Colum, OH Wow, this guy is ticked

Discussion in 'Mid West Regional Discussion' started by lazer310, Sep 11, 2006.

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  1. lazer310 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2000
    star 3
    I saw this on a site today, and as we gather to hit Walmart at midnight, this will be lingering in the back of my head. Taken from theshiznit.co.uk (slightly edited for language)

    $TAR WAR$: AN OPEN LETTER TO GEORGE LUCAS
    An Empire in ruins


    Dear Mr Lucas,

    Stop. Please just stop.

    I can?t take it anymore. A writer more talented than you (not including my 5 month-old nephew) once wrote: ?Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or to take arms against a sea of troubles, and by opposing end them.? Well now is the time when I can no longer suffer and must take arms against your money-grabbing, face-urinating evil ways. You cannot understand my pain; it is beyond your autistic, self-important ivory-towered existence where toadying henchman agree with your every utterance and you wipe your puckering a**hole with the money of eager fans. You have no idea how hard it now has become to be a Star Wars fan. Where once we stood proud (ignoring the convention-goers of course) and held aloft our lightsabers proclaiming ?May the force be with you,? now we cast sad eyes upon the ruins of a once great Empire, wiping away a tear as we turn our back upon a legacy and admit, finally, we were wrong.

    I, like so many others deceived, stood in line for The Phantom Menace daring to hope that, after 20 years, we would once more be amongst our childhood dreams and heroes. And, like so many others, we filed outside afterwards confused and doing our best to convince ourselves that we enjoyed what we had witnessed. I agree that expectation would never match what would be delivered onscreen, but it felt like a dagger to the heart to witness the gutless excuse of a movie you actually produced. But we took strength and drew hope that Attack of The Clones would prove Menace to be no more than you finding your feet after so many years away from directing and writing. But no, Attack of The Clones was just as poorly executed as Menace. It just had more flashing lights and videogame set-pieces with a little less of that Rasta-haddock Jar Jar Binks. Finally, it was with a heavy heart that I welcomed Revenge of The Sith, accepting it was going to, in the parlance of our times ?suck a**.? So great was my reluctance to accept this onrushing faecal juggernaut as the closure to a lifetime?s love of Star Wars that I watched it on pirate DVD. I couldn?t allow myself to give you more of my money simply to watch it for the sake of it completion. To this day, I haven?t bothered to watch Sith on legit DVD nor purchase it ? because a shiny **** is still a ****.

    I bought the originally trilogy on VHS way back when, it was a regular staple of my movie diet. I went to see the Remastered versions at the cinema because I was a child when they were originally released and wanted to see them again playing wide and loud. And I bought those again on VHS because I?m a fanboy tool. I bought the Star Wars monopoly board game because I?m a fanboy tool. I should?ve known better after The Phantom Menace, but I bought that on DVD because I thought maybe you would include all the cool stuff in the Deleted Scenes section, because there was no way that turgid film was the real Star Wars movie, it couldn?t possibly be. But nope, there it was in my living room in all its THX mediocrity. And I watched Attack of The Clones and bought that on DVD, knowing better but powerless to resist my fanboy urges. And I bought the Original Trilogy on DVD, despite them having pointless additions because I?m a fanboy tool. Now I learn that you are, yet again, re-releasing them on DVD. This time I can get the original, as-seen-in-the-cinema versions as well as the butchered new editions.

    Well no more, Mr Lucas.

    You shall receive not one more penny from this fanboy tool. Because what was once great has now been reduced to little more than your personal ATM. Tweak an explosion here, insert a new awesome CGI monster called Bungfwap doing backflips and that?s another $400 million you can stuff in your goitre. Nope. Not going to happen
  2. chewykingwookie Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2005
    star 4
    Boy this guy sounds a lil upset. I know several people that feel the same way as he does. I really didn't like the prequels when I first saw them. It took me several times seeing ROTS before I finally sorta enjoyed it. I just wish that the madness of all the re-releases would be done and a final box set with all the deleted scenes back in the movies be put out. That I am sure would make every SW fan happy.
  3. Darth_William Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2002
    star 2
    Make every Star Wars fan happy? As if that was even possible!
    I feel really sorry for the guy who wrote that essay. If he indeed feels ripped off by Lucas,
    I hope he finds something else in life that restores the joy that Star Wars once gave him.
    I have-they're called the Prequels-and I love them dearly, warts and all. :)



  4. bekkara Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2006
    Well, he said it himself, he's a tool. One who probably doesn't deserve to call himself a fan of Star Wars.

