ST Would you want to see a return of the acrobatic fighting style of the prequels?

I can't remember the details of the fight scenes in TFA as I've only seen it once.

I really like the duels in the OT - the darth maul scene(s) are probably my favourite actually.

I have come to the conclusion that humanity cannot be pleased.

 

I've struggled with this. The lightsaber "is the weapin of a jedi." Also, other than things like ligtning and throwing stuff, how do you show fighting with the Force? We see a struggle between and Rey and Kylo in TFa, but that really can't last for more than a minute.

 

I liked that effect, it made it feel like like he was really a different style and power than everyone else, and that it was forcing Dooku into a really uncomfortable spot.

I would like to mention I love it like it is in the cartoon as well, especially for a dream sequence (probably my favorite TCW scene), but not more than the live action.

 

Good point and I don't really have an answer. I just know that seeing Yoda jump around like a hyper monkey on crack didn't work for me.

 

I think whatever Luke was doing in ROTJ would be the kind of acrobatics I'd like to see. And it would be great as people have said, actually have the Lightsaber duel aid in storytelling and develop the characters. That said, the concept of Lightsaber acrobatics and armies of Jedi/Sith going at it should not be written off just yet. Just have the next guy who wants to make that sort of spectacle not be named George Lucas.

 

I think LOTR did a great battle between wizards.

 

Faster, more intense.

Seriously though, I agree with most of you. The PT should have the faster paced, the OT the slower methodical approach, and the ST will show an evolution back to (almost) the PT style. It's just reflective of the time periods. And I like that.


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And why would you need to swing with force when a gentle tap with a light saber is enough to kill you, or cut off a limb??

 

Maybe you watch too many fiction battles?

Sure, two opponents looking for an opening is very, very real. But they do it by measuring each other, the distance, the stance, the others insecurity/confidence. They don't go striking blow close to each other doing flamboyant flourishes. In fact, I would like if one of those lightsaber battles had that kind of two opponents measuring each other with the huge tension those momments carries.

 

Again. These are not real, metallic swords. There is no need to forcefully swing it. A gentle tap is enough to kill.
As for the ST fights? Give me a combo of PT and TFA (If the story gets us there, aka, if the characters end up getting trained to perfection of the PT jedi), or expand the TFA raw style if the characters don't get trained to perfection. Just don't give me the OT style light saber fights. That would look lazy, outdated and would be ridiculous in a modern Star Wars movie.

 

I would most definitely love to see PT style lightsaber battles. I miss Nick Gillard. Visuals of the PT duels were amazing.
TFA duels were clunky, choreography seemed a bit lazy to me.

I understand the slow fights in the OT: Vader was restricted by the suit, and Luke was just a student. But Kylo Ren is a "master of the knights of Ren" and had years of training - he should have put up a much better fight than he did.

 

The strong blow seemed more aimed to disrupt the block than to actually cut the flesh. Plus, I think Ren's style has more passion than technique on it. No one considers, perhaps he isn't a good lightsaber fighter. He is gifted with the force, stopping a blaster shot mid air, but that's it. One other possibility is the whole "weakened by a blaster shot in the stomach" part coupled with the emotional scar of killing his own father (it seemed to affect him pretty hard). The Ren who fough Finn and Rey was a more disturbed than normal Ren.

 

Mostly I buy the normalcy (as in like real life) of OT, because Vader wasn't ever really going all out. the medium ground works, and they still get pretty fancy in some of the fencing moves in RotJ. I buy the suit as restrictive vs Lightning, or maybe a little in force speed, but I don't buy that he is weaker in the force, or unable to stand vs his former self, frankly, I think it is way more logical if he is stronger, physically and with the force, making completely up for being slightly, yes only slightly slower.

pretty sure it was mostly about the practicality of PT combat, not the impracticality of strong blows. a fierce blow could force someones own saber through their forehead.

