Writers of the EU are very inconsistent with one another

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Jedi_Xen, Sep 26, 2001.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Sturm Antilles Former Manager

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 6
    Wow, someone who doesn't like Dark Empire and TPM. I never would've guessed that someone could POSSIBLY hate these. Hey, where am I? I must be dreaming, right? I thought that everyone LOVED these comics and movies? No? What do you mean no? I'm not dreaming? Bah...

    <<#1 I do have an imagination, I rewrote all of the EU save the Thrawn trilogy for my Roleplaying game, the players who read these books and what I have done praise my works, finding it better quality writing and much more fitting with the Star Wars Universe.
    >>

    Good for you. Hey, since you hate TPM so much too...why not rewrite that? that's exactly what the bashers are doing in the Basher's Sanctuary. I'm sure that their piece of work will surely be as good as yours, and completely blow away the multi-leveled saga that George Lucas has crafted from his own imagaintion. I mean, he just can't do anything right anymore, can he? It's all about the $$$, isn't it. And surely if it's about the $$$, then it must suck huh? Yeah, George is greedy. What's that? You say you still buy these books and RPG products? For enjoyement? But I thought that $$$ = crap? No? Bah...

    <<#3 The Solo children are now the main characters. Luke and the others now only seem to make cameo appearences.
    >>

    So what's your point? We have 3 films and about 12 novels focusing on the Heroes of Yavin, not to mention a ****load of comics and other stories.

    <<#5 Even with using your imagination there should be some sort of believability with this. Eclipse class Star Destroyers are not.
    >>

    [Dr. Evil voice] Riiiggghhht...[/Dr. Evil voice]

    <<Hutts aren't immune to the force. Jabba was just very strong-willed, strong-minded. >>

    It's all Hutts. In D6 role-playing game terms, Hutts get a bonus to deflect any Jedi mind tricks. They're naturally strong-willed when it comes to their minds.

    Jedi_Xen, here's an idea...

    You see that seat you're sitting on? Take some plyers, stick them up your rear, and take out that giant bug that's in your ***. Okeday? :D
  2. Gandalf the Grey Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2000
    star 6
    EU Writers are inconsistant and unrealistic? OMG! Break out the Death Stars and the Ewoks... we have rid the world of these fiends for what they've done!
  3. IronParrot Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 1999
    star 5
    EU can be forced into a "consistent" mold with much string-pulling and "fixing" by any fan who wishes to do so. Big deal... people do that with Star Trek. People do that with Shakespeare. People do that with the Bible.

    Ah, the obsession with this concept of "continuity" that, for better or for worse, serves as the entire foundation of the Expanded Universe. It amuses me.

    "Also this is fantasy, we were given an imagination so use it some time."

    Contextually ironic quote of the day.
  4. AdmiralZaarin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2001
    star 5
    You're (refering to Jedi Xen) a bit like a GFFA Mormon. Rewriting something that wasn't mean to be changed because you can't see the point of the original.
    *sigh*
    Btw, TPM is the best of the canon. Ties with ROTJ.
    Back to continuity;
    On the subject of the Lusankya rising from Coruscant and burying it...
    Well, Palpy installed a huge bed of repulsorlifts a month or two before Endor, and he had it buried. When Iceheart decided she could use her little prison as a starship that could wipe out any other ship in the galaxy, she hit the repulsors and up she zoomed, killing millions in the process. Also wiped out a large chunk of Coruscant.
  5. Jedi_Xen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 4
    Maybe I should have had the subject problems with the EU, even when I say specifically of other problems besides inconsistancies, people are still to ****** dumb to realize what Im getting at. I take partial credit for not calling it problems with the EU.

    I do get that Hutts arent force sensative from the WEG books, it says Hutts have no connection to the Force.

    Though nobody else has said anything, there are many people who see problems, the whole thing about Mount Yoda on Dagobah, I only have the problem with the Empire naming it Mount Yoda, before Luke revealed where it was, thats my problem.