    I remember listening to an interview with Steve Sansweet about this latest DVD release in which he said something along the lines of "You don't have to buy it." Andy, pal, no one is holding a gun to your head. You don't like it? You don't have to like it, nor do you have to buy it. But for pete's sake, stop ruining it for the rest of us, eh?

    ** hops on soapbox **

    If there's one thing I've really come to respect about George Lucas, it's his artistic integrity. Or, perhaps stubborness is a better word. These are his movies, always have been, and as far as I can tell, he's never let anyone take them away from him, and he never will. OK, sure, the dialogue in ROTS could definitely have used some help (it occured to me yesterday while watching it on HBO that it would be interesting to see what Kirsch would have done with it), and yes, the effects were a little overwhelming in places, but you know what? More power to you, GL. I salute your integrity -- precious few people know the meaning of that word these days.

    And might I point out that things like poor dialogue and almost over the top effects are nothing new? GL is well known for pushing the envelope when it comes to effects -- the ones in the OT were quite advanced for their time. And I don't think we need to look any further than "I'll not leave you here, I've got to save you!" in ROTJ for examples of poor dialogue in the OT.

    Regardless, however, I find myself compelled more by the story George weaves with Star Wars than with the dialogue and effects. It explores themes that have been pondered as far back as the Ancient Greek and Roman dramatists and epic poets (and probably before), and in a way that makes them as vibrant and relevant now as they were two thousand years ago.

    Quite frankly, I'm more inclined to respect someone who will choose to tell a great story poorly over not to tell it at all.

    ** gets down from soapbox **
  5. Darth_William Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2002
    star 2
    =D= Bekkara!

    Couldn't have said it better myself.
    Though I'm not sure I agree with that last statement... [face_thinking]
    Now look out! Here comes CJ!...:mad:
  6. TravisTheGeek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 15, 2006
    star 1
    Okay, there was a re-release just a couple of years ago, right? And we're having another now, yes? And, if I remember correctly, isn't there another one already in the works.
    Explain to me again the bit about "artistic integrity".
    I don't think new effects and some changes are the problem. I think it's the blatant exploitation of his loyal fans. Because, let?s face it, we?re not all right in the head. Most of use would buy a bucket of human waste if someone slapped the ol? Star Wars logo on it and told us that it was a collectible. Lucas knows this and he?s using it to his advantage. If it was really about artistic integrity and wanting to tell the story that he ?intended to tell all those years ago?, he?d wait for the technology to catch up to his vision and re-release them then and then let it alone. He can?t re-do it all every time a new computer program comes out that will make the hairs on Jaba?s butt flow more naturally.
    You know, when the Venus De Milo was originally sculpted, it had arms. And, perhaps, it would look more like the sculptor?s original vision if they were replaced. With modern technology, I?m sure it would be no problem at all. It wouldn?t even be the first time such restorations have been suggested. Still, it would be a crime against a classic piece of art.
    Oh, heck, screw it all. Replace the arms with walkie-talkies and call it a hobo. I give up.

    PS: Here?s another thought. How about, instead of constantly updating Star Wars, why doesn?t Toy Boy Lucas, oh, I don?t know, come up with a new idea and make NEW movies? (And, no, the prequels don?t count because they were still riding on old ideas.)
  7. DarthFloyd Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2002
    star 4
    Nana nana nana nana CJ!!! Nana nana nana nana TRAVIS! TRAVIS! CJ!!

