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Would the Jedi Council have been able to REFUSE Anakin's appointment ?

Discussion in 'Archive: Revenge of the Sith' started by DUGGY, Oct 17, 2005.

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  1. DUGGY

    DUGGY Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 23, 2005
    Did they really have to accept Anakin ?. If they had deemed him unfit/ready to sit on the Council, do you think they would have been able to say NO to PALPATINE?. or did they really have no choice?. it's not like what Palp's is doing is normal. could they have told the Senate/Chancellor to stay out of their affairs?.

    Anakin: "the Council chooses it's own members, they will never accept this "
    Palpatine: " oh i think they will, i don't think they will refuse an exacutive order ".

    Forgetting why they really let him on the Council( spying ). do you think they could have said NO?.
    and did accepting it, put the nail in the Coffin as far as they and Anakin are concerned?.i mean all the misstrust it created?.

    I think that would have been the only way to foil Palp's plan . no Anakin on the Council , no confusion about Treason. even Anakin expected them to refuse. so i doubt he would have held it against them. and we all know they would have found out through Anakin that Palp's was the Sith anyway. as Palpatine confessesit to Anakin.

     
  2. SLAVE2

    SLAVE2 Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2000
    Yes I believe they could have turned down Palpatine's request:

    Obi-Wan: Anakin, the only reason the Council has approved your appointment is because the Chancellor trusts you.

    They accepted it because they thought they were outsmarting Palpatine, but were actually playing into his hands. They definatly had the choice.
     
  3. sithrules70

    sithrules70 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 28, 2005
    im not sure if they could have.palps had even more power than before and even if they can refuse it it wouldn't be wise to stress the jedi/chancellor relation any further.
     
  4. YYZ-2112

    YYZ-2112 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2004
    Yes they absolutely could have 100% refused the appointment. But it was tactically unwise, since they wanted to keep an eye on Palpatine. Palpatine knew this ofcourse, and how the Jedi would react to the appointment, which is why he did it. By making the Jedi become at odds with Anakin, Palpatine gains greater leverage in gaining Anakin's loyalty against the Jedi. And when they come for him, he cashes in his chips.
     
  5. Evil_Imp

    Evil_Imp Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2005
    I think they could refuse. Talk about overstepping your bounds. Palpatine had no right to suggest it, and to suggest that he cannot rely on the Council. were'nt they fighting a war for him?, and the Republic?. they could refuse.
     
  6. JediCouncilMaster

    JediCouncilMaster Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 23, 2005
    Well of course. They're the Jedi Council! Masters make the decisions. Like what Obi Wan said "Our loyalties are to the Senate not to it's leader who managed to stay in office long after his term expired."
     
  7. sithrules70

    sithrules70 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 28, 2005
    Well of course. They're the Jedi Council! Masters make the decisions. Like what Obi Wan said "Our loyalties are to the Senate not to it's leader who managed to stay in office long after his term expired."

    i agree they could have but its again a no win situation,if they agree well ROTS shows what happen if they agree and if they dont they get into more trouble with the very man who had so much power that technicly was the republic itself ,chose your poison they say[face_mischief] ,damn that palps cunning evil snake[face_devil]
     
  8. thechozn1

    thechozn1 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 15, 2005
    Yeah, I think they could have, but Palps had already foreseen that they wouldn't IMO. He knew they would want to have someone keep an eye on him, and of course, what a perfect time for him to groom his new apprentice.

    They were their own private entity. They served the public, but that didn't mean they were to be used at the elected official's discretion. They do what they feel is in the best interest of the galaxy as a whole. If that happens to be against the law at any particular time I don't think that would phase them.


    Hell, they tried to kill the Emperor as soon as he took power. I don't think they blindly abide by the law.
     
  9. arbed

    arbed Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 24, 2004
    Oh, no, here we go again......Damned if they do, damned if they don't. Here we go round the mulberry bush, the mulberry bush....
     
  10. DUGGY

    DUGGY Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 23, 2005
    why?. it's a simple question . i don't believe anyone has pointed blame anywhere. it's not a blame Question. Dang!!!!! :_| and besides , SW aint all sunshine and roses ya know.
     
  11. arbed

    arbed Jedi Knight star 5

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    Feb 24, 2004
    No not placing blame. But people in above posts have been pointing out how accepting Anakin is trouble for the Jedi, and refusing Anakin is trouble for the Jedi. A no win situation. I believe that a few people have pointed that out on this page. Palps had them screwed and the Jedi didn't even fully realize it. That's what I meant, by damned if they do, damned if they don't. No win all around. Right, no one's placing blame, YET.

