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Would the PT have been better without Natalie?

Discussion in 'Archive: Attack of the Clones' started by Darth_Joe, May 27, 2002.

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  1. Bresson

    Bresson Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 16, 2002
    Natalie Portman was great in THE PROFESSIONAL, BEAUTIFUL GIRLS, HEAT, EVERYONE SAYS I LOVE YOU, and ANYWHERE BUT HERE. She's also done terrific stage work. She's NOT A BAD ACTRESS. Being the youngest person in the cast, she's clearly having the most problem adjusting to the blue screens and the cliched dialogue that Lucas gives her. It's the director's job when he sees something that's making the actor look bad, say a bad line reading, moving too fast to their mark, just anything untruthful. He's clearly not doing this with his actors. I personally think he doesn't really care what the acting's like, which doesn't bode well for Ep 3. Ewan McGregor was known to have gotten a little testy this time with Lucas's non direction. And it's not a secret that Natalie can't wait for the trilogy to be over (her curt comment on Letterman all but proves it: "One more and my STAR WARS years are over.") Even still, Natalie comes off with small, magical moments. Even the scene where she declares her love, she gets past that awful "I've been dying a little bit every day since you've come back into my life" (that's even hard to type) and just has magic coming out of her eyes and when she whispers "I truly, deeply love you." I can't think of another actress of her generation that has that kind of on screen charisma. Who? An airhead like Kirsten Dunst? Tara Reid? Please...After STAR WARS, after her college years, Natalie will stun all of you with her performances.

    WIZARD 8: Natalie doesn't care about acting and has done no preparation? How ignorant of a statement is that? You're talking about someone who's worked on stage in ANNE FRANK and THE SEAGULL, not exactly easy works. What research would you have her do for STAR WARS? Learn to fly a space ship? She wasn't even born when ANH or EMPIRE came out and said back in 1999 that she saw the original trilogy on tape after she was cast. Most actors develop whole personal back stories to get into their characters, but since Lucas supplies all this, I can't imagine what else she could have done. But you're such a noted acting expert, you tell me. Please. Tell me.

     
  2. Now_Serving_No1138

    Now_Serving_No1138 Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    May 28, 2002
    This is nuts.

    Portman is a great actress. In fact all of the principals in AOTC are very talented people. Star Wars movies just aren't movies that give the acting talent a lot of freedom. And Lucas' dialogue is so clunky (although adequately functional) that it's a challenge for even the most experienced actress or actor to keep it animated.



     
  3. wizard8

    wizard8 Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 19, 2001
    For the record, I don't hate Portman in the role, there are many that hate everything she did in the film, I'm not one of those people.
    I just thought she was more miss than hit.
    Overall, I'm indifferent towards her performance, leaning towards the negative.
    My problem with her performance is that it wasn't good enough to be believable, and took away from the believability of the film for me.
    I wasn't convinced.

    "What research would you have her do for STAR WARS? Learn to fly a space ship?"


    No, I would have her think about the emotional concequences of watching her padawan protector go through inner turmoil at the thought of something happening to his mother.
    Then he brings back his dead mother and buries her.
    In all of these scenes Portman is standing around totally wooden, like she doesn't know what to do. She has absolutely NO reaction. No reaction of worry for her bodyguard whom she's also AT THE VERY LEAST friends with, no look of shock, dread, in the slightest sense.

    And please, don't comeback with, "oh, so you think she should be flailing her arms and screaming and crying." I'm getting really sick of that.

    She's leaving her handmaiden whom (assuming) she's very close to, and her handmaiden is crying and worried, but Portman again has no reaction, she just acts like she's going to the corner store or something. She doesn't sound reassuring or anything, she just spits out her lines like, "ok I'm going, see ya."

    There are VERY FEW moments where she shows any emotion or any life in her character at all.


    "Being the youngest person in the cast, she's clearly having the most problem adjusting to the blue screens ..."

    Well, the fireplace, meadow scene, room on Coruscant, overlooking the lake on Naboo, don't really have any bluescreen elements that she had to react to.
    She didn't have to interact with too many CG characters at all.
    However, Hayden was real, she didn't react to him very well.
    She really didn't interact with the other actors terribly well.
    We've already went over this, and already concluded that the blue screen argument doesn't apply to her that much.

    "And it's not a secret that Natalie can't wait for the trilogy to be over (her curt comment on Letterman all but proves it: "One more and my STAR WARS years are over.")"

    EXACTLY, she doesn't like it, therefore maybe she was miscast. Maybe there was someone that was willing to bring more to the role, someone that was willing to look a little deeper into the character and bring more life to it.