    ((The SWU has no particular type of writing, it's campy, it's fake, it's star wars. So how can people 'prefer' your writing to other people's? That's ridiculous since we all have different types of writing stories))
    This has to be the dumbest thing said against my argument, how can people prefer my writing to others, how can people prefer pepsi over coke, its a matter of taste, everyone here has been arguing with me that they like the EU or dont agree with the errors, they have a taste that likes it, I respect that, I have a taste that strongly dislikes much of the EU, only certain things found in the EU do I like, nothing from the NJO I cant even read a single book its too terrible, and no I havent read every book i read most of them, I simply dont have the time to read them all and alot of them when I try to read it I get disgusted with the story line.

    My argument of Daala and Thrawn was about the miltary smarts as much as the fact both were discriminated against by the Emperor, Thrawn for being an alien Daala for being a woman. Its like the writer of Daala, the whole Jedi Academy thing stank anyway, the Empire should have died after Thrawn or possibly even after DE, other than a few things it wasnt that bad. Ive always wondered what happened to every one of those large ships the Emperor had for this series, I know not all of them was destroyed, but they were never heard from again, unless I missed something.

    Oh well, at least the infinities series seems to be cool, I wonder if Luke will join Vader on Bespin, it would be cool to see them two whack the Emperor.
  6. Sturm Antilles Former Manager

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 6
    <<I do get that Hutts arent force sensative from the WEG books, it says Hutts have no connection to the Force. >>

    All beings are connected to the Force, including Hutts.

    From Galaxy Guide 4 : Alien Races, pg 53, under "Hutts"...

    Force Resistence : Hutts have an innate defense against Force-based mind manipulation and techniques and roll double their Perception dice to resist such attacks. However, because of this, Hutts are not believed to be able to learn Force skills.

    Never says they can't.

    <<Though nobody else has said anything, there are many people who see problems, the whole thing about Mount Yoda on Dagobah, I only have the problem with the Empire naming it Mount Yoda, before Luke revealed where it was, thats my problem. >>

    Didn't someone mention it was named Mount Dagger or something? Well anyway, I don't recall the Empire naming it Mount Yoda. That's a very minor "error", believe me.
  7. PrinceXizor Former TF.N Foreign Book Cover Staff

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 2001
    star 5
    "Ive always wondered what happened to every one of those large ships the Emperor had for this series, I know not all of them was destroyed, but they were never heard from again, unless I missed something."

    Yes you missed something : the whole ******* fleet was gathered around Byss when the Eclipse II collided with the Galaxy Gun, and the projectile that should normally have been sent on the Rebels hit the planet and destroyed it. All of it. What remained where a few thousand - if not less - starships scattered around the Galaxy. But the Imperial military might really died with Byss.
  8. Arabwel Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2001
    star 2
    Oookay... this is interesting. You people are all over each other on this one...

    In my opinion, if something doesn't match, due to the fact I have so little resources, I go with the better author. (i.e. If KJA says this and Mike Stackpole that, I go with Mike)
    And from what I've gathered, everything seems to be explained at some point in some way. That's what they are doing in the Lucas Empire. They produce stuff. And when they see something going awry, they do some sort of twist to fix it.

    Thank the PTB for them not using Time Travel... Right?

    And my take on Lusankya... Didn't the Embperor use the Force to make people to not to notice the ship being inserted to Coruscant?

    BTW, what is this Infinities thing? Some kind of official AU?

    Ara
    (Isard-wannabe of the worst kind; at least I'm crazy and bitchy enough:)
  9. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    Actually is KJA is the senior writer chronologically. Anything mike says would be conflicting with the original source of KJA.
  10. Arabwel Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2001
    star 2
    See the words "Better Author". I dislike KJA extremely. Sure, he may be senior, but I'd say he's senile.

    Ara
    (Yes, you guessed. Isard wannabe with sniffles)
  11. ReaperFett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
    I listen to KJA, as he is, as such, the EU Gatekeeper
  12. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    I rewrote all of the EU save the Thrawn trilogy for my Roleplaying game, the players who read these books and what I have done praise my works, finding it better quality writing and much more fitting with the Star Wars Universe.


