Writers of the EU are very inconsistent with one another

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Jedi_Xen, Sep 26, 2001.

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  1. Jedi_Xen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 4
    Have you ever noticed that writers of the EU are very inconsistent. You have in one book the Empire establishes a base on Dagobah, they name the base Mount Yoda. Hello!!!! Nobody knew where Yoda was, Luke didn't reveal it until the Thrawn trilogy. Second of all there were only a handful of Super StarDestroyers, but now in the EU every Tom Dick and Harry had a Super Star Destroyer, oh no its Private Joe Bag of Donuts, the super military genious and his Super Star Destroyer he can single handedly be a threat to the New Republic, but as always the New Republic gets a lucky break somewhere and defeats the extremely evil Empire.

    Then you have the Dark Empire series, where in the devil did the Empire get that kind of fire power, in the year previous to it Thrawn was desperate for capital ships, hence why he wanted the fleet of Dreadnaughts lost for several decades, but now the Empire has a fleet of Eclipse and Soverign class Star Destroyers that make a SuperStarDestroyer look like a mouse next to an elephant. I wont even go into the TIE/D and the World Devestators.

    Fortunatly Zahn came back and brought some credibilty to the EU again. It was unforutantley it was short lived. Now we have the Vong, there has never been a poorer excuse for a villian. I have read little but I do understand about the only way to kill a Vong is to cut its head off???? Cut its head off what is this the Highlander? Then they kill Chewie, for no other reason than to kill him for Drama, thats not good, kill one of the Solo boys.

    And whats with these young Jedi brats anyway, you have Tenel Ka who "hates" her grandmother, Jacen and Anakin who practically hate eachother and nearly come to blows. Hate, what a wonderful Jedi trait, can anyone say "DARK SIDE OF THE FORCE".

    George Lucas no longer cares about the story line, Episode 1 is living testiment to that. All he sees now is dollar signs, its a shame that the EU and the opening prequel has tarnished a great story. Mr Lucas its time for you to resign and give control to someone who loves the well being of the galaxy not to let it be exposed to this rubbish. Save the Thrawn trilogy, the EU needs help, and needs it badly.
  2. Anakin SkySolo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 1999
    star 4
    Then you have the Dark Empire series, where in the devil did the Empire get that kind of fire power, in the year previous to it Thrawn was desperate for capital ships, hence why he wanted the fleet of Dreadnaughts lost for several decades, but now the Empire has a fleet of Eclipse and Soverign class Star Destroyers that make a SuperStarDestroyer look like a mouse next to an elephant.

    Why is this a problem? To me, it seems in keeping with Palpatine's character to hold back the capital ships that he's got in stock. He wanted to use those ships for his own return to power, which meant that he'd use them when he was ready--and not before.

    He used Thrawn to soften up the New Republic and ease his own comeback. The alternative might have been to position Thrawn so that he was in a strong position--possibly strong enough to challenge Palpatine, and certainly strong enough to demand a powerful position in the Imperium, something Palpy would be loathe to grant.
  3. Jedi_Xen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 4
    Indeed he would want those ships for his return, but the Soverign and Eclipse class Star Destroyer, they are a bit much aren't they. We are talking of an Empire severly lacking resources and wealth. Thrawn had loyalty, I am certain had he lived to see the Emperor's return he would have been loyal to Palpatine once more, that's the way Thrawn was. There were elements I did like of the DE, Luke turning to the dark side was a nice touch, the Emperor returning was also an intresting prospect, but over all it lacked the Star Wars feel.

