X-Men: First Class (spoilers)

Discussion in 'Archive: SF&F: Films and Television' started by The2ndQuest, Dec 17, 2009.

  1. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    It has to be a different Emma, and Alex has to either be a really older brother, a cousin or Scott's father now.


    Another thing I gotta wonder- how can Xavier stay hidden? They have his name, presumably, from when he first spoke to the CIA and worked for them. So, they'd be bale to locate his estate, know where he went to school, etc.
  2. Yodaminch Chosen One

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    Mar 6, 2002
    star 6
    There's really no way around it. First Class can not be considered in the same continuity as the other films. I don't care how much they insist it is. It contradicts all 4 previous movies several times. Call it a reboot and move forward.

    Just a few examples of continuity broken just in the first film:

    "When I was 17 I met a young man named Eric Lensherr."

    Yeah, not in this film he didn't. He meets him in his mid twenties or early thirties depending on whatever age he is supposed to be. No reason for Stewart's Xavier to lie. But this just makes no sense when you watch X-Men and try to keep First class in that canon.

    "Why don't you just use it to find Magneto?"
    "I've been trying, but he's found some way to shield himself from it."
    "How would he know how to do that?"
    "Because he helped me build it."

    Oh so many issues here. Reading that exchange, Xavier is saying Magneto's ability to block him is new. Well, First Class makes it clear it is not. Shaw has the helmet made for him. And Erik takes the helmet and uses it against Xavier. So Professor X should know exactly how he can block him.

    Now for the biggest, unexcusable head desk moment: Hank built Cerebro. Ok, on its own, this would NOT have been terrible. If they had started with Hank's prototype (and not had the thing work as well) and then have Xavier and Erik build a better one, I could accept this. But that can never happen. The movie ends with the two already on different sides. They never had a chance to build cerebro. The basement was not even developed. It's just a bomb shelter at the moment.

    Erik. What are you doing here?
    Why do you ask questions to which you already know the answers?
    Don't give up on them, Erik. -
    What would you have me do, Charles? I've heard these arguments before.
    It was a long time ago. Mankind has evolved since then.
    Yes... into us. Are you sneaking around in here, Charles? Whatever are you looking for?
    I'm looking for hope.
    I will bring you hope, old friend. And I ask only one thing in return. Don't get in my way. We are the future, Charles, not them! They no longer matter.


    This exchange also makes less sense after First Class. Or rather, if they make a sequel to First Class, they are really in a danger zone. This exchange makes it seem as though the two had a falling out, went their separate ways and haven't seen each other in some time. They are also cordial with each other. We shouldn't be seeing them at war with each other. We should perhaps see them butt heads. But really, any full scale battle should result in a much less cordial reunion like the two had at the beginning of X-Men.


    And of course, there's more you guys have already cited: the two Emma's with diamond skin power, the fact that Havok (according to Singer) is NOT Cyclops' brother. The cameo from Beast in X2, the entire scenes with young Xavier and Magneto in both Last Stand and Wolverine where Xavier is bald and walking in both.
  3. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    :oops: That's worse than I thought.

    To be fair, there's still a chance that Xavier and Erik are able to reconcile in any FC sequels to put them where they are in the flashbacks/backstory.

    But, I had forgotten all about the newness of the helmet-block. Shame, because I thought that was a clever element otherwise.
  4. Zebra3 Force Ghost

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    Aug 28, 2004
    star 5
    There's also that scene at the beginning of X3 where Xavier and Magneto go to meet Jean. They're still working together and Charles can walk....

    You know, there's a lot that doesn't get to me when it comes to movies. I don't mind the occasional plot hole. I don't even mind it when a character's actor changes like in Iron Man 2 and The Dark Knight. But it really does bug me when a movie isn't consistent with its own established history.

    That said, I still like the movie.
  5. Dawud786 Force Ghost

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    Dec 28, 2006
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    So basically... First Class is really just Fox trying to keep the film rights to X-Men before they can expire and Disney/Marvel take it back?

