CT Would Vader be able to kill Luke?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Dominick1216, Jul 28, 2013.

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  1. Dominick1216 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 23, 2013
    After Vader (Anakin) learned that Luke was his son, do you think, if he was told, to kill his own son, Padme's son? Do you think Vader would hesitate or show no mercy?
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  2. Darth Vader's Chest Plate Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2013
    star 1
    Good question. After 20 years of torment from thinking that he'd killed his wife, this could well be the point of his redempion or full on fall to not only the dark side but a very dark psycological place. I believe that if he'd destroyed Luke the next step would have been to go after Palpatie and remove all traces of him ever being Anakin.
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  3. Darth Eddie Jedi Grand Master

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    May 14, 2013
    star 3
    No, because there was still good in him. His children are inevitably destined to expose that good. Which is kinda the point.
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  4. MOC Yak Face Moderator

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    star 4
    I think he'd struggle to do it when push came to shove.
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  5. Darth_Pevra Force Ghost

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    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    In TESB? Without a doubt. He did risk his sons life in both the Hoth battle and later in the Cloud City duel.

    ROTJ ... no, I don't think so.
  6. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    Sep 2, 2012
    star 5
    In the Hoth battle, maybe- but a case could be made that if he really wanted the Rebel leaders dead- he'd have ordered an orbital strike the moment the shield went down. By going down in person, it seemed clear that he was trying to capture the leadership, rather than kill them.

    And people have already argued that Vader wasn't trying to kill Luke, but to disable and capture him, during the duel.
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  7. Darth_Pevra Force Ghost

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    May 21, 2008
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    But apparently he did want to order an orbital strike before Ozzel screwed everything up. He later didn't do it because there was no sense in it. The rebel transporters were already airborne and his own troops were on the ground.
  8. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Mmm...No he didn't want an orbital strike. The opening crawl describes him as "obsessed with finding young Skywalker"...an orbital strike would leave pieces of Luke to find. He also orders Veers to 'prepare his men' before they even arrive in the system, after the initial report from the probe droid; it's Veers who describes the shield as being strong enough to deflect any bombardment.:

    http://www.starwars-union.de/diefil...th Draft - Shooting Script - Oktober 1978.pdf



    Vader says nothing about an orbital bombardment being his preferred means to deal with the Rebels on Hoth; indeed, given his apparent goal of capturing Luke, obliterating the base is illogical for him to want to do.
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  9. Darth_Pevra Force Ghost

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    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    You are correct. I think I mixed up EU stuff with movie logic because I recall a source claiming he wanted to use the asteroids as disguise and then bomb the **** out of the rebels.

    But still, an AT-AT strike is very dangerous. Luke almost died back then too.
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  10. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

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    Sure, but it's a "maybe he'll die" to a "he will die". Obviously Luke isn't going to just surrender, and of course the Rebel base does need to be destroyed; an orbital bombardment isn't going to accomplish both capturing Luke (if anything, it might get Luke off planet quicker, as he and Rogue Group would have presumably scrambled in their X-Wings if they'd had time.) and destroying the Rebel base. A surface attack was the only even mildly viable option if capturing Luke was to happen.
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  11. Darth_Pevra Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
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    I agree. Vader wouldn't willy-nilly put a lightsaber into Lukes gut. He would only do it if it is really necessary. He said as much in TESB. "He will join us or die." I don't think he lied when he said that.
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  12. Samuel Vimes Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 3
    Two things,
    One, if an orbital strike was never planned, why would Veers even bring it up?
    Two, those walkers didn't fire candy guns, several rebel fighters were shot down as well as ground troops. If Vader wanted Luke alive at all cost, then all his soldiers would have to use stun weapons. They didn't, so Vader was interested in Luke but he still used deadly force against the rebels.

    Lastly, if one wants to bring EU into this, Turbo Lasers have apparently an near infinite variability in fire power. The same gun can fire blast that blow up whole continents down to blasts that barely blow up a bicycle.
    So perhaps a low level orbital bombardment was planned but had to be scrapped because the rebels were alerted to their presence.

