Writing advice from one Mr. Orson Scott Card :: Now Discussing- Stories with Soul

I name chapters if something is really made of fairly stand-alone viggies. Otherwise, I don't think they really need them with the way I write stories.

Usually, I just split by flow. On Signs of Life, my usual goal is to have a shift in POV halfway through a chapter without a timejump. I think I do end up with shorter chapters first; a viggie series I'm doing for the Qui-Gon romance challenge has a fourth segment the length of the previous 3 segments combined.

 

I'm really enjoying this thread, I've been trying to read different books on writing.

Great idea Ish, to have shorter length chapters at first. I really like that suggestion as you're trying to gain a reader's attention.

When I'm looking at the suggestions for good opening lines, I've noticed they all have motion and things happening in the present (the ones that really catch my eye)

Great idea solojones

 

Idrelle: Since you're good at coming up with titles and apparently the rest of us suck at it, do you have any advice?

I went and searched OSC's site to try and find an article on it, but no luck.

Once upon a time, a *very* long time ago, I read an article in "Writer's Digest" that suggested little title templates you could use.

Like there's: [noun], or maybe [proper noun], as in "Rashoman" ("Rain") or "Yojimbo."

There's also [article, noun]: "The Mission"

There's [article, adjective, noun]: "A New Hope"

Or just plain [adjective, noun] "Funny Girl"

Then the article went on to explain that interesting titles have a kind of twist to them, to make people curious. My mother used to have a book called something like "The Depths of Victory," which sounded kind of intriguing. (Not enough for me to read it, but still.) There's also "Dead Man Walking" (creepy!) and "Cold Sassy Tree" (what the . . ?)

All of this is excellent advice, and yet most of my titles are still crap. Any ideas?

 

I generally divide chapters where it seems natural. A shocking revelation, or a cliffhanger, or just a note that really sums up the tone of the preceding post is usually where I cut. I have only numbered or named chapters once, in Wanderer of Ages. It was kind of fun and I plan on doing it again, but not all the time. As for beginning lines? My posted fics? starts are pretty unremarkable but here are a few from upcoming projects:

The shadow worked with blood like any other artist might use paints. (murder mystery)

Death. (purge fic)

Fire is clean.

And then, another story I?m working out right now starts right off with the eulogy of the main character. They?re all pretty grim, but that gets the attention of a reader and lets them know that there will indeed be something exciting happening after all the exposition.

 

ophelia: Here's my advice for the chapter titles I go insane over -- "anything goes."

This is seriously what I do: I scan through my chapter and think of potential names for the chapter. Sometimes it's the mere name of a character, or of a place. Sometimes it's a quote from the chapter, or something vague that reflects the emotions or actions that the characters have/do in that particular chapter. Or it's the name of a certain object.

Happy? Or was I too vague?

Here's an example of chapters from a fanfic I wrote a long time ago. Never mind what it was about - it has the worst case of Mary Sue-ism ever.

Chapter One: Luke and Leia -- characters
Chapter Two: The Valor -- this was the name of a ship
Chapter Three: Dreams, Visions and Memories-- Vague description of what happens in the chapter
Chapter Four: Danger -- another vague description
Chapter Five: Cassandra -- a character is introduced
Chapter Six: Cassandra's Story -- the new character's story is told
Chapter Seven: Leaving Umpinor -- name of a planet
Chapter Eight: Ben Kenobi's Hut -- a place!
Chapter Nine: Jabba the Hutt and his Palace -- another place! (my goodness, what's with all these places?)
Chapter Ten: The Pit of Carkoon - another place!
Chapter Eleven: A Distraught Han -- the emotions of a certain character
Chapter Twelve: The Star of Kalastray -- an object
Chapter Thirteen: Return to the Alliance -- an event!
Chapter Fourteen: The Emperor's Hands-- the titles of two characters
Chapter Fifteen: Gungan Incident One-- an event
Chapter Sixteen: Yoda and Leia -- names of characters
Chapter Seventeen: Rescue Mission-- another event
Chapter Eighteen: The Alliance Assembly-- another event
Chapter Nineteen: The Imperial Shuttle-- a ship
Chapter Twenty: Endor-- a place
Chapter Twenty-one: The Ewok Village -- another place
Chapter Twenty-two: The Players Move-extremely vague description of the events that take place in the chapter
Chapter Twenty-three: The Battle of Endor -- says exactly what's going to happen
Chapter Twenty-four: The Final Duel -- a very important, large event
Chapter Twenty-five: The Pit of Doom-- a vague description of events
Chapter Twenty-six: Victory,and yet no Victory-- an abomination of a chapter title.

