Would You Save The Life Of A Helpless Tyrant? (General)

When Anakins given the assignment to be Amidala's protector in AotC.

Let's also not forget that it's Mace Windu who sticks up for Anakin when Obi-Wan expresses his doubt over him, of course - Anakin goes out of his way to betray that faith by going to Tatooine and wiping out the Tuskens, but i guess we can blame some other Jedi for that. It's also Yoda who's the only Jedi who doesn't want Anakin in the Order at the end of TPM, which means Mace voted against him - but i'm sure that was wrong too.

Did you even consider that Mace didn't take Anakin for Anakins own sake?

- O_F

 

"Did you even consider that Mace didn't take Anakin for Anakins
own sake?"

O_F, that would never be considered b/c the Jedi are just EVIL
and Ani is a cute wittle puppy who they abused so he turned to
the dark side

 

Maybe it is how I was brought up, or the state I was raised in, but, IMO if you are going to kill other defenseless people then the same should happen to you. Just like the death penalty. Sids was trying to kill Mace. The only reason Mace didn't chop his head off as soon as Sids quit with the lightning is that he noticed Anakin walk in. If Anakin hadn't walked in, this wouldn't be a topic because he would have killed Sids in battle. Anyway, if I had walked into the room and I knew that Sids was the mastermind behind everything, I would let Mace do his thing. Also, Sids was way to dangerous to stay in prison. You saw how he threw those seats like a frisbee in his fight with Yoda, you think a door or for that matter a wall would hold him. I think not!!!!

 

Interesting thread! *S*

Let me make clear that I am NOT one of those who make a lot of "excuses" for Anakin... understanding what drives someone, or saying that they faced temptations, does not, in my opinion, spare them from the consequences of their decisions...

That being said...

I think, to discuss the question fairly, we have to stick with what Anakin could reasonably KNOW as he enters the room to find Mace standing over Palpatine. I don't think we can reasonably say tht Anakin knows how powerful Palpatine is, or that Palpatine just killed several Jedi with astonishing ease, and I don't think the issue of Palpatine feigning weakness -- or not! -- is relevant here, as I don't think we can reasonably argue that Anakin had any insight into that, one way or the other.

For me, the problem is that while I can make arguments for Anakin "saving" Palpatine for good reasons (not necessarily RIGHT ones, but reasons growing out of good or noble intentions!), Anakin's actions, right afterwards, make it hard to argue that he acted out of good intentions.

I mean, if we go back to the original post, the original premise... and we argue that Anakin "saves" Palpatine because he thinks it wrong to kill a "helpless" prisoner (even though, of course, he did the same thing with Dooku), then how are we to take Anakin's reaction when Palpatine springs gleefully and powerfully to life and slaughters Mace? Anakin is not horrified, Anakin does not then attack Palpatine, or try to bring him to justice himself... If he was horrified at the thought of Mace potentially killing a "helpless" opponent, he seems to very quickly get over Palpatine doing the same. And his comments, right afterward, make it pretty clear that he acted less out of horror at the general notion of Mace killing someone, than he did at the notion of Mace making it impossible for Anakin to get what HE wants from Palpatine.

IT also suggests that Anakin flat out does not trust Mace. If he did, he might think that, not having seen what just transpired (before his arrival), thre might be a solid reason for Mace thinking as he does.

Guess what i am trying to say (badly, in my under-caffeinated state! *S*) is that while one CAN imagine a scenario in which acting to "save" a tyrant could spring from good and noble intentions, it is not easy to make a case that this is what happens in ROTS. Nor, I think, are we MEANT to make such a case. Anakin reacts out of selfish fear, fear that he will lose somone he needs, for his own greedy purposes.

Or so it seems to me...

Shadow

 

"Would You Save The Life Of A Helpless Tyrant?"

No.

 

You cant demand loyalty of somebody you never show any respect for. Sure Mace tells Anakin that he will have gained his trust if the information about Palps is true, but hello! Anakin is a great hero of the war, he defeated the second greatest enemy of the Jedi in the last 1000 years(Dooku), wy should he not be trusted(from the povs of the Jedi.

Still that doesn't, change the fact that Anakin knew saving Palps was wrong.

By the way Dooku was to dangerous to be left alive, he could still have thrown stuff at Anakin and Obi-Wan if they took him with them.

 

I agree with Obi_Frans here. Some may think that Mace not taking Anakin with him was pure arrogant, but now that i think about it, Mace was not telling him to "Get lost, punk!", he was warning him that since he, Anakin, had much confusion, the Sith would use it for his own purposes.

I'm going to be looking at things from Anakin's point of veiw. Here, we have the Jedi that seems to not trust him no matter what he does to prove himself, and he walks in to see Mace holding his saber at Palpy's throat. Now, pretend that you are Anakin, now remember, Anakin was on his way there at the time Palpy was slaughtering the other four Jedi and fighting Mace to the death, so when Anakin comes, to him, it appears that Mace is going to kill an unarmed prisoner. Yes, Anakin's stupidity comes in when he witnesses Palpy zapping Mace. It should have clued in on him that Palpy was STILL too dangerous to be kept alive. What makes me wonder is, why does he say that it's wrong when Mace is about to strike Palpy down, but when Palpy is zapping an unarmed (Literally and figurtivly) Mace Windu, he just stands there.

