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Would the Jedi Order had survived if the Jedi Counsil were at the temple during the raid?

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by FallenKnight88, Nov 3, 2005.

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  1. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jun 28, 2001
    Between the whole battalion that was sent and Darth Vader, it wouldn't have mattered. The whole point was to catch them all offguard and off balance. It would stlil be a slaughter. Yoda only sensed the attack on him because he was in tune with the Living Force at that moment, due to the death of Ki-Adi and the others.
  2. brook_33

    brook_33 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Dec 30, 2003
    well, i don't think more masters would have helped. i mean, agen kolar probably would have just stood there looking away from the clones, and saesee would have been waiting for him to do something.
  3. lordmorpheus

    lordmorpheus Jedi Padawan star 4

    Dec 16, 2004
    DS, are you serious? with all of the clones virtually walkin thru the front door, that is a bottle neck if i ever saw one. nevertheless, i dont believe that 12 individuals would have made that much difference, but consider what those 12 represent and what pedigree they have, and what their valuable leadership would have meant. the clones, while having watched jedi on a daily basis in battle, still had no concept of the force, and with the jedi within the temple, anakin took out the best of them. you believe that he'd have been able to take out perhaps, koon, ti and adi-mundi in the same manner? possible, but not probable. then again, hell, palps took out three of them with mace windu present so its' hard to tell.
  4. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jun 28, 2001
    Take a look at the staircase. That's a lot of Clonetroopers with Vader. At least a batallion. I don't know how many are in such a group. I'd say at least 500 went with Vader.
  5. DUGGY

    DUGGY Jedi Youngling star 4

    Apr 23, 2005
    so we are saying the Jedi could do what? regain control?. or make a greater last stand?. cause i think more experienced Jedi at the Temple may have done better, but they could not keep it going till they won back the Republic. No way in a million years.
  6. Sweet_James_Jones

    Sweet_James_Jones Jedi Youngling

    Mar 27, 2005
    I made a thread on this with another user name around the time the movie came up. The conclusion we came to was that the temple would have still fallen but Yoda would have made sure the Younglings made it out alive. Mace would have at least held on to the temple long enough to where they could have made a tactical retreat into the Coruscant underground or off planet.

    GrUnT_HUNTER Jedi Youngling star 1

    May 5, 2004
    Sidious killed 3 Jedi Masters in less than 6 seconds. If Sidious was there with Anakin and the Clones they might be able to push them back. Keep in mind that Mace, Kit, Seaseae, and the other master would be dead, so that already hurts morale, but the Jedi could still hold them and escape after they killed the first wave, considering that Palpatine escapes (which he would) and maybe Anakin, they would be able to make it out alive and rebuild the Order in secrecy.
  8. Inno-Vader

    Inno-Vader Jedi Youngling star 1

    Nov 9, 2004
    There would be no rebuilding in secrecy if the Jedi were known to have escaped. As enemies of the republic they would have been hunted down and destroyed. A Jedi can hold his or her own but against the might of the Empire there would be no escape. Not unless the Jedi were presumed dead.

    No matter how the Jedi Temple was configured it would be impossible for the Jedi to escape an attack led by Vader. If laser fire didn't kill them, the sword would. If a pocket of resistance became too troublesome then down would come the turbolaser bombardment.

    Remember, this isn't like the Hoth battle. There was no warning; no time for plotting escape vectors into hyperspace. Just a few moments of chaos and suddenly ... silence.

    Blitzkrieg baby.

  9. ticopuma

    ticopuma Jedi Knight star 5

    Aug 2, 2005
    I think that if the whole council including Aayla and Luminara, etc. were all there the order would have survived. It would have been crippled but alive
  10. Hyperion51

    Hyperion51 Jedi Master star 3

    Jun 11, 2005
    Had at least one of Mace's posse, lets say Kit, survived to the point where Anakin walked in, its possible that combined with the presence of the additional Master being alive and not dead, and Anakin's plea to Mace, Mace may not have overreacted.

    IMO, part of the reason that Mace did decide to go and kill Palpatine off at the end may have been at least partially enfluenced by watching 3 of his friends and comrades in arms being cut down like they where nothing. If one survives, Mace may not be as mad, and the other Master may be able to help convince Mace not to kill Palpatine, but to continue trying to arrest him.

    Even if Mace still tried to kill Palpatine and Anakin survived, if one of the other Masters where still there after Mace was killed, what would he do, and what would Anakin do?
  11. voodoopuuduu

    voodoopuuduu Classic Trilogy Trivia Host star 5 VIP - Game Host

    Mar 22, 2004
    I made a thread on this with another user name around the time the movie came up. The conclusion we came to was that the temple would have still fallen but Yoda would have made sure the Younglings made it out alive. Mace would have at least held on to the temple long enough to where they could have made a tactical retreat into the Coruscant underground or off planet

    Yes, I agree. With more experienced Jedi around, they would have made a much more successful escape. They would have known to fight and run away, to fight another day. But Mace made yet another mistake, probably against Jedi rules, and left the temple basically unguarded.
  12. El-Elyon