    Sorry, felt like singing the old Batman theme to get the discussion flowing!:D

    I agree with travis. Its not "artistic integrity" when your artistic vision has to change because you hadn't thought about something yet (Its not like I see shakespeare coming back to life and scribbling notes in my copy of Macbeth...that was clearly done by the people who owned the book before me...I think), or when you tweak something ever so slightly, release it, and do it again and again and again. This seems to be what Lucas is doing, just so he can milk our cash from us every year. Its not artistic integrity, its redefining the vision for today, and then trying to get away with it by saying "well, I had this idea 30 years ago, because I always knew that this would happen...yeah, that's the ticket..." He makes it "different enough" that its considered a whole new film (especially by lucas, whose definitive version of the film has had something like 10 renditions to this point, where the only thing that changed was whether Princess leia ate cream of wheat or cheerios in the death star detention center). I just get sick of Lucas refusing to acknowledge that he is just making a variation on the original film. Guess what. There's only one Star Wars, and it came out in 1977. Your "definitive version" Lucas, THAt came out in 2004 (soon to be 2007), but it isn't Star Wars. Try as you like, change whatever you want, finish what you want, and argue how you want, it still isn't Star Wars. Sorry. It will always have that tagline that says "Definitive edition", "Special Edition", "new edition - now with more Bobby Brown", or "Director just can't get his hands off the stupid editing machine edition." Is the film yours, to do what you want with it and release it however many times you want? Yup. Sure is. But everytime you release it with a new scene, new cgi, or new tint, that changes the characters, settings or story, you aren't making Star Wars. You're making a new film, which you're going to expand upon again in a few years, and again and again and again until you end up with nothing left. That is why Star Wars belongs to the fans - Because Lucas doesn't even know where it is anymore. Its lost under good changes, bad changes, and enough CGI to keep a computer geek drooling forever.

    Is that what the definition of artistic integrity is? If so, give me the integrity lacking version, cuz I still think it was done better the first time.

    Ok, I gotta go. I heard Lucas got his hands on the Matrix movies, and I want to kiss my family goodbye before the world implodes.
  8. TravisTheGeek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 15, 2006
    star 1
    Eh, he can have the second two. Who knows, Keanu and Hayden might hit it off.

    /The Batman theme bit has officially made my day, lol.
  9. bekkara Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2006

    Definition of integrity

    May I draw your attention to the second definition: "the state of being whole, entire or undiminished".

    I think the sticking point here is who defines when Star Wars is "whole" and/or "undiminished", whose principles are being adhered to or ignored here -- in other words, who does Star Wars belong to? I say George Lucas -- it was his idea, his work and his money that created Star Wars in the first place. Being a fan of something doesn't automatically give one the right to take ownership of it.

    CJ, you are quite entitled to be a purist about it. I respect that as well, and I don't expect you or anyone else to like or see in the prequels and re-releases what I see. I do, however, expect the same respect in return. Which is what pushed my button so much about that letter. You don't like it, don't buy it. You think George Lucas has sold out? Don't buy what he's selling. But don't rain on my parade while you're at it.

    I sure wouldn't -- I like being able to make rent. I also think that says more about the fan than about the creator. Blaming George Lucas for such things would be the equivalent of me blaming Phillip Morris for my smoking addiction or McDonald's for making America overweight. Returning to my original point: no one is holding a gun to your head. You do not have to buy it. You'll probably do a better job of making your point by not buying it than by trotting out the same tired argument in an attempt to tell George Lucas what he ought to do with his movie.




  10. Darth_William Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2002
    star 2
    I usually try to stay out of these arguments on message boards, but I feel compelled to respond to this:
    I fail to see how it's Lucas' fault that, as you say, "we're not all right in the head." All the fans that are b**ching about the multiple dvd releases are grown adults and as such should behave like responsible consumers. As Kat said, no one's holding a gun to anyone's head here & you cannot be "exploited" if you don't allow it to happen.
    Is every Coke drinker being exploited by the Coca-Cola company when they release 17 different varieties of their favorite soft drink to market?
    Of course not. How is this any different?
    Lucas is an artist and a businessman (one of the worlds most successful at both). As an artist, he has a responsibility to remain true to his own vision. That's the definition of integrity.
    He has stated many times that the original theatrical versions of Star Wars were not as he envisioned them, but instead were constrained by the limitations of the technology/time/money available to him at the time.
    To remain true to his "artistic integrity", he continues to refine and revise his vision until he is personally satisfied with the final result.
    I would argue that to do otherwise, would in fact, be artistically corrupt.
    As a businessman, he has a financial responsibility towards his company and all the people that it employs to continue the success of his home-grown business. If you don't like a product he puts out, and don't think it's worth your hard-earned money to buy it, then don't. We need to take responsibilty for our own actions in this free-market, capitalistic society we live in and stop blaming an artist for being financially successful in it.
    Does financial success negate artistic merit? I don't think so. Neither do I think that financial failure does. Ideally, an artist will acheive both financial and artistic success and everyone's happy. Kind of like what happened with the Star Wars phenomenon the first time, or with the Lord of the Rings Trilogy more recently. But we are talking about Star Wars fans post-SE/post-prequel era here, and I'm afraid making them all happy is now not an option. It's against George Lucas's artistic intergrity to ONLY release the version of Star Wars that YOU (or any of us for that matter) find merit in. Who are we to argue with that?
  11. lazer310 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2000
    star 3
    Wow, and actual discussion! Haven't had one of these in a long time!