    Hayden is very into his part, and you can tell, even if he doesn't succeed all the time, at least he's attempting to make it work.

    I'm sure there are other young actresses out there that would have loved to play the part of Amidala, someone that would have brought more conviction to the role, there has to be a female out there that knows how to have as much fun with a Star Wars role as the boys like Ewan do.

    God knows Carrie Fischer did.

    If you don't want to be there, then don't take the part, let someone else do it.
     
  4. Rikalonius

    Rikalonius Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 26, 2001
    Better Direction,

    i've said it a thousand times. GL is a great visionary, but he should turn over the day to day acting to someone who is better at it. GL suffers badly from this idea that if he just micromanages everything it will all turn out ok. I have learned as an amateur writer and animator, that sometimes other see things I didn't notice. If I was GL I would just dismiss them and do it my way. That is the problem.

    Fischer used to hate Lucas, she admitted as much in SW insider. Portman is a very good actress and she is a great choice as Leia's mother, in my opinion. But I think under better direction, it would come out more.

    Maybe GL needs to do a little less blue screening. He relies to much on FX to save the day. Just a thought.

    Although I think the guy who played Green Goblin's son in Spiderman would have made a better Anikin. Forgive me that i have forgotten his character.
     
  5. RamRed

    RamRed Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 16, 2002
    Actually, I thought Natalie is great as Padme Amidala - despite the clunky dialogue. In fact, her performance seemed to be a vast improvement over what she did in TPM.


    Yes, we all know about the clunky dialogue in the SW movies. Christ, it's practically part of the SW lore. Complaining about it is simply redundant. Oddly enough, I can't find such dialogue in other Lucas films - even in the ones he had directed [well, maybe HOWARD THE DUCK, but I barely remember that one]. I'm beginning to suspect that he deliberately includes such dialogue in his movies.
     
  6. Pooja

    Pooja Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    May 25, 2002
    *looks at topic*

    No.
     
  7. Yodave27

    Yodave27 Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 2, 2001
    In all of these scenes Portman is standing around totally wooden, like she doesn't know what to do.

    That's what she was trying to do. In the movie, Anakin slowly breaks down the emotional wall that Padme has put up.

    I also thought that the scenes on Tatooine were great. As far as Natalie's acting in these scenes it was great. She doesn't know what to say, how to consol him, so she just hugs him.

    That's not to say all of her scenes were great, they weren't. But overall she convinced me that she was Padme.
     
  8. ChewWokka

    ChewWokka Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Dec 4, 2001
    What is exactly is "clunky dialogue"? Or is this just yet another phrase people use to degrade Star Wars without knowing what it means?
     
  9. Bresson

    Bresson Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 16, 2002
    WIZARD 8: You're confusing preparation with motivation. Preparation is what an actor does to "prepare" for a role, in terms of the external life of a character, the life that happens offscreen that affects what happens onscreen. Details like "What does the character like for breakfast?" or something like that. It's the concept of creating a whole person, if you buy into Method Acting. Motivation--which is what you're referring to when you say she has "no reaction"--is a function of what the direction the filmmaker wants to take a scene into. Clearly, these actors are not making a move without Lucas' stamp of approval; and if they did, he'll just digitally alter it anyway. Natalie might be standing there wooden, but if that's not what Lucas is telling her to do, then he should be correcting it. It's the job of the director--some say the most important one, beyond effects, camera angles, etc.--to stand outside and tell an actor when something's right or wrong and how to best correct it. The actors are the most direct link to an audience's emotions, not effects, sounds, camera angles, or costumes.

    Having worked on tons of productions and now a start up filmmaker myself, I know for a fact that every cast and crew member takes their cue from the director. Their emotional investment in any project is a reflection of what the director shoots back at them. It's easy to say, "Well, I don't want to hear about millionaires griping about being ignored." That's b.s. Nobody's saying Natalie isn't professional. But when I was making a short movie a couple of years back, I was determined to establish an openness with the actors, a willingness to let them experiment. In the end, I would be editing the movie anyway and if I didn't like something, it was adios. But letting them experiment gave them more confidence and more trust. This resulted in better performances. It's a method Scorsese uses. Kubrick directs actor's much like Lucas and, in the end, both had cold, wooden performances.