    Han and Leia's trip to Nar Shadda, they fought like they did in the Empire Strikes Back, then you read the relationship they had during the Thrawn campaign it was quite contradictory. I just get tired of seeing the Empire having these SuperWeapons and every captain, admiral, and general are super intelligent, the greatest military mind in the entire galaxy. Thats what I hated about the EU, writers dont seem to read one anothers works and just come out with some BS of their own and call it a story.
  4. AdmiralZaarin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2001
    star 5
    George Lucas no longer cares about the story line, Episode 1 is living testiment to that. All he sees now is dollar signs, its a shame that the EU and the opening prequel has tarnished a great story.
    What?! TPM had an neat storyline! And if you don't like GL then...actually, I'd probably be spanked if I continued [face_devil]
  5. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 10
    There are no errors; there are only people who want to try to find faults in everything they can.
  6. Jedi_Xen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 4
    TPM had some good elements too it, but over all it does not tie in with the originals, the Clone Wars were supposed to be generations long though. Now they might last 5-6 years at best, that is way off. We originally had the impression Anakin was supposed to be around Lukes age in ANH when he first began his training. (The rule of only kids are trained as Jedi is new, read the Jedi Tales series.)
    The very element of the Clone Wars being shortened for what ever reason GL has in mind, hurts the story, that and the death of Darth Maul, he wasn't a major player in the galaxy, he killed one Jedi Master and was killed by an apprentice, how menacing is that???
  7. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 10
    Mual killed several other Jedi prior to TPM, most notably Darsha Assant and Anoon Bondara.
  8. Jedi_Xen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 4
    If you see no errors in this then you are either blind or mentally incompetent, and I havent read anything about Maul so I stand corrected on him killing one Jedi, still not as menacing as Vader.
  9. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 10
    If you see no errors in this then you are either blind or mentally incompetent

    No, there simply aren't any errors. If you find any, it's merely the result of your not doing sufficient research on the subject. Once you have read everything (or nearly everything) you will realize that there are no errors.
  10. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 10
    Have you ever noticed that writers of the EU are very inconsistent. You have in one book the Empire establishes a
    base on Dagobah, they name the base Mount Yoda. Hello!!!! Nobody knew where Yoda was, Luke didn't reveal it until
    the Thrawn trilogy.


    Who's to say that someone else didn't know where Dagobah was? Maybe Luke inadvertently told someone before he realized how much of a secret it should be.

    Second of all there were only a handful of Super StarDestroyers, but now in the EU every Tom Dick
    and Harry had a Super Star Destroyer, oh no its Private Joe Bag of Donuts, the super military genious and his Super
    Star Destroyer he can single handedly be a threat to the New Republic, but as always the New Republic gets a lucky
    break somewhere and defeats the extremely evil Empire.


    There were, at most, 15 Super Star Destroyers. Not very many at all.

    I assume you're referring to Zsinj and his SSD, Iron Fist. He didn't merely have a Super Star Destroyer; he had dozens, if not hundreds of support vessels for his fleet. And, at the time, he was the biggest threat to the New Republic as the other warlords were tearing themselves apart.

    Then you have the Dark Empire series, where in the devil did the Empire get that kind of fire power, in the year
    previous to it Thrawn was desperate for capital ships, hence why he wanted the fleet of Dreadnaughts lost for several
    decades, but now the Empire has a fleet of Eclipse and Soverign class Star Destroyers that make a SuperStarDestroyer
    look like a mouse next to an elephant. I wont even go into the TIE/D and the World Devestators.


    The Emperor held those ships in reserve so he could smash the Rebellion.

    Fortunatly Zahn came back and brought some credibilty to the EU again. It was unforutantley it was short lived. Now
    we have the Vong, there has never been a poorer excuse for a villian. I have read little but I do understand about the
    only way to kill a Vong is to cut its head off???? Cut its head off what is this the Highlander? Then they kill Chewie, for
    no other reason than to kill him for Drama, thats not good, kill one of the Solo boys.


    George Lucas gave the OK to kill off Chewbacca. It was not Salvatore's doing at all. The Vong are a very believable villain, and cutting their heads off is not the only way to kill them. It's just one of the more effective ways. :)

    And whats with these young Jedi brats anyway, you have Tenel Ka who "hates" her grandmother, Jacen and Anakin
    who practically hate eachother and nearly come to blows. Hate, what a wonderful Jedi trait, can anyone say "DARK
    SIDE OF THE FORCE".


    "Hate," "dislike" and "disagree" are three completely different things. Sure, Jacen and Anakin fight a lot, and Tenel Ka doesn't like her grandmother, but that does not in any way mean that they're slipping to the dark side.

