Would the PT have been better without Natalie?

Make no mistake about it. She did show her talent in AOTC. She is very good during her confession of love to Anakin. However, I was surprised that her performance didn't come off nearly as strong in other scenes.

 

Ahhhh... to be called condesending is the greatest joy of the Internet.

However, I would like to have someone point to a single thread where I was condesending.

Sarcastic yes. Abrasive maybe. Pompous... sure. Self-righteous... everyone has those moments. But condesending? I'm much too direct to be condesending.

In any case, I will trust in my judgement of Portman's acting ability over that of people who seem to get a thrill out of bashing it.

RB

 

Good luck.

 

Natalie Portman is a good actress, in fact everyone in a lead role in AOTC are great actros/actresses. The problem is Lucas doesn't know how to write speech or motivate actors, and as good as all the actors are in AOTC you can't polish a turd.

Everyone knows (or should do) that Lucas' idea of motivation is to say "again, but better/faster". And if I may quote Harrison Ford: "You can type this **** George, but you can't say it".

If a scene looks bad its up to the director to get a better performance form his actors. As good as Ewan Mcgregor is in AOTC, he's nowhere near as convincing as he is is Trainspotting. Good actors need good directors, and some better editing wouldn't have gone amiss in AOTC, some of the scene changes and cut-to's were appaling.

I think Natalie is an easy target for many who ant to believe that Lucas still has talent. We're all SW fans and we want to believe in him but we shouldn't make someone else a scapegoat for the failings of the main man.

 

"You can type this **** George, but you can't say it".

IF you would be better informed (which you are obviously not) Ford has already said he was wrong...

 

And the bashers of the actors still ignore (amazingly enough this is like having the cheat sheet to the test and demanding the answers are wrong) the fact that Lucas WANTS those lines delivered "straight."

It has been talked about by those who have acted in Star Wars movies and Lucas has given interviews in the past stating that he wants some of the dialogue (or characters) to resound "theatrically" in some scenes.

Ewan McGregor mentioned this recently in an interview where he said he was glad he was allowed to drop that style in this movie. It makes good actors sound "stiff." I have never heard a good enough explanation of why Lucas wants this but some have suggested it has something to do with a Star Wars galaxy "accent" or style of speaking (similar to Dune).

I won't pretend to understand why Lucas wants this but it does explain why his non Star Wars movies do not suffer from this "stiff" delivery style.

Logic should lead one to the conclusion that it is Star Wars (or Lucas if you wish) that makes very good actors sometimes sound as if they are reading their lines for the first time off a card.

This is not a product of bad directing.. but specific directing. This is what he wants and whether you like it or not that is what the actors give.

RB

 

In my opinion - yes, the PT would have been better without Portman. She has made me dislike Padmé.

 

Logic should lead one to the conclusion that it is Star Wars (or Lucas if you wish) that makes very good actors sometimes sound as if they are reading their lines for the first time off a card.

This is not a product of bad directing.. but specific directing.

Hmmm...This doesn't make the SW galaxy appealing. I wouldn't want to live in a galaxy where people talk like as they're reading their lines for the first time off a card. Maybe you meant to say that these characters lived in a time of the SW galaxy when speech was more formal.

But even so, I kinda agree with the criticisms against Natalie Portman's portrayal of Padme Amidala.

I loved AOTC like mad. I've already watched it 8 times in the theatre. But I must say that Natalie Portman's portrayal is not one of the things I love about the movie.

(I prefer using the word "portrayal" to "performance". The former makes it sound as if her deliberate acting choices did not sit well with me. The latter makes it sound like a personal attack on her acting ability.)

Carrie Fisher's portrayal of Princess Leia was more animated and lively.

 

Oh well... you have your opinion and I have mine. And they do not agree.

RB

 

No, you're wrong. She was good in AOTC. You are confusing dry with compassionate and boring with not-crazy-like-Leia. Which is sad, that just b/c Padme isn't a clone of Leia and over-the-top that people don't like the character as much. In reality, Padme is a much more complex and interesting character compared to the Leia of ANH and ESB, its not until ROTJ, in which Leia starts to get criticism from "fans", where she shows her true character. In short, Star Wars fans don't know crap about good characterization, acting or directing. Which is why all the Monday morning QBs of the SW Universe are here at the JC forum talking about making movies.

 

Let's think about the character Padme, shall we? She is an ex-queen, and that job included keeping all her emotions strictly in check, to appear outwardly calm for the benefit of her people. As a senator, she's trying to break free of that restriction, and she's met a young fellow who actually seems interested in her as a person, and not for her assets. All of this is very new for Padme.

IMO, Natalie did an excellent job in portraying this toward the audience, certainly much better than anything I could ever do, and I think she is definetly the right person for the job.


*SB*

 

I personally think youre nuts Joe. But you are welcomed to your opinion, as horrid as it might be, it is still your opinion.

I enjoy Natalies movies.

The Professional was awesome, an 11 year old hitman or hitgirl, that was cool.

Where the Heart Is, another good one. Her acting wasnt dry in this, she portrayed her character well. Remember she played a naive, southern girl who had everybody she thought loved her, leave her. Who could forget her giving birth scene, or when someone kidnapped her infant daughter. Good acting.

Who do you prefer? Alicia Silverstone? Liv Tyler? Britney Spears? Sarah Michelle Gellar? Please Natalie has more acting ability in her little toe than they have put together.

 

"In short, Star Wars fans don't know crap about good characterization, acting or directing. Which is why all the Monday morning QBs of the SW Universe are here at the JC forum talking about making movies."

Hmmm...and I thought that these boards were a place to freely express your thoughts and opinions on the movie...curious.

We're just having a discussion people...calm down.