Yeah, he was stupid, he should have listened to Mace.

 

If I had a shot at being said tyrannt's right hand man?
Absolutely.
Just out of karma, or sense of civic duty?
Nah... how pedestrian.

 

Oh yeah, he did say the same thing, didn't he? I never even put that together. Good call.

 

No I would not. I'd grab the closest blunt object and take care of him myself.

 

If I had walked in and saw what Palpatine was doing - proving that he was not unarmed and very eager to kill Mace in a very brutal way - I'd leave it and allow Palpatine to die. He proved that he was not weak as otherwise he wouldn't have attacked Mace in the first place.

If Mace was about to strike Palpatine after knocking him down then I'd have problems with it but the lightning proved that Palpatine deserved whatever came to him and that he needed to die.

 

Even if Palps did not have the power to use force lightening and the light saber was his only weapon I would have killed him after disarming him. I would not put anyone else's safety at risk by allowing a Sith who just killed 3 Jedi and controls the senate to live.

 

Let's remember what the poster said:

I am walking into this situation knowing who Mace is, and knowing who Palpatine is. I am NOT Anakin. My wife's life is not on the line, and I have no personal relationship with either one of them.

HOWEVER...I would know that Palpatine is a Sith Lord. Sith Lords are the epitome of evil. They use every method of violence and manipulation to gain their own selfish ends...and they do so proudly, without hesitation. They teach this philophosy to all thier students, and religously hold it to be better than all other ways of life. For thousands of YEARS this plauge has swept the galaxy, rising again every so many years, and EVERY TIME the Sith involved have had to be executed. There is no way to contain them, no way to convert them. They must die.

This is not a philphosy course. I don't have time to argue the "do the ends justify the means" crap. I don't have time to discuss this in a commitee. I have to make a choice, because the lives and wellfare of every living being in the entire galaxy depends on my decision RIGHT NOW!

I would help Mace take the $%%#$'s head off.

Violetsaber

 

The question is, I think, a good one. And a tough one.

First off, lets assume that Anakin truly believes Sidious is helpless. It doesnt matter is Sidious really IS helpless, in this context...just that Anakin believes him to be helpless. It is interesting to contemplate what Mace thought at that point. He clearly knew Sidious wielded enormous political power (and therefore felt that Sidious was likely going to be able to wriggle out of any "legal" approach that could be taken). What we don't know, and likely never WILL know, is if Mace felt Sidious was truly helpless to prevent a saber strike.

In that context, I could SEE Anakin blocking Mace's strike. Stopping a killing blow. Not so much because Sidious in particular is "worthy" of saving (and Anakin's motives, in the movie, are hardly unselfish...he feels he NEEDS Sidious for reasons of his own!), but to prevent Mace from doing something that he/the Jedi would later regret (possibly)...killing a "helpless" prisoner.


Please note however - Anakin does NOT simply block Mace's attack. He lops off Mace's hand and leaves Mace utterly helpless. And even when he then sees an unarmed Mace slaughtered by Sidious... he does not then reject Sidious. Think about that a moment -- Mace about to kill "helpless" Sidious = Anakin in turmoil, moved to action... Sidious KILLING a helpless and disarmed Mace = Anakin momentarily troubled, then quickly JOINING Sidious...

However, wandering a bit. The original quesiton..what would "I" do? I am not sure. I MIGHT block Mace's killing blow, but only to assure him that I would help him bring Sidious in for trial. OR... I might waver...and it would all be over...

Shadow

 

Well said, Violetsaber! I would do the same.

 

Even when trying to walk in Anakin's shoes let's not forget that those shoes stepped over 3 dead Jedi to enter that room.

 

As a school teacher who all walks the path of the warrior...haha...I can't even get past that first part, that's just too funny...anyway, I walk the path of the coward, so if I were in Anakin's place, I would have just run out of the room.

What should have been done? Well, Lucas pretty much says that Mace was doing the right thing by arresting Palpatine, but he changes his mind after the lightning (I don't have the quote with me, but that's very close). Another interesting thing is that on the commentary GL says that Anakin thinks he's doing the right thing by protecting the chancellor.

So, I think there are a couple ways to look at this. Clearly, the Jedi are not supposed to kill unarmed prisoners who are beging for their lives. However, Palpatine uses this to his advantage to fake his weakness, thus forcing Anakin to choose. We also know, however, that Anakin's motives are not completely honorable. He wants to save Palpatine's life for a specific reason, to save Padme.

I love the fact that we are in the 21st century and people are still walking the path of the warrior! What a world! All you warriors should go check out this website: www.realultimatepower.net. It's sweet!

 

I'm glad someone cared to make this distinction. I think anyone who's trying to make excuses for Anaklin should keep that in mind. While I agree that stopping Mace would have been the right thing to do (for a Jedi anyway), whether for the right reasons or not, but attacking Mace most certainly wasn't.

As for the topic, well, if I could believe that the tyrant in question can be prevented from committing any further crimes in any other way than killing him, then I guess I'd try to save him. However, if he could most likely get away with all the evil he had done, and even continue doing it, I think I'd just let the "good warrior" finish him off, though probably I would feel bad about it.

 

Kudos!