    So, as you can see, there are no errors.
  11. Dev Sibwarra Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 4
    Most errors can be explained fairly easily. The rest can be explained with a long and complicated story involving damaged holocrons and alternate universes. ;)

    The EU is big. There are too many books, comics, games, and other sources for anyone to truly read and remember all of them. The fact that the authors have made so few continuity errors is amazing- it could easily be much, much worse.
  12. Jedi_Xen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 4
    Error #1: The Lusankya takes off from Coruscant, the Lusankya is way to big to take off from any planet, its a Superstar Destroyer for crying out loud, and there is no Star Destroyer that can land on a planet, they dont have the thrust to make it out of orbit and back to space, very few capital ships do. Maybe a Corellian Corvette or Medium Transport.

    Error #2:I dont remember the exact text, but on a mission to Honoghr a Noghri tells Leia that the ships crashed in something like in the fourty-eight year of your Emperor, Leia added the numbers up and said it happened during the clone wars, which adding everything up still took place before the TPM.

    Though these arent errors they are more than less oversights: What happened to Winter? Why does every body in the Empire have a Super Star Destroyer? how did Warlord Zsinj get two SSD? Where did the Palpatine clone get the resources to build the Soverign and Eclipse class Star Destroyers? Why is the NR so nieve to think once they hand over the Jedi the Vong will leave? If Hutts have no connection to the force (why Jedi cant use mind tricks on them) then how come there was a Hutt Jedi master? If Ikirt was a trance for centuries how did he survive with out food and water? Luke Skywalker was the only Jedi Master until they decided to have a council in the NR, then there were 12. Why is Luke the only one training Jedi? If others were there would be more than 100+, there would be closer to a thousand after 25 years, especially if they did it in an academy.

    The lack of imagination: Anakin Solo, Ben Skywalker, the death of Chewie, the Vong, Admiral Daala (same thing as Thrawn except with a female), the Empire superweapons.

    Get my point, whats not inconsistent the rest is bs.
  13. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 10
    Error #1: The Lusankya takes off from Coruscant, the Lusankya is way to big to take off from any planet, its a
    Superstar Destroyer for crying out loud, and there is no Star Destroyer that can land on a planet, they dont have the
    thrust to make it out of orbit and back to space, very few capital ships do. Maybe a Corellian Corvette or Medium
    Transport.


    This is not an error at all. The Krytos Trap explains exactly how the Lusankya took off from Coruscant.

    Error #2:I dont remember the exact text, but on a mission to Honoghr a Noghri tells Leia that the ships crashed in
    something like in the fourty-eight year of your Emperor, Leia added the numbers up and said it happened during the
    clone wars, which adding everything up still took place before the TPM.


    This isn't an error, either. Read the Noghri entry in the Essential Guide to Alien Species.

    Though these arent errors they are more than less oversights: What happened to Winter?

    She's happily married to Tycho. She isn't Leia's slave, after all.

    Why does every body in the
    Empire have a Super Star Destroyer?


    They don't. As I explained before, there were no more than 15 SSDs made.

    how did Warlord Zsinj get two SSD?

    He captured the Brawl (re-named Iron Fist) after Endor, then he stole another one from KDY. Simple.

    Where did the Palpatine clone get the
    resources to build the Soverign and Eclipse class Star Destroyers?


    Let's see, the resources of 100 billion stars, and millions of planets.

    Why is the NR so nieve to think once they hand over
    the Jedi the Vong will leave?


    Some people will believe anything. The NR citizens are scared; they want any solution that will end the Vongquest.

    If Hutts have no connection to the force (why Jedi cant use mind tricks on them) then
    how come there was a Hutt Jedi master?


    Hutts are Force-resistance; they're not immune.

    If Ikirt was a trance for centuries how did he survive with out food and
    water?


    Same way Han survived a year in carbonite; his metabolism was slowed so much that he didn't need any nourishment.