Yeah, that was back in the day. No more. Now, for fan fiction, I divide it into parts. I save my love for chapter names for original fiction.

 

Well, that ballooned into a nice discussion about chapters/titles I'm glad people here like reading Mr. Card's advice. I sure do.

New Topic!
Writting Stories with Soul


-sj loves kevin spacey

 

Very interesting topic. After finally getting around to reading Ender's Game a few months ago, I discovered just why he is such an acclaimed author...

And stories with soul. Interesting topic- I'll have to read through that article and see.

 

Oh, hooray! I had forgotten about this thread and that's unfortunate, because Mr. Card really does have some great (and free!) advice.

I think that fanfic stories can often actually have more soul that a lot of the certified EU. It seems to me that FF authors care more about the series and about their characters. I think it's a testament to that that we're not getting paid for this in the first place.

The problem I have, and others might have, is delineating what you as an author feel about the story and what is actually being conveyed to the readers. Because personally, I am really passionate about my work. But I know I've had problems getting that passion to ressonate with readers sometimes. I find that using those feelings to infuse the stories with that kind of 'soul' that is almost tangible is really hard.

Any ideas?


-sj loves kevin spacey

 

Maybe he or she only had a few stories they deeply cared about and believed in, and they've already told those stories. Or maybe it's because they're trying to "write well" and by following someone else's rules it's killing their stories.

He hit the nail on the head for me there.

I've never really actively like my stories. I don't think I'm a good writer; I just write because I need to to keep from bouncing off the walls. There are times, though, when I think maybe I should give a bit more into what I'm doing. If you're doing something, might as well do it well, right? When that type of thinking pops into my mind, I start looking at techniques and altering how I write, which I don't think is the way to do it but I do. I know some of my stories have faltered because of that.

I think the soul of the story comes from both the reader and the writer. You have to love the story with your entire heart to be able to sit still and read every word. The same should be said of the author. Someone is taking the time to read the stories and so maybe they should work for that. Its a mixed reaction of love between both parties.

I also think FF writers have a lot for more soul and passion for what we write. I may not like my stories, but I love my characters, and I know a lot of people stick around FOR their characters. If they don't justify their actions, who will?

Personally I have a problem conveying emotions. Actions, sure. Me and emotions don't always get along. That makes it hard for a reader to get soul out of a story. For authors, thats what we should strive for.

And as for titles, I suck. Let me run through some titles for my chapters from a fic a long, long time ago:

Chapter One- There Are Always Doubts
Chapter Two- Not Always As It Seems
Chapter Three - Collisons
Chapter Four - Today's the Strike of a Match
Chapter Five - Respect the Game
Chapter Six- This Lack of Self-Control I Fear is Never Ending
Chapter Seven - Would You Like to Lose Control?
Chapter Eight - Been Dazed and Confused for Too Long
Chapter Nine -Flashback (part one)
Chapter Ten - Revalation
Chapter Eleven- Every Man is Born in Sin
Chapter Twelve- Conflict
Chapter Thirteen- Flashback (part two)

C'mon. Flashback? Man, I was dumb.

-Krystal

 

But the most important thing is always the honest outpouring of what you truly believe in and care about, using all your skills to make it as clear and accessible to the widest possible audience you can reach without violating the truth of the tale.