    Clearly, Lucas's actors don't trust him. This is really disappointing from the man who did GRAFFITI. Even Sam Jackson would say that Lucas's direction really came down to "Don't give into the Dark Side." What? In his latter years, particularly with the new trilogy, Lucas has shown no respect for his actors and their craft. Don't try dumping that on Natalie's shoulders. She's doing fine with what she's given (You try saying, "You're a Jedi and I'm a Senator" or "I've been dying a little bit each day since you came back into my life"). If Lucas does more than three or four takes of any scene with an actor, I'll be stunned. Whenever he has a human in front of the camera, you can just see him running and gunning. Faster is his motto. Let's get this thing out of production. With that kind of attitude, pervasive now over two movies, so don't expect any different in Ep 3, what's an actor to do?

    And as for Natalie wanting out of the movies. It was never implied she didn't want to do them in the first place. The rumour is that she's disappointed in Lucas's lack of direction when it comes to the characters and actors and how frustrating it is that he shows no signs of changing. Maybe CLONES's sluggish box office will correct that for Ep 3 but don't hold out any (new) hope. I'm ecstatic that she's signed on to do COLD MOUNTAIN. At least Anthony Minghella realizes that the fundamental link to an audience is through the actors, something Lucas has clearly forgotten or ignored.
     
  10. Ociredor

    Ociredor Jedi Youngling star 1

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    May 9, 2002
    I apologize if I offended anyone with my earlier post. I don't want ppl to think I don't respect others opinions, because I really do. I guess I need to calm down when dicussing these issues. My opinion on Nat's performance still stands, but I really should hav tried to express it in a less offensive way.
     
  11. Razorback

    Razorback Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 2, 2001
    I think the PT could have done without some of its "fans". ;)

    RB
     
  12. Jedi_Xen

    Jedi_Xen Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Sep 26, 2001
    I think this should be "I dont like the character of Amidala." Rather than Natalies ability to act is horrible.


    She played the roll of a dry girl, who simply didnt want to fall in love, with Anakin anyway. As been said she built up this emotional wall.

    I think more people would have liked her if she were all flirty, or kissing on two men, one of being her brother. I dont know, the problem it seems is more with the character than Natalies acting.

    I personally liked her character, especially since I had to get over a wall a girl built to get to her. :D I can relate to Anakin in someways.
     
  13. opiewan

    opiewan Jedi Youngling star 1

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    May 7, 2002
    As a Star Wars fan my entire life...Born in 77...I wouldn't want anyone other then Natalie for the role of Padme....She is exactly what I imagined when I was a kid and watched Leia tell Luke that her mother was kind, very beautiful, but sad. She is exactly what I wanted her to be.

    Natalie is one of the best things about the PT....I admit the PT has some problems here and there...but Natalie isn't one of them.
     
  14. JAMMINITUP

    JAMMINITUP Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Mar 4, 2002
    I think it the "flatness" in Natalie's acting was intentional - UP UNTIL the "truly deeply" line...
    Right after this confession before the Geonosis execution scene, every one of her lines were full of emotion, life, character and a sense of humour, eg. "No, I call this aggressive negotiations!" and "No, no weve got to get to that hanger...HURRY!!"

    See what I mean? It was the "truly deeply" scene where Padme threw off the "Queen/Senator" persona and lost her inhibitions for the first time in her life.
     
  15. Devlo_Masan

    Devlo_Masan Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    May 20, 2002
    After seeing Natalie as Padmé for two movies, I can't picture anyone BUT her in the role. So I'll say no.
     
  16. Bresson

    Bresson Jedi Youngling star 3

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    May 16, 2002
    The person I could've done without is Sam Jackson. Sorry. I know he's the Man and all, and it's fun to hear him say "This Party's Over", but what else has he done so far to justify so much screen time, not to mention speculation? He really seems to be the guy assigned to talk to Yoda half the time. I can't prove it, but I sincerely believe this entire role was created by Lucas because of Jackson's aggressive lobbying to be in the movie. Which is a sad statement on priorities.
     
  17. Ezekial

    Ezekial Jedi Master star 3

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    May 24, 2002
    hmm, yea I've been wondering that too. is natalie portman's performance in AOTC just a fluke or is that how her acting is across the board? cuz I really dont see why people are saying shes such a talented actress and crap. her acting hasnt really stood out to me.
     
  18. jgarver359

    jgarver359 Jedi Youngling

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    May 27, 2002
    It is possible that maybe it isn't Natalie's acting, but her ability to act the specific script. I feel improvements can be made, as I believe that we all agree. Wizard8 is correct in many aspects, but I don't think she was miscast, but rather unprepared for this massive role. Portman suits the role, but does she suit the mass public attention? That is the question in my mind.
     