    Luke Skywalker was the only Jedi Master until they decided to have a council in the NR, then there were 12.
    Why is Luke the only one training Jedi? If others were there would be more than 100+, there would be closer to a
    thousand after 25 years, especially if they did it in an academy.


    Luke is not the only one training Jedi. Kam, Mara, Kyp, Corran, Streen, etc. are all traning other Jedi. Luke's academy has only been operating for about 15 years, so 100 Jedi in that time is good work.

    The lack of imagination: Anakin Solo, Ben Skywalker, the death of Chewie, the Vong, Admiral Daala (same thing as
    Thrawn except with a female), the Empire superweapons.


    Lack of imagination is not an error.
  14. Jedi_Xen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 4
    I can see Han living a year in carbonite, but for a couple of centuries, I dont see that. I can also see you are stubborn, I can prove a point to you beyond a shadow of a doubt and you still wont see it. At the time of Palaptines return he didnt have millions of planets at his disposal.

    And I never said the lack of imagination was an error, I said it was BS. Dont tell me the writers couldn't come up with a name other than Anakin Solo. And dont give me this long winded speach about Leia wanted to honor her father, I dont need it I read it and still saw it as beyond lame. It was a good jesture to see her forgive ol Vader but its still lame.

    Maybe the problem is all these books seem to target people in their early and mid teens, they dont have complicated plots. Just a great Evil always attacking the the unsuspecting Good. It can't always be a battle of good-vs-evil. Still alot of BS in them, and despite the fact no body wants to see the errors for writers being poor excuses of star wars fans. Thats why I am so stubborn about the Thrawn series, nothing in the Star Wars galaxy was better, not even the movies. It had complicated twists and turns, and should have set the standard for the writers to follow.

    And maybe just maybe I would like the Vong, if I wasn't so sick of the NR's opposition always being more powerful than them, even in the dying days of the Empire its seemed the opponent was always more powerful, cunning, and devious.

    Myself as well as several others I have spoken with, would love to see a new series of EU come out, one targeting people in their late teens and early 20s, with great complicated plots that the heroes have to outwit their way through and not just get lucky all the time (though lucky from time to time is good). Still as you remain stubborn about not seeing the BS and errors in the EU, I remain stubborn about the books only being good as toilet paper, because it already has so much crap on the pages it really doesnt matter anymore.
  15. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 10
    But I already proved to you that there are no errors, so why do you persist in calling the books inconsistent?
  16. Jedi_Xen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 4
    You have proven to me nothing. Its all backtrack when people realize the mistakes. I don't recall it being explained in RS book of how the Lusankya had been set up to be able to take off from planets. It had always been my knowledge capital ships were built in space.

    Or did they change that too so it would appear more devious to have the Lusankya take off from Coruscant. Could you imagine what the blast would have done to the surface to get that big ship into orbit, it would have incenerated a good chunk of the planet and killed millions if not billions.
  17. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 10
    TKT explains that the Lusankya was equipped with a lift cradle to get its bow pointed upwards. Then it fired its thrusters and took off. And yes, it did kill several million people int he process. Yes, the Lusankya was built in space, at Kuat, but it was somehow lowered onto Coruscant and buried there.

    Why do you say haven't I proven you anything? I have corrected all of the "errors" that you have posted here, so, therefore, you have no reason to complain.
  18. Anakin SkySolo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 1999
    star 4
    Or did they change that too so it would appear more devious to have the Lusankya take off from Coruscant. Could you imagine what the blast would have done to the surface to get that big ship into orbit, it would have incenerated a good chunk of the planet and killed millions if not billions.

    First of all, the Lusankya DID kill millions when it took off and devastated a wide stretch of Coruscant. The damage was quite extensive.

    Secondly, Star Wars ships aren't conventional rocket ships. They use a combination of repulsors (i.e., anti-gravity) and their thrusters to lift off planets. Recall the Falcon's initial takeoff from Tatooine. You didn't exactly see rockets blaring as it lifted off the ground. Those were repulsors. Only later did the ship's thrusters kick in.