 

I have no problem with Kylo's "heavier" swinging style. He was wounded, he isn't fully trained and JJ and co choose that style for TFA. I like it. What annoys me is people ******** about PT jedi simply tapping their sabers when there is a perfectly good reason for doing that. The LIGHT sabers are much much lighter than regular swords. They don't require a forceful swing to inflict serious damage. So George going with that style wasn't crazy, stupid or not understanding of SW.

 

Well pointed out

 

Cannot see the image you posted

 

It is clear that there is some physical resistance from objects. After all, Qui-Gonn seem to have to force the blade through the door in TPM. And lots of folks seem to get hit with lightsabers and not killed. Sure it CAN kill, and more effectively than a sword, but the tapping does not seem consistent with the other things we've seen. Not to mention, it LOOKS goofy to me. If no force is required, then a totally different style of fighting would developed, focused on very small, rapid movements, more like modern fencing (which just requires a touch), rather than sweeping swings and showy twirls.

 

I don't prefer one of the other. I like the realism and and emotion fuelled duels in the CT and ST but I also adore the acrobatic fighting styles and the lightsaber combat forms of the PT. Would I like to see a return? Not yet, to me, the Jedi and Sith in the PT were superior in force abilities and lightsaber combat and I don't see how the current tiny band of force sensitives can compare... Unless things change in the future.

 

The tapping lightsaber isn't so much of problem. Unlike real world blades, you don't need to concern with your sword loosing the edge from hitting another sword. My problem was with the unnecessary flourishing. And I like flourishing, it's just that some parts of the PT take it too far (like the scene I posted a GIF about).

 

I have no problem with Kylo's "heavier" swinging style. He was wounded, he isn't fully trained and JJ and co choose that style for TFA. I like it. What annoys me is people ******** about PT jedi simply tapping their sabers when there is a perfectly good reason for doing that. The LIGHT sabers are much much lighter than regular swords. They don't require a forceful swing to inflict serious damage. So George going with that style wasn't crazy, stupid or not understanding of SW.[/quote]
we should start a thread to educate our fellow fans on the insanity of Lightsaber combat.

you realize that the doors are specifically blaster resistant right? that is basically the most resistance of anything other than Phrik alloy and other lightsaber stopping metals. the reason they wind up (although dooku fights exactly like you suggest) is because power helps tire out your opponent and maybe even force their own blade into them. the swing harder than necessary because it feels natural. Although if the ST has Luke fighting like you suggest (basically Kendo and fencing combined), that would be amazing

 

Sure. But the the fact that Jedi swing the blade in wide arcs indicates some need for force. Otherwise, smaller movements would be more efficient. I think we have to just admit that the style chosen were largely chosen because they have visual appeal (to the director, anyway). To me, what appeals more visually is more physical style. I personally would prefer to see something more akin to the late medieval longsword techniques. The fight we saw in TFA includes some of those elements (such as grappling while fighting), and I think that would be very interesting. We haven't seen much of that on screen before in any movie.

 

I agree.

We saw that in ROTS final duel first

 

Yes obviously, everything in movies is always visual appeal, even if the appeal is "realism". I want something new in this trilogy too, and The anthologies and a hopeful live action SWTOR in 10 years, but that doesn't make the moves in the prequels illogical. Requirement of strength and the usefulness of strength are different things. Frankly i want Ren to be BRUTALLY physical. Like he is the Mountain for GoT with a claymore, but slightly more refined obviously. He disappointed me in that area, and in his technique, hopefully the cause is the wounds (even if his opponents were both FS and Rey was trained, he still looked sloppy and underwhelming).