    Kat, I see your point that it is all in the mind of the buyer. If a person is ticked off about the release, then dont buy it. Plain and simple. And that is what I did this past Tuesday. I didn't see the need to buy these versions, because I already have them. And I don't want the crappy transfers from the laserdiscs. And as far as I can see, that is the only selling point.

    And I think the charging of people is where everything goes south. We all have been loyal to this brand for a good portion of our lives. But yet, we are "expected" to buy a new release of the same old movies every few years. But there will come a time in every fans mind where they have to embrace the dark side, and say enough is enough. They have to say that they will only buy x and y, but not z. Or only x, and not y or z. I think that the guy who wrote the letter just needs to make up his mind, if he is a compleist, or a fan.

    CJ, I disagree about SW being a new film everytime a change is made. To me, it is always Star Wars. It's still Luke, Leia, Chewie and Han running around the Death Star. Now if there was some change where Lucas started toying with the overall story, then it becomes a different movie.
    If we went back, and made a change to GFA, no matter how large or small, we would have a good reason for doing it. The reason would probably be that we thought we could fix a shot, or make something look better. It's still the same episode, and we are trying to enhance it for our viewers. We're not trying to tick anyone off, but make it better. But Lucas knows he can make a change, throw it on DVD, and 90 percent of the fan population will buy it. If we had a following like that with GFA, wouldn't we do the same thing? Get twice the amount of money for the same product. Where do I sign up?
  12. bekkara Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2006

    Clarify something for me. Who expects us to buy anything that Lucasfilm sells? I dare say it isn't anyone at Lucasfilm, least of all George Lucas. Sure, they'd like us to, but they are placing no responsibility on any of us to do so. Boba Fett is not going to show up at your house and disintegrate you're entire family while you watch if you don't buy them. (That's just Karen Traviss' books. ;) )

    Once again, responsibility falls firmly on the shoulders of the "fan" that keeps buying the product.
  13. Darth_William Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2002
    star 2
    Chris, I felt the exact same way about these new releases. Which is why I skipped them also.

    AND

    Again, agreed. This is the same policy I employ with my Star Wars collection.
    Do some completists really believe that owning every Star Wars collectible ever made makes them more of a Star Wars fan than someone who doesn't collect at all? if that's true then...WOW.
    I buy the stuff I like the most, and don't worry about the rest of it.
    As far as dvds go, for me that is currently the 2004 Editions (hopefully to be replaced next year by the 2007 editions). Does that make me less of a "true" Star Wars fan, or a "traitor" to the cause of most fans of my generation (the ones who were around & can remember the '77 theatrical release)?
    If so, 'Order 66' me & so be it!
    As for collectibles, I can't possibly afford (nor really would I want to even if I could) 'one of everything' released with a Star Wars label on it. And I don't think it makes me any less of a Star Wars fan than someone who owns multiple copies of every piece of Star Wars merchandise out there! I also don't feel any pressure from Lucasfilm that I would be a better fan if I did, either! My Star Wars stuff is for my pleasure, not George Lucas's. Sure, I help line his pocket with the money I contribute to his companies in the process, but his products have given me a LIFETIME of enjoyment in exchange. Not a bad deal, IMO.
  14. lazer310 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2000
    star 3
    Maybe "expect" wasn't the right word. But we have all had the same experience at one point. Someone we know asks if we picked up the new copy of Star Wars, because they saw a commercial on TV about it last night, and they thought about us. While far from an actual expctation, our cloest friends and family outside of SW, would expect you to say "Of course I bought it!", just for the fact that it is SW.
    I guess my clarification is that by expect, I mean the general population. The people who know what SW is, but aren't into like we are. All they know is you like SW, and there is a new product out, so they expect that you would go get it. I didn't mean to imply that Boba Fett would show up. But if he did, how freakin cool would that be?!
  15. DarthFloyd Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2002
    star 4
    Boba Fett[image=http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2002/02/04]


    Kat, I do respect your views, because I want everyone to have a choice in what they watch. I don't feel that Lucas feels the same way, however. I don't think that he cares for anything except for the almighty dollar and his "artistic integrity." Now, let me rebutt your definitions (paraphrased).