    The SWU has no particular type of writing, it's campy, it's fake, it's star wars. So how can people 'prefer' your writing to other people's? That's ridiculous since we all have different types of writing stories



    You missed the point of what I said, the point was that Star Wars has no particular quality of writing or 'fitting' form of writing. It's a campy story that some guy made 'for the people'. I bet you also believe that EU isn't canon too don't ya.
  13. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    Ohh and Admiral Daala was a hot-head, and she never claimed to be a great commander, Thrawn did though.
  14. barnsthefatjedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2001
    star 5
    'Writers of the EU are very inconsistent with one another'

    Indeed, they often are. The aspect of this which especially irritates me, particularly in the Bantam novels, is how authors don't use other people's characters. Characters like Kyp Durron and Talon Karrde, along with a host of others, who were obviously designed to be big players in the GFFA were practically ignored for a long time.

    Thankfully, the NJO seems to be fixing this and continuity is much better. Well done to Del Rey for that! :)
  15. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Jedi_Xen...

    Putting aside the fact that you're most likely a sock and that this is nothing more than an attempt to disguise a long-winded troll under the guise of criticism, there are a number of problems with your points...

    1. Hypocrisy - the largest problem is you resort to the standard popular bias in attacking things, yet completely ignore it in your pet like. As an example...
    "Fortunatly Zahn came back and brought some credibilty to the EU again." Whether one likes or dislikes Zahn as a writer, he has engaged in the most glaring examples of the "inconsistencies" you've pointed out: Inconsistent writing, continuity problems, reliance on "superweapons," "lucky breaks," etc.

    2. Ignorance - Almost is bad is that your comments are based on incorrect information. That is, most of what you say is in error...
    "Nobody knew where Yoda was"
    If that's the case, much of Luke's scenes in ESB would not exist. People knew where Yoda was.

    "Second of all there were only a handful of Super StarDestroyers, but now in the EU every Tom Dick and Harry had a Super Star Destroyer, oh no its Private Joe Bag of Donuts, the super military genious and his Super Star Destroyer"
    The quantity of Super Star Destroyers has generally been established and accounted for. Not every Tom, Dick and Harry had one. From ANH to around ROTJ, the Empire produced more than a handful of them and we have heard most of the stories accounting for them.
    "Then you have the Dark Empire series, where in the devil did the Empire get that kind of fire power, in the year previous to it Thrawn was desperate for capital ships..."
    This has been accounted for. The resources were always available when Thrawn was around, but the Emperor chose not to give them to this warlord or any of the others. He saved them for when he would announce his return.
    And of course, probably one of the second most ignorant statements made in the history of the Lit. Forum (and we have to note, there's been a lot of them) - second only to one you make later on....
    "I have read little but I do understand about the only way to kill a Vong is to cut its head off???? Cut its head off what is this the Highlander?"
    This is not based on anything other than your own insanity, it seems.

    "Then they kill Chewie, for no other reason than to kill him for Drama, thats not good, kill one of the Solo boys."
    No, there were indeed other reasons to killing Chewy besides "for Droma." But, getting to one of the most ignorant statements to ever grace our computer screens...

    "George Lucas no longer cares about the story line, Episode 1 is living testiment to that. All he sees now is dollar signs"

    Simply, you have no idea what George Lucas cares about and/or sees.

    In conclusion: your theories are the worst kind of popular tripe, your methods are sloppy, and your conclusions are highly suspect.

    However, despite all of that, I will credit you with having one solid point:
    The writers of the EU are very inconsistent with one another.

    I doubt anyone will disagree with you there.
  16. Jedi_Xen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 4
    It seems to me all of you EDIT are so stuck on yourselfs its not funny. The fact I rewrote things to fit what I like worries you, I wonder why. Am I that much of a threat to you? Do you worry that I'll post my stories to the internet and more people on the net will like them as opposed to the garbage of the EU now? Ive discussed things in many different chats before, and you EDIT are about the rudest EDIT in existance. You look at yourselves and the EU writers and think you walk on water, well just besure not to trip over a damn wave, after all the splash will bring you back to reality alone.

