I thought she was an obviously insane person spouting gibberish personally.

 

"The True Sith Empire is 100,000 years old and Korriban is on the edge of it." (that sure would have been interesting if it was true.)

 

I do wonder if The Force created the very first life.

 

Yes, but the Vong exist without the Force.

I think, to kill the force, one would have to cause a lot of death and destruction, as the Exile (and the Vong) did, enough to sever every sentient being's connection with the Force.

 

Whatever the case, if she somehow managed to actually destroy the Force (and I'm always wary of having that be the summation of her goals; it's something of an oversimplification)...it would be like suddenly destroying the atoms that form everything. So far as we understand the cosmology of the universe, even those are are deaf to the Force, such as the Vong, don't necessarily live "outside" of it in the traditional notion of the Force being...hell, I don't know...a river and the Vong being a fish that just happened to leap onto dry land. It's more complex than that.

The Force is a cosmologically necessary entity in the Star Wars universe. To destroy it may very well destroy existence.

 

They can't be seen/sensed inside it, but presumably they're still a part of it to some extent, as life simply can't exist without it.

 

Where is that stated?

 

Meant the opposite. Life creates the Force, so as long as there's life, there will be the Force. It's why I pointed out originally for the Force to be destroyed all lifeforms would have to be destroyed, because it is generated by the existence of life.

 

It's unclear. I'd argue that the Force has some separate existence from beings, although there is an equally compelling reason to think the contrary. The Force is "an energy field created by all living things" but it also "binds the galaxy together". This means that a lot of things might happen if she succeeds.

1. The Force is destroyed. Because life is contingent on the Force, this kills all living things. Because I'm pedantic, I'll do this as a proof.

A. The Force is necessary for life.
B. All living things are tied up in the Force.
∴ The Force is necessary for all living things to live.

2. The Force has no external nature at all. It is entirely created through the existence of living things. This means that for Kreia to succeed, she has to kill everything including herself in order to achieve her goal. While this is possible, I doubt she'd follow through with it. Otherwise, she'd have left Nihilus be.

3. The Force is destroyed but it actually doesn't kill. People are "broken" from the Force because there is nothing to be tethered to. This, likely, would be Kreia's ideal scenario. Remember, she hates the Force because A) she believes that it has something approaching an active will and is basically a really, really resentful Fatalist who sees a way to actually end this and B) she believes that it basically discourages self development because you can basically rely on it to do your work for you.

There's a couple other possibilities too. The simplest two being that she's lying to the Exile in order to goad her into killing her. I don't particularly believe that one. I believe that the ONLY time Kreia is telling the truth is on Malachor. The other explanation is as someone said, it's an impotent remark based on her inherent self loathing.

But we have to also remember that Kreia's doing, like...seven different things at once throughout the game. She's getting revenge on her former truimvirs, she's destroying the Sith because they're purposeless in their slaughter, she's justifying herself to the remaining members of the Jedi Council, she's killing them in order to ensure that if the Jedi continue, they are free from things such as the dogmatism of Atris, tangentially helping the Republic prepare for whatever threat Revan found, and she's teaching the Exile. Oh, and if she can, she'll kill off the Force.

Out of all these things, the most important is the Exile. Not just in what the Exile represents to Kreia as someone who turned away from the Force but also as a student. Everything, absolutely everything she's doing, I'd argue, she is doing for the Exile. Up to and including trying to kill her at the end. The kill off the Force thing? I think she wants to but I think she wants, more than anything, for the Exile to continue to exist. To quote the Princess Bride:

"I would as soon destroy a stained glass window as an artist such as yourself."

 

if the exile and Nihlius had joined forces with the mission to destroy the galaxy, it might have happened

 

Qui-Gon does say that life could not exist without the midichlorians, which is not the same thing but a similar idea.

 

In any event, the late NJO novels, particularly TUF, carry the implication that it was loosing their connection to the Force that caused the Vong to develop their cultural fixation on pain and death as representing the ultimate truth of the universe. If loosing the Force does that to a species... well, trying to destroy the Force/cut everything off from it seems like a really bad idea.

 

I would say that TUF is the highest canon in terms of NJO.

 

But Kreia didn't want the destruction of all life. She wanted life to continue and that was impossible with Nihilus. She even did pretty much all she could to take down Nihilus. In the game it is made abundantly clear that she despises Nihilus.

As for the death of the force, she believed in severing all of the force connection. I don't think this is possible, I don't think one person could create an echo large enough, but she was a bit insane.

Exactly.
Her former friends and comrades of the Jedi order betrayed her and threw her out of the order. Her Sith pupils also turned on her and humiliated her. The exile is pretty much the only one she has left and being so used to treachery she thought that betrayal was inevitable. She would rather force the exiles hand than be surprised again.

 

Yes, but Kreia didn't know.