    Hence, although the Lusankya's engines almost certainly would cause a great deal of damage, they would not cause nearly the same level damage one would expect from rocket engines working alone to lift a ship of that size off the planet.
  19. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    Have you even read more than one book of the NJO? Also this is fantasy, we were given an imagination so use it some time.
  20. Jedi_Xen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 4
    #1 I do have an imagination, I rewrote all of the EU save the Thrawn trilogy for my Roleplaying game, the players who read these books and what I have done praise my works, finding it better quality writing and much more fitting with the Star Wars Universe.

    #2 How can anybody read this and not see alot of things repeating itself (Daala/Thrawn) they were very similiar, different background stories, but much was the same with them.

    #3 The Solo children are now the main characters. Luke and the others now only seem to make cameo appearences.

    #4 Read the post about Leia's and Hans relationship. It was F***ed up, badly.

    http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=1741104&replies=5358

    #5 Even with using your imagination there should be some sort of believability with this. Eclipse class Star Destroyers are not.

  21. Matthew Trias Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 1999
    star 6
    Hmmm...alot of the things you mentioned are addressed in the various source books.For instance,the Dark Empire sourcebook says that the Emperor gathered many ships in the core.That's why Thrawn was short on capital ships.

    The Lusankya was fitted with a repulsor lift cradle according to the novel.That's how she was able to lift off from the planet and that's probaly how she was lowered into the planet.

    See?Those things were already explained by the authors.

    Now or common sense.

    Yes..people knew of Dagobah so it's logical that they knew where it was.Remember?Leia mentions it in TTT.Also..so?Luke has them name Mount Dagger Mount Yoda.He didn't have to tell them that Yoda lived on Dagobah nor did he have to tell anyone else but Ken who Yoda was.

  22. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    Another thing, you rewrote the EU in your own way. It sure does make a heck of alot more sense to the author when they write something. You may see the EU continuity as inconsistent, but have you ever tried to take a look at the stuff to explain the topics you consider to be 'errors' from your posts you haven't done much studying.
  23. Rotan Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 4, 2001
    star 1
    #1 I do have an imagination, I rewrote all of the EU save the Thrawn trilogy for my Roleplaying game, the players who read these books and what I have done praise my works, finding it better quality writing and much more fitting with the Star Wars Universe.
    Um, yeah. Okay...


    #2 How can anybody read this and not see alot of things repeating itself (Daala/Thrawn) they were very similiar, different background stories, but much was the same with them.
    The only similarity between the two is one is a military genius and the other is almost a military genius. What a coincidence, how a large Galactic Empire could foster TWO brilliant military minds(arguable for Daala). Their personalities are completly different, as are everything else.

    #3 The Solo children are now the main characters. Luke and the others now only seem to make cameo appearences.
    I don't understand why this is inconsistent...

    #4 Read the post about Leia's and Hans relationship. It was F***ed up, badly.

    http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=1741104&replies=5358
    Couples fight. It's natural. Where's the incosistency in this?

    #5 Even with using your imagination there should be some sort of believability with this. Eclipse class Star Destroyers are not.
    Eclipse class Star Destroyers are not believable, because...they're big? They're quite huge, yes, they take up resources, yes. Why is it not believable? The Emperor had the resources, the Emperor had the labor, the Emperor had the time, the Emperor had the minds.
  24. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    The SWU has no particular type of writing, it's campy, it's fake, it's star wars. So how can people 'prefer' your writing to other people's? That's ridiculous since we all have different types of writing stories. Sheesh...talk about anal when it comes to literature. No offense.
  25. Jarik Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 21, 2000
    star 4
    "If Hutts have no connection to the force (why Jedi cant use mind tricks on them) then how come there was a Hutt Jedi master?"

    Hutts aren't immune to the force. Jabba was just very strong-willed, strong-minded.

    And yes they are inconsistent, but not in any of the ways I saw you point out. Leia seems to be an on again off again Jedi. In HoT they try to pin on Luke that everything he was doing for the last 10 years was bad. I seem to remember him saving the whole galaxy at least 7 times in there and I always thought that that was good. What do I know? For the most part though it's good and I like it. Just use fixes for the inconsistencies.
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