 

Yeah, he looks raw and undisciplined. I think was kind of the point. With Luke's students dead, and Luke in hiding, even a relatively undisciplined and incompletely trained Force user is a someone to be reckoned with. Like the old saying says, in the Land of the Blind, the one-eyed man is King. This also reflects by his shock when Rey not only resists his mind probe, but counter-attacks. Normally, even a Force sensitive would have been unable to do that. She is clearly VERY strong with the Force, and might even have some previous training. We'll see. But it's clear to me that Ren has not faced anyone truly able to face him up to this point. He's used to cutting his way through everyone and everything. Snoke seems content to let him sink into his anger and fury even more.... presumably to set the hook of the Dark Side even deeper. He only wants to complete his training when he thinks Ren is too deep in the Dark Side to claw his way back out. So his fighting style is all aggression, but not much technique. He really hasn;t had a need for it. He kind of relishes the fight with Finn. A chance to sort of "pretend" he is facing an equal (I'm of the opinion Finn will become a Jedi, but he is not as naturally strong as Rey), until Finn manages to wound him, then he just unleashes his anger and seriously hurts Finn. Rey is faring a bit better than Finn, because she actively called on the Force to pull the lightsaber. She might not even have done so consciously. But she is not able to REALLY use the Force until she reaches out to it. You can see Ren's shock when she does so, and I love the scene when you can see the locked sabers reflected in his eyes, mirroring his internal conflict, and he is unable to act against her at that moment. I think he is truly struggling. And then, of course, with him so unbalanced in the Force, she is able to defeat him. It was that dynamic that makes this among the best duels, IMO. We were not just observing very skilled technicians, we were watching characters develop before our eyes, while locked in combat. Loved that. It will be hard to match that level of depth in a fight again, but I do hope we see that Ren has dedicated himself to facing her again, but with more technique and discipline. And of course, Rey will be trained as well. But then, I hope we see a lot more, with Finn, Luke, and the Knights of Ren. That could be epic, IMO.

 

Yes visual appeal to the director is always a big thing and the audience and basically everyone but the relative handful of us fans who like to pick things apart to the nines to make out the difference never mind all the similarities.

I find this all more than just a bit over the top overall.

The title talks about the "acrobatic" style of the prequels. Which as I constantly say over and again is something that for whatever reason some fans take and exaggerate it to levels that don't actually exist in the movies anymore than saying that the same kind of moves "dominate" the OT duels.

JJ specifically said in some interviews that he wanted to harken back to the ANH and TESB duels NOT the ROTJ one which apparently had too many "acrobatics" for him or was it too fast and athletic?

When was the last time he saw the TESB one?

Certainly TFA's 2 duels have just as much (a bit more I'd say) to do with the PT than what was seen in IV and V. In fact Vader "acrobatically" leaps down the steps in the carbon freeze chamber while Luke "acrobatically" leaps up then Vader is "acrobatically" kicked down then Luke "acrobatically"goes out a window!!

This kind of thing is going to happen when you are not dueling on a simple even surface that doesn't allow for much changing of levels. Obviously changing of levels is not a part of Vader and Obi-Wan on the Death Star but is huge on Mustafar. It plays parts in TESB and ROTJ as well as TPM but not in AOTC where Dooku vs Obi-Wan and Anakin is on one level. Yoda IS acrobatic of course so uses everything around him for his leaping which makes total sense for the character who is just over 2 feet tall.

Most of Dooku vs Anakin and Obi-Wan in ROTS is one level as well. Sidious as Yoda's mirror self is also more acrobatic. Their Force abilities are extreme so why shouldn't they be able to use the Force to advantages that no one else can do?

As I said before comparing the 3 duels of the OT with 3 combatants to the PT with some dozen duels and sub-duels (Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan vs Maul, Qui-Gon vs Maul, Obi-Wan vs Maul) and all the different circumstances and character and emotional depths that come into play doesn't really work.

Rey did some very specific Anakin aggressive moves. If they didn't want to echo that then they could have chosen to not use those moves. They did so just by inclusion. The whole aspect of Kylo Ren and Rey locked together while Ren talks about showing Rey the ways of the Force and that unlocks something inside her has a clear parallel to Anakin and Dooku locked together in ROTS then Dooku saying Anakin has anger than he doesn't use.

In both cases Anakin and Rey then proceed to overpower their opponents.