Lit Would Thrawn Approve of the First Order?

I think it's safe to say that Thrawn would've been open to the Contingency at the beginning and supportive of the FO's aims (and might still be depending on how the NuCanon takes shape) in its early years. I'd disagree with Jello and Nick a little bit in their matter-of-fact belief that Thrawn would endorse the FO as we see in The Force Awakens. Thrawn is not one to kill civilians if he doesn't have to--we see that repeatedly in the new novel and we see pieces of that throughout his depiction in Rebels. He's cold, but he's not a bloodthirsty, murdering maniac. Little consolation for Morad Sumar notwithstanding.

That said, I do wholeheartedly agree that Thrawn is fundamentally opposed to democracy and pluralism as he views those as mechanisms of chaos and antithetical to the overall security of his people.

If anything, I'd wager that if Thrawn survives post-Endor in the NuCanon, that he may flirt with the FO in its early years, but seeing the rise of Hux and Snoke would quite possibly return to the Chiss Ascendancy to bolster its defenses and security in a galaxy now dominated by an ineffective New Republic and the insane fascist death cult that is the First Order.

 

I think new canon Thrawn shows a complete lack of care to civilian casualties if it impedes his goals.

Then again, so did Legends Thrawn.

Remember, he committed xenocide.

 

That got retconned into destroying one colony, rather than the homeworld of that species (the Kaleesh):

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Oben

 

I disagree - new canon Thrawn, especially as depicted in the novel, is very concerned with avoiding civilian casualties. Right up to and including the battle of Batonn

Spoiler

(e.g. he could have destroyed the island base but ruled it out from the start as it would get the hostages killed). And he was obviously appalled by the detonation of the explosives resulting in the terrible number of civilian deaths.

That does not mean he won't change into a more ruthless person later on, but at this point in time I don't see that based on his actions.

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I found that a bit of a cop out by Zahn but Thrawn IS his character so if he wants to say Thrawn wouldn't get mad over insulting art or butchering civilians, that's his purview.

Albeit, by that logic Greedo shot first.

 

Thrawn would few the FO as mere posers, undisciplined and unrefined youth, fanatical compnor brown shirts, airheads and ideologues.

He would see them as useful perhaps-a bludgeoning tool to be used against one's enemies or an example of the merits and drawbacks of indoctrination but he wouldn't take them seriously.

Most of the imperial brass would probably have even less positive perceptions of them Heck even Zjinj and the other warlords would probably laugh at the site of their speeches and pathetic attempts at grandstanding.

 

I really liked Poe Damoren 11# where Captain Phasma and Terex have it out via holocom. He considers the First Order a pale shadow of the Empire, poseurs and children at play.

Phasma basically can barely hold her DISGUST at what a bunch of whiny self-entitled corrupt old fools Terex and his ilk represent.

So, no, they would not get along at all with mutual loathing. As far as the First Order is concerned, the Empire was a disgusting oligarchy of racist fools who lined their pockets. As far as the Empire is concerned, the First Order represents wannabes.

 

I largely agree with this, but do believe he would see the reorganization of the remnants of the Empire as an important goal at the beginning. As I stated earlier, I believe Thrawn would eventually depart from the First Order as it matured and its true ugly nature revealed itself. And I very much doubt he'd be fooled by the Hux's and Snoke's of the galaxy. He'd probably also be highly dismissive of Kylo Ren as an emotionally charged sycophant incapable of rational deduction and actions.

But I think he would see the immediate vacuum left in the Empire's absence as the worst possible thing and in need of an immediate remedy--be it from the Ascendancy or the early aspirations of the First Order.

 

Indeed, which is why his end is schadenfreude.







Kylo Ren's response?

 

"So do you!"

Alas, Han Solo didn't steal it for the not-Falcon.

But yes, Terex showed even stormtroopers just did not see the universe the same way FO soldiers do. Power comes with privilege in the Empire as well as an exploitation of perceived weakness in your superiors. Everything we've seen about the FO seems to indicate the leadership is as Spartan and minimalist as a Soviet was expected to be and not Stalin either.

 

We need a book of galactic architecture. I'd love to see some examples of First Order brutalism (and not just of Rimkin).

 

Clearly, you don't really appreciate what they've achieved with their minimalist approach.

 

Weren't The First Order and the Empire of the Hand basically the same kind of organization?

 

They're kind of interesting in how their similarities belie their differences.

The Empire of the Hand is basically a secret society of Imperials moved to hold the line against the Vong (and then did almost NOTHING agianst the Vong--did anyone else notice they weren't even involved in the war?)

The First Order is a secret society of Imperials moved to keep the dream of universal fascism alive.

Albeit, I really would pay money to have the Vong show up as a refugee fleet after the First Order annihilated 90% of their race and reduced them to piracy and genocide of smaller species.

More Toff or Nagai threat than well, Vong.

 

The empire of the hand IIUC was basically Thrawn's Chiss-Imperial fusion state. That sort of existed as a bridge between the traditions of the Chiss and of the Empire.

The FO is basically a parody of the empire-all flashy style, wild speeches, and goose stepping yet none of either the grandeur(seriously all those SSDs are magnificent), overwhelming military power, and awesome juggernaught that the original empire is.

 

And yet at the same time they destroy a historical artifact - Tarkin's personal ship - all because the Vader cosplayer had a tantrum and couldn't handle Terex's Core Worlder banter.

 

Terex disobeyed orders, insulted his superiors, insulted the First Order, engaged in criminal activity, diverted Imperial resources, and tried to start a shooting war with the Resistance/Republic.

Basically, all but daring the First Order to kill him out of some belief they WEREN'T murderous killers like the Empire's soldiers.

Terex is right that Kylo Ren wasn't Vader--he let Terex live far too long.

They'd have been dragging Terex's corpse out of the room before he finished his first insult under Ren's grandfather.

 

I always felt this was mainly due to the NJO authors choosing not to do anything with them. If Zahn had been involved I bet they would have been around somehow (even if it resulted in a dramatic fail).

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I think Terex knew he was on his way out and wanted to relive some glory days of his Imperial past, but still they didn't have to destroy a cultural relic to kill an agent. A simple Force choke would've sufficed. Or can Ren not even do that?[/quote]