    1) Sticking to a strict vision
    2) a sense of wholeness

    Now, in regards to both of them, yes, Lucas is the one who decides when the movies are "whole". The problem with that being the fact that it seems every time Katie wants a new pony, or everytime Jett wants a new CGI clone to slice and dice, Lucas decides that "the movies aren't whole yet...better make some changes and put them back in stores." He can consisitently keep changing and altering til his heart's content, and in the end, we literally are left with nothing that resembles the original at all! Yes, Chris, its Luke and Leia and Han, but when they start walking around wearing Jar Jar outfits because Lucas thinks they're popular with kids, then that is a problem (mostly because by then he's completely senile and we need to take away his editing machine). Where do you draw the line? How many technological advances does one have to live through before he is happy? He was apparently perfectly happy with the 97 versions, but we can't stay that way for long, huh? We need to make it bigger and faster and stronger, til it is this hulking mass of CGI and technological improvements, but things that were never part of the original vision, nor were they a part of the vision when he was "Happy with them." I don't see this as artistic integrity, I see it as bowing to the dollar, and trying to steal it from others. And while I don't expect him to like the movies as they are in any version that he makes (yeah, every time I hear that "he's finally happy with them" I shake my head and wonder who bought into the lie this time), I do expect him to remember that he DID make them, and they ARE loved no matter how incomplete they are. If GFA or IHN radio was loved for being what I thought was lackluster, I'd probably change the format, but at least recognize the fact that I made the originals the way they were, not say they never happened. Bill brought up the fact of where you are from. I may not like Massillon, but I recognize that it has made me what I am today, and that it is always going to be there, regardless of what happens (even if it is completely remodeled, levelled and erased, there will always be the fact that it was there, and I'll remember that, whether I liked it or not). I expect Lucas, even if he doesn't like it, to accept that those films were made. That there are people who DO love them for all that they are worth. And to treat them as if they are the cause of his millions, because they are. Without them, he wouldn't have a cent in the bank. HAVE YOU WATCHED THX-1138?

    Chris, I'm not saying we wouldn't cash in on GFA by rereleasing an episode, but we'd modify the title. I would say, make it episode 2.1 or something. It would be funny, and it would be true. I'm not saying he makes a new movie, I just say that he makes a Variation...its not the original and can never be, because it has been altered. Is this ok in some cases? Yes - I don't know anyone mad at the fact that Star Wars says A New Hope at the beginning. But you can go overboard and make bad changes. Either way, however, you have a VARIATION on the film, never the original.

    As for who expects us to buy them? Come on people. If you think that Lucasfilm doesn't expect us to buy them, then the wool is wayyyy over your eyes. Why do you think they release them again and again? They KNOW we buy almost every version they put out. If we didn't, SW wouldn't be the property it is today. Lucas expects us to buy them, lucasfilm expects us to, and if we don't, they shrug and say, we'll get em next year. Don't think they don't.
  16. bekkara Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2006
    I don't see how George has completely discounted the existence of the original-OT -- the fact that he is releasing them on DVD, bonuses off of laserdiscs or otherwise, speaks to that.

    *snicker* Yes, I have seen THX-1138. It's...weird. I need to watch it again sometime. Although, on the topic of other GL movies, what about American Graffitti? That's actually a good movie -- see, George can do things that don't involve lots and lots of CGI and bad dialogue.

    "I've never seen something so beautiful that I know so little about."
    --Curt Henderson, American Graffiti

    Exactly my point. Capitalism at it's best. This is why NOT buying them makes a bigger statement to George Lucas than a whiny letter like the one our buddy Andy wrote up there does. It's a slight variation on the intent/interpretation of "expects" -- in terms of predicting the future as opposed to holding fans to some imaginary responsibility. Again, that former definition goes back to my point -- if enough people really are getting tired of the multiple re-releases, and if they don't buy them, revenues go down and the marketing monkeys at Lucasfilm have to come up with a better way to get our money. But as long as we keep buying them, whining about them isn't going to do anyone any good, and it just annoys those of us who actually do like the prequels (and, dare I say it, some of the changes in the re-releases).
  17. TravisTheGeek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 15, 2006
    star 1
    Edit: I posted and then realized that it was pointless. Never mind.
  18. TyriaTainer Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 4
    Ok, correct me if I'm wrong, cause God knows I'm wrong more often than I am right, but I'm pretty sure there were advances in film between '77 and '97. Maybe not huge advances, but advances all the same. If it was really all about just making money, Lucas could have had a million different versions by now. I'm not saying its not about money at all, I'm just saying there's more to it than just the money.