    I don't know why I bother the oldest one here is what 14?15? kids in other words,go do your homework, mmkay. The only reason I started this was to state my opinions, some of the things I saw was corrected, I still see the Lusankya taking off from Coruscant about as one of the biggest loads of crock, but at least its explained, the Soverign and Eclipse class Star Destroyers are typical EU writing, lets give the Empire the largest ships possible, one Soverign class wouldnt have been bad for the Empire to have, Palpatines flag ship, once again those two classes of Star Destroyers are a load of crock, very distasteful, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

    When I referred to Han and Leia's relationship I wasnt referring to the pettite squabbling the writers keep putting in from time (remembering ESB), I was referring to how Han has become in youre precious NJO, he has all but forsaken Leia.

    Now I'm willing to take some criticism, but some of the EDIT I read on here, you people have a very communist out look on things, if you want communism go to China, nobody crowned you Emperor of America, and if they did my first official duty is to tell you to EDIT off,my second would be to assassinate your pathetic ass. Here in the USA we have this thing called freedom of choice, and I choose not to like the EU and for many reasons, mostly the crock that its full of.

    Now with that I will say get over yourself, the bestway to do is to open your eyes and realize EDIT. This isnt referring to the people of the EU who can calmly look at the fact some dont like it and for reasons such as I have given, though some have been explained as I have said.

    I know Im not the only one who thinks this the EU is aweful (read some of the Young Jedi Knights and Jedi Academy books).
  17. ReaperFett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
    he's resorting to swearing. That means he is losing :)
  18. Jedi_Xen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 4
    Actually thats not swearing, spend three years in the military, you will learn what swearing is then buddy.
  19. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    Xen, calm down.

    Yes, there are many teens here. There are also adults. You posted your opinions, they posted theirs. From my point of view you've been far more offensive about it. There have been good points made on both sides, as well as not-so-good points. Several of yours were erroneous -- cutting off a Vong's head, for example -- people were trying to correct you and show you why these things you pointed out weren't mistakes or inconsistent with the EU as a whole. You didn't like it, so you resorted to name calling.

    Also, I think you're confusing inconsistency with unbelievability.

    The Bantam books were the most inconsistent, because, since they were written out of order and the authors all had their own ideas about things, for example, the Force, Luke would vary wildly in his Force power and mastership thereof from book to book. That is inconsistency.

    What you are doing is pointing out a lot of would-be errors and points that drew you out of your suspension of disbelief. Yes, there have been errors, and that's what a lot of these discussions are based on. But you must also bear in mind that these are fiction -- namely, science- and fantastical-fiction.

    It's perfectly legit to have your own opinion, even if it's different from the majority opinion -- Ghengis here can attest to that. But when you start name-calling, insulting and in any other way putting down in an offensive manner other people who are also just presenting their opinions, it makes it very unenjoyable to be here.

    And with regards to language -- this is a family board.

    EDIT -- Now for the point by point:

    It seems to me all of you EDIT are so stuck on yourselfs its not funny. The fact I rewrote things to fit what I like worries you, I wonder why. Am I that much of a threat to you? Do you worry that I'll post my stories to the internet and more people on the net will like them as opposed to the garbage of the EU now?

    Ummm...it doesn't particularly worry us that you rewrote any EU, nor are we worried that people will like it more than what's published. The fact is that if you've been rewriting for gaming purposes, then this should either be on the Fan Fiction or RPG board. This place is for discussion of the Literature.

    Ive discussed things in many different chats before, and you EDIT are about the rudest EDIT in existance. You look at yourselves and the EU writers and think you walk on water, well just besure not to trip over a damn wave, after all the splash will bring you back to reality alone.

    Well, now that you've cursed us several times and insulted our tastes and our intelligence, I'll cede that we're very rude people. In fact, there are many arguments on these boards about the validity of aspects of the EU or the EU as a whole. There are many authors and works that are criticized or bashed. The reason this works is that even though we all have differing opinions, we try to maintain a modicum of respect.

    I don't know why I bother the oldest one here is what 14?15? kids in other words,go do your homework, mmkay.

    If this is your attitude, I don't know why you bother either. As to age ranges, I've already addressed that above.