    Bye for now.
    Old Stoneface
  13. Rachel_In_Red Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2013
    star 2
    He took several swings in the ESB duel that would have been fatal if Luke had been a little off or slow on his defense.
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  14. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

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    Jun 29, 2000
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    Sorry, I seem to have already had this discussion with @Darth_Pevra. Feel free to read our conclusions :p
  15. Darth_Pevra Force Ghost

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    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    He probably thought that if Luke wasn't capable of defending himself, he also wasn't worthy of surviving.
  16. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    Sep 2, 2012
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    I don't think I've seen any official source stating that- not even the Incredible Cross Sections books (which came up with the notion of single blasts melting hundreds of square km at a time).

    The "weakest" a capital ship turbolaser has been seen, as far as I know, is "obliterate an acre of forest".
  17. Rachel_In_Red Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2013
    star 2
    If he had no fatherly feelings for Luke and his only interest in him was to turn him to the Dark Side, then yes. But if he did, then it's hard to imagine that being the case. There have been a lot of NFL, NBA and MLB players whose sons weren't good enough to rise to the professional ranks and become legends like their fathers, but they didn't kill them for it.

    :)
  18. Darth_Pevra Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    I think he didn't yet have many fatherly feelings and if his son was weak, he wasn't really his son anyways. In their duel Vader was very interested in Lukes prowess, his power as a Jedi. Maybe for more personal reasons than just if he would make a worthy Sith.
    Last edited by Darth_Pevra, Jul 29, 2013
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  19. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

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    Yeah, inclined to agree with Pevra here...Vader's 'fatherly' feelings towards Luke are less "aww family" and more feudal-he wants to set up a Skywalker royal dynasty for all intents and purposes; certainly his offer to Luke in TESB implies that.

    I'd love to speculate on the nature of a Skywalker Empire, but that's for another thread and forum :p
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  20. MOC Yak Face Moderator

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    I have nothing to base this on but my gut feeling, but I felt that by the end of TESB Vader's feelings had begun to transform from feudal to fatherly.
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  21. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

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    Not enough for him to deviate significantly from his course until Luke was literally dying before his eyes.
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  22. Aegon Starcaster Jedi Master

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    Jun 27, 2013
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    As far as the Luke/Vader thing goes, I think Vader knew Luke was powerful from the start. Luke did destroy a Death Star after all, and Vader was there when it happened. Personally, I think Vader and Palpatine were both lying through their teeth to each other during the conversation in TESB. Both of them knew that they would try to get Luke to kill the other one, so there would effectively be no "us" for him to join.

    Bombardment doesn't necessarily imply an orbital strike. They could bombard the shield with a ground assault, such as when the droid army bombarded Gungan shields at the Battle of Naboo. When Veers says "any bombardment" he is implying that there is no way imperial troops can breech the rebel base until the shield generator is brought down.
    Last edited by Aegon Starcaster, Jul 29, 2013
  23. Seagoat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2013
    star 4
    The problem is, due to the original ST being abandoned, the plots of 4 movies had to be squeezed into ROTJ, so we have a sudden shift from borderline evil, easily angered Vader to conflicted, regretful Vader. One can only wonder how his character would have progressed had it turned out as it was intended...

    however I am still glad we have what we do
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  24. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    Duckie, you have the fact that when Luke called out "Father", Vader responded "Son". It was definitely a father-son moment.

    As for the OP....well he could have, he had the chance, but didn't. Palpatine seems just about to order Vader to kill Luke, but Vader jumps in before he can say it. Vader says Luke will join them or die, yet Luke put up nothing but resistance and Vader didn't kill him, he went out of his way to give Luke chance after chance, he disarmed him rather than kill him. Vader could have used Luke's resistance as a reason to simply kill him quick, but didn't. Luke saw it as proof that there was still good in him and I tend to agree.

    I think the situation as is in ESB goes as far as it could go short of Palpatine demanding Luke be killed without exception. If Palpatine gives the order, I think Vader tries to dark side team up with Luke anyway. When Vader inevitably fails, I think he'd let Luke get away to try again another day. In this scenario I think it's less likely he'd actually capture Luke in fear of the Emperor finding out and having Luke killed one way or another.

    So that's a no on would.

    If the question was could Vader kill Luke, then yeah, sure. Though I wouldn't want to be in the same sector as Vader after that, he'd probably go on another destructive warpath, or rather a self-destructive warpath.


    I agree, but I think Vader would lose shamefully.
    Last edited by CT-867-5309, Jul 29, 2013
  25. MOC Yak Face Moderator

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    Yeah, I thought I felt some love there...
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