    I own one copy of one version of Star Wars, and thats because someone bought me a VHS version of ATOC. Does that mean I'm not a big Star Wars fan? I really hope you guys don't think that. Course if you look at my books and video games, you'll find I have more Star Wars than anything else, and I'm planning on buying the next Lego Star Wars game. Why? Because I love the characters and the story.

    Now if you'll excuse me, since the Originals are finally out on DVD, I'm taking this day I have off work to do a little shopping, finally!!
  19. DarthFloyd Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2002
    star 4
    I, unlike Travis, apprently thrive on pointless debate.


    He's completely discounted the existence of the OOT by saying repeatedly that they don't exist. While the release of the DVD's this week proves otherwise, there was also a big deal written when they were announced on how Lucas has still not changed his mind, and that they would never be given a better transfer, etc, because he doesn't care about them anymore.

    I would normally agree, except in two cases: Lucas, and Hasbro. To a normal person, such a sure thing not being purchased would prompt you to ask one question, logically: Why didn't this sell? Further, you would look into reasons why, and possibly alter things to do it later. Hasbro and Lucas don't see things this way, for MANY reasons. With hasbro, take the 7" unleashed line, which alot of people loved. It was so loved, in fact, that many of the figs sold out quickly, and can only be found on ebay, some between 50-300 dollars, depending on the day. Instead of looking at this trend and, say, rereleasing those figures that go for big bucks on ebay, (granted, they just rereleased the 100 dollar fetching Boba Fett for 20, which was a 5 dollar increase, but guaranteed most people wouldn't pay the 85 dollar increase from the auction site, though this is only one of a few that really need rereleased), they looked instead at the figures that had to be clearanced at most places. This list was comprised of: Aayla Secura, Tusken Raider, Bossk, Asajj Ventress, ROTS Anakin, and ROTS Obiwan, the last two only because their sculpts weren't great, and they were overshipped in anticipation of Episode 3. The logical person, seeing this list, would say, these are minor or EU characters, who in most cases shipped 2-3 per box of 6. Meanwhile, you had to be at the store when they stocked to get people like Grievous, Boba, Yoda, Maul, Jango, Leia, Stormtrooper, and Vader because alot of them were packaged 1 per box. Therefore, the market is overflooded with minor or EU characters that are each 15 dollars. I collect these, and if I had to choose, would always buy the major characters before the minors, hands down. That leaves ALOT of minors around.

    Hasbro saw this and said to themselves, the line isn't selling - let's cancel it. :eek:

    I'll say that again for those who missed it - Hasbro saw this and said to themselves, the line isn't selling - let's cancel it. :eek:

    Instead of building on research, instead of focusing on making more of the major characters available and less (or at least an equal amount) of the minors, they decided to discontinue the line (though it is coming back, somewhat, anyway). This is how Hasbro treats alot of its star wars lines. They'll make junky things like Star Wars transformers, but not something that could sell well by retooling how it is done. They see the non-purchase of a 50-90 dollar vehicle as "people don't want vehicles" instead of seeing it as, they don't want to pay us THAT MUCH for a vehic
  20. DarthFloyd Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2002
    star 4
    Its ok, Carri, I'm actually talking about the differences between the 97 and 2004 versions, and then again the versions we are supposedly getting, changed again, in 2007.

    And noone is calling you NOT a big star wars fan, we just razz you because we can. Heck, you're in OUR GROUP! Anyone who actively participates here is, by definition, a BIG star wars fan (Except maybe jon, but he costumes, so that throws the equation off). Why else would you put yourself through these diatribes and discussions?

    BTW, good work on going shopping!!! I hope it is implied that you will be going to a video store of some kind!
  21. bekkara Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2006
    *chuckle* Yay for pointless debate! Actually, what's really funny about that is that I used to avoid message boards like the plague for exactly that reason. :oops:

    Hmmmm....I knew there was a reason I didn't major in marketing.....[face_whistling]

    Your point about writing a letter is well taken. He certainly does have the right to let Lucasfilm know how he feels. Although it's not clear whether he's American or not, considering that letter was on a .co.uk site ;), he does have the right to speak his mind. Two things still bother me about it, though.