    The only reason I started this was to state my opinions, some of the things I saw was corrected, I still see the Lusankya taking off from Coruscant about as one of the biggest loads of crock, but at least its explained, the Soverign and Eclipse class Star Destroyers are typical EU writing, lets give the Empire the largest ships possible, one Soverign class wouldnt have been bad for the Empire to have, Palpatines flag ship, once again those two classes of Star Destroyers are a load of crock, very distasteful, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

    Fine. If you find it distasteful or unbelievable, that's fine. But if you'll watch the movies, you'll find that what the Empire does is build the largest ships possible.

    When I referred to Han and Leia's relationship I wasnt refer
  20. Jedi_Xen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 4
    You're right Masatage, matter of fact I sent an apology thing in yesterday for my quick anger, its not there, damn windows, from time to time it does that to me. I don't see that I started it.
    ((There are no errors; there are only people who want to try to find faults in everything they can.))
    This is the comment that got me going, it showed to me this individual can't/won't see anything wrong, if I were smart before I responded I would have read some of his other comments and realized it wasn't worth the effort, but it was too late for that by the time I did read things.

    The one I dont get is how everyone can defend the Empire having Mount Yoda on Dagobah (Triclops was the main character in this book, don't remember the name though) and it took place before Thrawn and the Emperor clone.

    The closest I came to real name calling was if you can't see any errors your blind or mentally incompetent, thats not real name calling. Then I read this comment.
    ((You're (refering to Jedi Xen) a bit like a GFFA Mormon. Rewriting something that wasn't mean to be changed because you can't see the point of the original.))

    This is when I grew the angriest, people didn't seem to read everything and just totally spoke out and against the person, not the topic. Did I get angry yes, it seemed to me instead of people discussing the topic it became personal. The fact is the EU is the worst part of SW, and truth be known, its not completly cannon, LucasArts states all the time only what you see in the movies is cannon. Though LucasArts hasn't explained why since 1977 the Clone Wars went from being generations long to being maybe a decade at best, kinda odd isn't it?

    So I will say I have been wrong about some of the things I said, but that doesn't change the way I feel about the EU. It needs help, maybe a movie based in this timeframe would do that, and hopefully Ron Howard or Steven Spielberg will direct it, that would be awesome. Id be more intrested in it then.
  21. PrinceXizor Former TF.N Foreign Book Cover Staff

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 2001
    star 5
    What we'd like you to say is : 'I don't like the EU, I think it's crap. But if you like it, very well !' and NOT 'EU IS crap and you're all a bunch of morons if you like it.' It's just about being kind with others likings. People today have a lot of problems remembering what 'tolerance' is.

    And about this movie thing : a movie with the same ideas as in the current EU, or with totally new ones ?
  22. Jedi_Xen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 4
    At first lets use the ones weve got now, then if that sucks, lets go with new ones.
  23. PrinceXizor Former TF.N Foreign Book Cover Staff

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 2001
    star 5
    Hum... Then it's reading that bothers you, not the ideas ?
  24. Jedi_Xen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 4
    No, not at all. Perhaps if I see the stuff on silver screen it would make more sense. Im very anti-vong any way, and find the NR's discust with the Jedi stupid.

    Borsk Fey'lya and the senate know damn well what Luke did in the Galactic Civl War, and the Jedi Legends can't be argued. And if the NR destroys all the Jedi what seperates them from the Empire, the Empire destroyed the protectors of peace and justice too.
    The top NR officials know this, and Fey'lya is in no position to judge others, remember the Caamas document. It was his people that destroyed Caamas, so he has no right to sentence one group of people to death for the actions of a few.
  25. Dev Sibwarra Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 4
    *Scrolls past flames, counterflames, apologies for flames, apologies for counterflames, and random comments on unrelated political systems*

    I know Im not the only one who thinks this the EU is aweful (read some of the Young Jedi Knights and Jedi Academy books).


    If by 'aweful' you mean that it has qualities which inspire awe, then yes, the EU is quite aweful. :)

    Your 're-write' was done by you alone, and was probably nowhere near the length of the EU. Try doing it with dozens of authors submitting manuscripts before previous work has seen print, while relying on hundreds of pages of previous work, and you'll see why there are a few inconsistencies.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.