    EDIT: Correction: I AM blaming Palps. LOL
     
  12. WedgeFitso

    WedgeFitso Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2005
    I'm sure they could have, just by the way Palps says it. He doesn't say they have to do it rather he doesn't think they would refuse it. It would seem to me that if they had to do follow the order Palps would have said something like "If I order it they will have to" or something to that extent. I feel that the Jedi felt that they had to follow Palps executive order for PR reasons. Palps' poropaganda had painted them as people against the Chancellor and selfish really. Any it would look good to deny the golden boy of the Republic a spot on the Council in direct defience of an executive oder from an extremely popular chancellor. That could be of huge propaganda value to Palps and he could say, "Look how selfish the Council is. They don't even want to share power with their great hero, and that they make a mockery of our great system of government by defying my order. And as I act as your representitive the Jedi defy of the Senate, the citizens of the Republic, and the very ideals of the Republic themselves." A PR master like Palps could make this situation very helpful to his cause.

    EDIT: This is all of course dependent on the Jedi really being dead set against Anakin being on the Council, and not wanting him to be a spy.
     
  13. yoshifett

    yoshifett Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2004
    They could have. They are simple to blind to see the end of their noses by they time they realize that Anakin REALLY has some issues he needs to work out before he can be placed at the lynchpin of a treasonous spy mission.
    Think about how long Mace realized this: "Young Mace...only now, at the end, do you understand."

     
  14. arbed

    arbed Jedi Knight star 5

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    Feb 24, 2004
    Hey, we cool, Duggy?
     
  15. thechozn1

    thechozn1 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 15, 2005
    Mace: "I don't trust him".

    Council Member: "Well, who else don't we trust?"

    Mace: "Palpatine. "The darkside surrounds him"

    Coucil Member: "OH! THAT'S IT! Let's put them together. Why didn't I think of this before... all in favor..."

    Coucil as a whole: "I"



    Brightness abounded on this decision. [face_whistling]
     
  16. arbed

    arbed Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 24, 2004
    It's even worse, theChozn1. Substitute Yoda for "council member". Oh man, oh man. Brightness indeed.
     
  17. DUGGY

    DUGGY Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 23, 2005
    we coooool. :cool:
     
  18. thechozn1

    thechozn1 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 15, 2005
    You know, I had Yoda written down, and then changed it because I didn't feel like the flames from Yoda fanboys and #2 because I didn't want to sit here for 10 min. and figure out how to say everything bass ackwards like him. But yeah you're right.
     
  19. arbed

    arbed Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 24, 2004
    LOL back ass backwards....LOL You know I was gonna rewrite it with Yoda speak, but just too dang hard. LOL
     
  20. EwokThatCried

    EwokThatCried Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 22, 2003
    They could have refused and then Palpatine would have simply ammended the Constitution even further, stripping the Jedi Order of it's autonomy completely.

    He already severed the direct ties between the Council and the Senate.
     
  21. ChozenOne

    ChozenOne Jedi Master

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2004
    I think the only way the jedi could have really done things differently would have been to grant Anakin the rank of master. That would have given Anakin less animosity towards, and more trust in the jedi. just my 2 cents.
     
  22. EwokThatCried

    EwokThatCried Jedi Padawan star 4

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    May 22, 2003
    If they gave Anakin the rank of Master he would have gone into the archives to access ancient sith records, discovered he could not find anything about "cheating death" or "creating life" and then gone straight to Palpatine for the answer anyway.

     
  23. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    If they had, it might've not gone well for the Jedi. Palpatine would've been prepared for that eventuality. Granting Anakin the rank of Master wouldn't have stopped him from betraying the Jedi. He did so because Palpatine had what he wanted. The means to cheat death so that he could save Padme. That's why Anakin turned. It had nothing to do with being denied the rank of Master. It had to do with what Palpatine could give him versus what the Jedi could not.
     
  24. darth_frared

    darth_frared Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 24, 2005
    they could have.

    they refuse palps' next suggestion: anakin isn't the one to face grievous. that's proof enough.
     
  25. -maynard-

    -maynard- Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 1, 2005
    if they had not done so, it would have shaken anakins trust even more.

    anakin would go back and complain to palpatine and anakins fall may have been even faster. also, anakin might not have even bothered telling mace. the whole course of the movie would have changed.

    anakin, no longer seeing a future with the jedi could join sidious as his last option

    lucas never mentions betrayal (i.e. killing mace) as a necessary condition to turn evil
     
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