 

I have to say, though I love the movie and I was largely able to ignore the bad acting, Natalie does not act her part well.

 

The Flying Dutchman: '"You can type this **** George, but you can't say it".

IF you would be better informed (which you are obviously not) Ford has already said he was wrong...'

Ford may have backedtracked but I'd be pretty certain its the most incisive comment he's ever made.

 

With regard to:

"You can type this **** George, but you can't say it"

Harrison Ford DID say it, and even recounted it word for word in the latest Biography of George Lucas on A&E.

Unfortunately, some people have taken this to mean that George Lucas is a bad dialogue writer. He's not. What they fail to understand is that the Star Wars films use dialogue that is highly stylized and unique. Harrison Ford obviously understood and appreciated this. He knew what kind of film they were making. He commenting on the type of dialogue, not viciously attacking George. He was teasing his friend the director, people. It has been taken out of context and turned into something it's not.

Star Wars dialogue is an odd mix of 30's Sci-Fi movies, high melodrama and a dash of new age spiritualism. It's not David Mamet, it's not Shakespeare and it's not (thank God) Tarantino-speak.

And let's not forget that it's been this way, and worked this way since 1977.

Oh, and with regard to the topic . .

If you were able to watch AOTC without developing a gigantic school-boy crush on Natalie Portman, you're a stronger man than I (don't tell my wife). Personally, I thought she was wonderful.

-Otis

 

Nunquam, for the record, I was just mentioning how there seem the be alot of great Aussie actors these days, and I went off topic, I wasn't trying the say that Naomi Watts should play Amidala.
In fact, my string posts were very off topic.

Back to topic, I refer to "blindly devoted" fans whenever someone takes our criticism of Portman's wooden performance and then makes it seem like we want somebody stark raving mad as Amidala, and I don't know where they're getting that from.
It just seems as though they are evading the fact that maybe it's possible that someone could've given a much more satisfying and more emotionally realistic performance than Portman, nothing over the top.

You made mention of all the subtleties like quivering, the look in her eyes, etc. that you thought made a good performance.

In the beginning of the arena scene she was quite emotional, that was fine.
There were other moments in the film where she was fine.

Her wide eyed reaction to Anakin's confession was great, but she didn't really speak there, she was just reacting and Lucas got the shot.

Yes, there were little parts here and there where she was ok, but overall I thought her performance lacked and I never thought I was watching a real character.

Those little subtle quirks that you mention just weren't used enough in some scenes that ended up very flat.

 

I think Natalie is very good in the PT. She has played her part quite well and she is giving it her best.

 

I thought Natalie did a good job. I don't like bashers... Honestly... I have to disagree with them... Natalie did a good job. I give her credit for it-same goes with Hayden and Ewan. Who really cares about acting?? I mean... when i watch OT, I don't look for good/bad acting... im watching a story... thats all... I don't care what others say... I'll love natalie's acting everytime I watch Star wars.

 

I can't believe this. You guys have know respect for Natalie at all. I bet you haven't even seen any of her movies except for TPM and ATOC. You can't judge an actress based on two films. A lot of ppl did like Natalie in ATOC, and this bashing is just being unfair. I contend that any other actress would no have done a better job as Padme, becuase Lucas directing does make a large part of it.

But hey, I guess now you wont see any of Natalie's movies anymore, even if the critics say she's fablous.

And BTW, critics loved her performance in Anywhere but Here, in fact she was even nominated for a Golden Globe for it.

And let me tell you something, I post over at the Base37 natalie portman discussion forum and I know more about Natalie than any of you geeks ever will know. You don't know crap about Natalie.

 

Wizard8 - "I refer to "blindly devoted" fans whenever someone takes our criticism of Portman's wooden performance..."

I think we have one of those above.

 

Natalie is important to PT. She is now even signed for the ROTJ DVD. Why is it that whenever anyone makes a mistake, the wirkd must be critical of them. Portman is a fabulous actress. I agree some scenes could be improved, but the scene isn't the fault of Portman. I am an aspiring director, and see the great ability that she has. Bashers need to stop, and focus their energies on something productive.

 

Problem is is that most of us complaining about Natalie's performance aren't bashers, we're SW fans that are discussing one of the aspects of the film that we didn't like.

It's the gushers who can't take any of our criticism and can't face the fact that maybe the movie has flaws that prevent it from being as good a SW film as it should've or could've been in the eyes of many.

 

It's not Natalie's ability we're questioning. Well, not for most of us anyways. I think the real issue is her attitude towards these movies in general. She accepted the role of Amidala for 3 Star Wars films, even though she was not familiar with Star Wars prior to that (and I suspect to this day she still hasn't watched the OT), or prepared for the amount of work required to film the movies, and even not prepared for the kind of fan ogling that she receives now. I really hope I'm wrong, but my impression of Natalie from various interviews paints a picture of a woman who, however talented she may be, does not want to be in these films. She just seems indifferent to the whole thing, whereas her co-stars look like they're having a blast.

 

"It's not Natalie's ability we're questioning. Well, not for most of us anyways."

It seems alot of people on these boards are questioning her ability.

She may be suitable for other films, but I feel she was miscast as Amidala.

One thing that definately comes across is that she doesn't seem to be a very dedicated actress, while other people study intensely into their role, it seems she just sort of takes it and hopes it doesn't interfere with her school work or social life.
I don't know if she's really wanting to further her acting career and ability, rather just take jobs that come to her.

There are other actress that are in the prequels that are trained and dedicated actresses that get bit parts, while I think Portman wouldv'e been more suited as a handmaiden or something.

I think a better director would've had a better idea of who he should have casted in the bigger roles, you don't see too many movies where the actors in the bit rolls seem far superiour to someone in the main cast.