  19. opiewan

    opiewan Jedi Youngling star 1

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    May 7, 2002
    I agree that most people do not understand what romance is in the classic sense of the word.....I thought Natalie was perfect...If there is a problem with the romance it's not Natalie
     
  20. Rupert_Pupkin

    Rupert_Pupkin Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Mar 10, 2002
    We all know Lucas isn't an actor's director, but Hayden and Ewan did wonderful jobs with their roles. What the heck happened with Natalie? Two lackluster performances in TPM and AOTC. She just seems like shes bored out of her mind. She has no emotion in her voice and acting style.
     
  21. Ender_needs_Bean

    Ender_needs_Bean Jedi Youngling star 2

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    May 19, 2002
    This thread has gone on long enough without somebody at least mentioning who else, besides Portman, was considered for the part of Padme Amidala. I don't have that info, but I think one of you must... Who else was being considered for the part?
     
  22. XtheLurker

    XtheLurker Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    May 30, 2002
    I have been a long-time fan of Natalie Portman, and I have to say, I was very disappointed by her acting in AOTC. She showed almost no signs of talent. This is clearly having a nasty impact on her once seemingly invulnerable reputation as a talented actress. I find that unfortunate, and disappointing.

    Darth_Joe is very, very wrong when he states that Natalie is not a very good actress, but I'll admit that if I was to judge her talent based solely on the films he mentions - Where The Heart Is and AOTC - I might have reached the same conclusion. For those who believe she really isn't that good, I urge you to keep an open mind and take a look at her best roles, notably Leon, Beautiful Girls, and Anywhere But Here (where she received her Golden Globe nomination), before making your final judgment on her talents.

    As it stands, however, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that other actresses would necessarily have done a better job than Natalie did in this film. The very qualities lacking in her performance - namely, emotional range, intensity, and personality, not to mention creating a convincing character - are qualities she has repeatedly shown herself perfectly able to handle in past roles. Therefore, it is clear that she did poorly in this role not because she was incapable of doing well, but because, for some reason - and I'm still not sure what that reason is - she purposefully chose to withhold her undeniable talents in this film. I am not making excuses for her. I think her performance was a failure. But those who generalize this failure to her entire career are making a huge mistake.

    Some might argue, "Well, other people in the cast did a good job despite bad dialogue, bluescreens, etc." I do not dispute that. I'm not claiming that Natalie is the most talented performer in the cast - far from it - I'm just saying she is far, far more capable than this performance of hers would seem to indicate.

    Compare it to playing football during a hurricane. If some players manage to do a good job, that is to their credit, but if others stumble, does that mean they're necessarily bad players?

    --X
     
  23. DarthKitten

    DarthKitten Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    May 24, 2002
    Acting is all about LISTENING and REACTING. Also, if the actor doesn't believe in the character, how can they make anyone else believe in it?
    Poor Natalie is having such a rough time with all this fame and money, huh? Isn't life harsh and horrible?
    Hey Nat, come and work at my job for a day or two....
     
  24. Grand Moff Joker

    Grand Moff Joker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 1999
    XtheLurker, I'm surprised that especially as a Natalie fan, you didn't like Where The Heart Is. That is definitely not my kind of movie at all, but I was really captivated by it... due mainly to Natalie's performance.
     
  25. Kouby

    Kouby Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    May 22, 2002
    For sure GL is not the best at directing actors and I think we all agree on that.

    As for Portman...she is a great actress. It doesn't show up in TPM (for sure) neither in AOTC but it definitely does in Leon (The Professional). If some of you out here have not seen this movie (which was her debut movie by the way), go rent it, download it (oooops not that's illegal sorry) buy it, borrow it whatever...Her performance in it is just INCREDIBLE. She totally went into it, she completely outperforms Jean Reno which is not a bad actor himself, and matches perfectly with Gary Oldman...
    That probably has to do with Luc Besson directing his actors a lot better than GL can...

    As for SW...well in TPM she supposed to be a 14 year old queen, elected at the age of 12 (talk about some childhood huh ?). And although she's supposed to be just some kind of emotion-less character, she acts it so basically that it's definitely not good...
    From her first lines we know that she won't be good in that movie.

    She's a lot better in AOTC...yet she doesn't match up to her performance in Leon. As a young actress she obviously needs guidance which she lacked. Take someone with experience in the same movie (Christopher Lee or even Ewan McGregor), you can see the difference...Even if dialogue and direction are bad, which they are in AOTC except for some key moments, they can make their way through the movie.
    Miscast? I think not. I don't see anyone her age better fot that part. Please don't tell me Kirsten Dunst, that's some bad acting in every single movie she's made...

    But let's face it we don't watch SW movies for their acting performance do we??? ;)

     
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