    El-Elyon Jedi Master star 2

    Feb 27, 2002
    they're jedi, J-E-D-I. if a legion of the emporers troops can be defeated by a rag-tag of rebels and ewoks then i think if the jedi were more prepared they could more than overpower a legion of clones.
    Jedi v Sith? i think 2 sith v the jedi in FAIR circumstances the sith would be more than overpowered.
  13. PalpatineJones13

    PalpatineJones13 Jedi Youngling

    Nov 4, 2005
    No. It is like an earlier poster alluded to that if the whole empire is coming after you then you really have no chance. And there must have been a limitless supply of stormtroopers since the Empire kept the galaxy in check by show of force. More and more stormtroopers would overwhelm the Jedi Masters and after awhile the Jedi temple would be similar to what happened to the Alamo. Not to mention an air strike could take out the temple. Sure, Jedi are powerful but we are not talking about one on one type battles here but a whole battalion(s) of soldiers coming after you. Unless the force users name is Exar Kun than the temple is going to eventually fall.
  14. Chancellor_Ewok

    Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost star 7

    Nov 8, 2004
    I don't think so. I think the Temple would have been over run eventually. Remember the clones were hand picked for this assignment and they were lead by Anakin, who we know is an excellent swordsman.However, I do think that the defence of the Temple would have lasted alot longer and probably been better organized, had some of the Order's senior Masters been present. Also, if you read the Databank entry on the 501st, it says that several Jedi proved to be exceptionally difficult to kill, so I'd say that the Jedi in the Temple gave as good as they got.
  15. Darth Mischievous

    Darth Mischievous Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Oct 12, 1999
    I wished they would have shown more of Anakin killing the Jedi.

    It's what we were waiting decades to see, but we only got 2 seconds of it.

    DARTHLINK Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Feb 24, 2005
    I usually think that the reason Lucas did that, was because we would then feel the true horror of it all when Obi-Wan and Yoda comes and finds all their Jedi comrades...dead. All we got was Anakin marching towards the temple and a quick scene of the Jedi fighting clones.

    I think Lucas calculating move here was the shock factor. If we look at the scene where Obi-Wana and Yoda sees the dead younglings and we saw 10-20 minutes of Anakin slaughtering the Jedi, we would still be shocked, but not as nearly shocked as we were with what we have in the film.

    The scenes that shows the Jedi dying in the hands of their clone troops, Anakin marching on the temple, the clones betraying and firing at Obi-Wan, they really tug at your heartstrings to see all your favorite Jedi die.
  17. Obi_Frans

    Obi_Frans Jedi Padawan star 4

    Jul 31, 2003
    Didn't we all see the Order 66 scenes?

    Jedi, even Masters, aren't invincible. Shoot them from every angle and they'll fall. Send enough Troops to shoot them from every angle and they'll fall. Send Darth Vader along with these troops that'll shoot them from every angle and they'll fall.

    - O_F
  18. loebs

    loebs Jedi Youngling star 1

    Jul 4, 2005
    all i can picture is this becoming like the scene in the Two Towers where they are hiding and finally open the doors of helms deep - jedi council in this case and fight anyway except in this case yoda comes out on the 5th morning with a petallion of wookies to help hahaha
  19. dragonsith13

    dragonsith13 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Apr 3, 2005
    Probably there combined strength may have been too much for Sidious and Vader to handle although I am sure that Vader took out dozens of Jedi Knights in the temple along with a master or two along with all the padawans and bear clan members. An assmbly of 12 or so of the highest masters would be tough.

    Sidious' genious was, divide and conquer... The Jedi were effectively neutralized by spreading them so thin.
  20. Ruthio

    Ruthio Jedi Youngling star 2

    May 24, 2005
    im sure it would of made a huge difference ....for one thing Anakin would of died. But, im sure the jedi would eventually have to retreat and go into hideing. Either way the "Empire" would win, atleast until Luke skywalker kicks their ass 20 years later.
  21. sith_rising

    sith_rising Jedi Master star 4

    Jan 7, 2004
    The Temple raid wouldn't have happened if the entire Council had been in session. They would have had to level the place with artillery, or they'd never flush them out. Besides, Palpatine would never have tried it with the entire Council present. He only did it because he had Anakin, Mace and his posse were dead, Obi, Ki, Yoda, and Plo were off-world, and they were all seperated and surrounded by Clones.
  22. FallenKnight88

    FallenKnight88 Jedi Youngling star 3

    May 26, 2005
    So that kinda goes back to what I was saying...if Palpatine didn't want to raid the temple w/ the master Jedi's present does that suggest that had they been there the Jedi would've had a fighting chance?
  23. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jun 28, 2001
    One Jedi is worth one hundred soldiers/warriors. But only a few Jedi Knights and Masters were in the Temple. And they were overwhelmed. Jedi are good, but against sheer numbers that outweigh their own, even they are no match. That's how come 200 Jedi get taken down to a dozen in a circle, not counting the eu characters.

    The Jedi were also taken by surprise.
  24. heels1785

    heels1785 JCC/PT/New Films Manager star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Dec 10, 2003

    Yoda could have owned Vader in under a few seconds, and I think Kenobi and the rest could have handled the clones by themselves, even if Mace and the crew were already dead.
  25. Mandalore_X

    Mandalore_X Jedi Youngling star 3

    Apr 22, 2005
    Wasn't Cin Drallig a master.There were masters at the temple .Like the gate gaurdian.
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