Thats why I try to start out with a set "thesis" in my stories, I have trouble just writing unless I'm not trying to say something, or showcase something. Sometimes it works, such as with some of the Star Wars fanfic I've written in the past few weeks, sometimes it fails horribly, an original fantasy which was basically inspired by too much Neil Gaiman (the man still is one of my idols).

To be honest a story have soul, I think think its best to write stories original or fanfic that you'd like to read. I'm still kind of looking for inspiration for when I write something that really does matter...

 

Yay, a new topic. ::Runs to read.::

 

Just read the topic (and the thread, thank goodness it's a short one so far!), and I think I'm going to have to digest the article a bit more. Right off the bat I do agree with something he said, "Sometimes when a story fails to have a soul, it's because the writer has become jaded with his own stories. Maybe he or she only had a few stories they deeply cared about and believed in, and they've already told those stories."

I've read a few stories/novels that have been this way. The most recent Earth's Children novel by Jean Auel struck me this way. Mrs. Auel has said more than once she has a seven book series, but the last book #6 was very ho-hum. By the time I finished it I was left wondering where the climax was, what the great revelation was, what was truly left to tell in Ayla's story. It's almost like Mrs. Auel is determined to reach the end of book 7 but there's nothing left to discover in Ayla's life journey. At least that's how it comes across to this reader.

Some fanfics strike me the same way. There's a deffinate formula that I've seen in a different fandom. Injure the main character, have the supporting characters turn thier backs on the main character, main character runs away (while severely injured), supporting characters realize they've been fools and how much danger the main character is in causing much angst and gnashing of teeth, supporting characters reunite with main character just in the nick of time to save him and comfort him and prove how much they love him.

After the fourth story like this it gets old and seems so formulaic that there's little to no surprise left and because of that the characters' story no longer resonates. Now, there's little doubt that fanfic writers are passionate about what they write, but the challenge seems to come in, in making sure that the story you're telling is fresh, not a rehash of a story you've already told.

What's the best way to make sure you don't fall into that trap?

 

I love OSC, as I was telling Ish yesterday, I have more Card books than any other author on my bookshelf. (Although, some of his short stoies in Maps in a Mirror *shivers* I wish I could forget them.) As well, I have met him (he only signed two of my books and then it was the next person's turn, but still!). I wish he would come back for LTUE this year!

As for Titles, I am pretty bad, as well as chapter titles. However, if you want some great chapter titles--Patricia Wrede. Of course, her sort of chapter titles only work with certain types of stories- but still, they're great! Ex: In Which Cimorene Refuses to be Proper and Has a Conversation With a Frog

If you want deceptive beginnings, try the first paragraph of Moby Dick slightly morbid and wordy, but I did actually find it interesting: "Whenever I find myself growing grim about the mouth; whenever it is a damp, drizzly November in my soul; whenever I find myself involuntarily pausing before coffin warehouses, and bringing up the rear of every funeral I meet; and especially whenever my hypos get such an upper hand of me, that it requires a strong moral principle to prevent me from deliberately stepping into the street, and methodically knocking people's hats off - then, I account it high time to get to sea as soon as I can."
Methodically knocking people's hats off? I laughed at that image.
Don't let it fool you though. MOST. BORING. BOOK. EVER.

I love OSC's Writing Science Fiction and Fantasy it has such wonderful advice. I wish some of the reviewers of ROTS that I have seen would read his bit talking about Vader--bah, tooo long to explain now, but some reviews annoyed me because the reviewer just didn't get it.

Holy Bananas!
OSC will be in Salt Lake tonight at Borders Books.

From his website:
Salt Lake City, UT
Tuesday, 16 August - 7:00 p.m.
Borders Books
Crossroads Mall
50 S. Main Street
Salt Lake City, UT

When my mother emailed me earlier this year and told me OSC would be teaching at SVU (Southern Virginia University-just a few hours from home) I almost regreted not going there (you would not believe how much mail I got from them during my senior year in high school).

But OSC's writing advice is fantastic. Even if I don't totally agree with everything he says, it gets me more focused on problems in my writing.