    1. Lack of respect. Whether we like what George Lucas is doing or not, he's been doing it a lot longer than most of us have and he's fought hard to be able to do it the way he wants to do it (this is where the integrity debate comes in). That deserves at least a little bit of respect, even if it's grudging respect.

    2. Hypocrisy. Do not call yourself a fan of something (or even a fanboy tool) and then rip it apart like that. That's just plain wrong. I have no patience for people who call themselves Star Wars fans but clearly can't stand the franchise.

    It also disappoints me that people like that would rather complain about what they think is wrong with the movies than try to look past the surface and see what makes Star Wars, Star Wars IMHO -- the story, and the characters. But that's highly subjective.
  22. Darth_William Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2002
    star 2
    Kat - So well spoken! Your sentiments here again mirror my own feelings on this subject exactly.
    Many Star Wars fans today seem to get so caught up in a cycle of bitterness and anger towards Lucas for tinkering with the Holy Trilogy of their childhoods that they let the feelings of joy and happiness they once got from the Saga get completely buried under all their frustration. I say, let it go! If Star Wars brings no joy to your life anymore, let go of the hate and go find something else that does! Nothing is perfect. I'm no expert on the subject, but doesn't real love have something to do with looking beneath the surface to find the true beauty of something/someone and loving them in spite of its/their flaws?
    In the end, all the effects changes and tweaks in the world will not change the core meaning of the story:
    A boy who was born with extraordinary potential in life, allowed hate and anger to nearly destroy him and the ones he loved, stumbled and made unalterable choices & mistakes with devastating consequences for an entire galaxy, and finally was ultimately redeemed only through the forgiveness and unconditional love of his son.

    Powerful stuff-and I for one, can't get enough of it! :D

    Star Wars IS Forever! CELEBRATE it!
  23. TravisTheGeek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 15, 2006
    star 1
    Heh, sorry guys. To clarify, I meant that my post was pointless, not necessarily the discussion.
  24. Krash RSA Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2000
    star 5
    =D= Bekkara! (your first post)

    Dear Andy,
    Get a job as Greedo's stunt-double in ANH!
  25. DarthFloyd Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2002
    star 4

    Only if han is allowed to shoot first!


    Kat - I agree. Well put, I just think he was very upset (It seems that this has been that way for quite awhile). When you just keep getting disappointed, its often hard to see those good qualities - that's why I always try to include some good points, even when discussing movies I feel have very little good about them at all. It shows that you do appreciate something about them, even if you feel they are totally worthless (yes, I know my choice of words is misleading, but even if a movie has one great thing in 2, or worse, 3 hours, to me it can still be worthless for having to sit through the rest of it). I believe he probably just got really really upset and blew up, as we humans are apt to do.

    Bill - I think you are stuck in one viewpoint, the view of Lucas NOW. NOW lucas' vision states that the whole is about Anakin's fall and eventual redemption. Most people that LOVE the original movies, however, and who were GREATLY upset with the prequels, still see it as Lucas made them originally - as the story of Luke, who was following in his father's steps, but eventually finds the strength to bring both of them back. I need to find where he said it and wrote it, but even Lucas has said that the prequels weren't his original ideas for them, because the first films were to be about the droids going through the galaxy and observing how things fell apart in the galaxy. Later he decided to make them about the fall of vader. Those who watch the OOT because they grew up with it, and yes, do see it as the "Holy Trilogy" have the right to do so - and when you fall in love with it that much, it is EASY to see that changes to it are as a slight to the film, and to how you remember it. Yes, people do get invested in it, but in the end, isn't that what we decided that movies are about? Yes, the filmmaker has the right to be able to change how he watches the film, but does he have the right to change our memories? To alter how we make memories of the exact same film? That's why I think people are super hyper mad - they want those same memories, and unlike being a child, they are able to have them again just by watching the same film. They invested themselves in it - in my opinion, that is what all good movies (or movies that someone percieves as good) can do. Otherwise, why bother watching a movie?

    No, people aren't as invested into the SE as the OOT, in most cases. Yes, we have been altered by flashy hollywood. No, the additions do not change the overall story (except for the intros to jabba and the Falcon). But they do not ellicit the same memories - and that, in my opinion, is the reason you watch a movie for the second time, for the 35th time, and for the 1000000th time. You love it, the feeling you get from it, and the memories that it brings back to you. For some, myself included, some of the additions distract me from that memory-evoking process. When its so long between those memories and the chance to bring them back, thats when people get mad, and blow up like Andy did.
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