    They can't even keep continuity with 4 of their own films...
  6. Yodaminch Chosen One

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    By the film's own design, it is impossible. Xavier ends the movie in the chair with hair. That completely removes anything with Jean or Scott from the other two movies. And because Beast built Cerebro and it worked without any trouble whatsoever, there is no need for Magneto to help him build a better one in any sequel since Beast and Charles can simply rebuild it themselves.

    It's just easier to call this a reboot and go with it. No other franchise has muddled with their own movie continuity as badly.
  7. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Well, it'd be convoluted, but if Erik and Charles reconcile then there could be a solution to Charles being able to walk temporarily (either he's not physically there (a mental projection), or is being augmented by anotehr mutant's powers (either Erik with a metal frame on Charles or some other mutant), and during this period Erik could help Chuck build the actual Cerebro below the mansion.
  8. Yodaminch Chosen One

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    But at that point, why bother? Why jump through all those hoops in some attempt to match up with the other movies? This isn't Star Wars. X-Men can reboot and veer off into other directions. It does not strictly HAVE to fall in line with the existing franchise. It can and should be something new. Unlike Spider-Man, X-Men definitely deserved a full reboot. And now they have the power to do so. Batman greatly benefited from it and so will X-Men.
  9. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    If they wanted to do a full reboot, they could have, but they don't and they didn't. They want to make X4 next, alongside Wolverine 2 and Deadpool.

    That, and they don't want to recast anyone as Wolverine and they're not going to reboot it with the same actor.
  10. Dawud786 Force Ghost

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    ^I think even if Marvel were to get the film rights to X-Men back they'd be reluctant to recast Wolverine. And who can blame them really? Who would fit the part, and have so much love for the character? Jackman is obsessed with Logan.
  11. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    That's the catch- if Marvel got the rights back, it'd be really difficult to recast Logan or even (older) Charles- who is better than Jackman and Stewart? (as great as Ian is as Magneto, one could potentially see them recasting the role, IMO).

    But, if your going to reboot, you generally don't want any of the same actors in the same roles, to be able to market it as different. And, if Marvel got the rights back, they definitely would want to distinguish it as the New Marvel X-Men Movies.

    Then again, with the time likely to elapse before Marvel gets the rights back, they'll probably have no choice but to recast as both Jackman and Stewart will be too old.
  12. Yodaminch Chosen One

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    Moves have rebooted with the same actors. The most famous example is Judi Dench as M in the Bond series. So I could easily see Stewart sticking around as Xavier.
  13. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    True...though Bond has never really been a film with long term continuity. It'd be like Casino Royale rebooting the series with Brosnan in the lead role.
  14. DRush76 Force Ghost

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    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4
    It was a pretty good movie, but it was marred by two things . . . bad continuity and bad costumes. The movie is supposed to be set in 1962. Yet, the costumes reflected the late 1960s. How is it that Matthew Vaughn was unaware of this?
  15. kristy Jedi Youngling

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    Dec 9, 2010
    Great release movie of the week. I gonna enjoy it last night and i have not spouse it so good as it is. Actually last X Men release movie was not so interesting. But X Men First class is totally enjoyable to me. I like it's story and great stuffs of action, adventure and drama.
  16. Zebra3 Force Ghost

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  17. Magellan_the_Cat Jedi Master

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    Guy, Marvel did re-writes, retcons, and alternate universes every 5 years or so when I was reading them. It's been over 10 years since X-men movie 1 came out.
    Of course the new movie is going to be different.
    Of course there are going to be inconsistencies.
    Of course they are going to get stuff "wrong".

    Cope.

    If the movie doesn't totally suck, hey, that's a step up from normal, and way better than most movies that are churned out like bad sausage in a meat-packing factory.
  18. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    There's a difference between inconsistencies in 40+ years of comic issues numbering in the thousands (between the various series) and 5 films. The inconsistencies are not minor nitpicks (like, say Wolverine contradicting some of the Weapon X flashbacks from X1 & X2), but directly invalidate significant plotpoints.

    And that says nothing about it not being a clean reboot, either. It's also not a retcon because there is no explanation right now (the explanation would be the retcon, not the conflict itself). now if a sequel retcons it, fine- but it's a little sloppy when a FC sequel is not guaranteed, as it leaves the series fractured if Fox goes ahead with X4 instead of FC2, since the 3 best films in the series (so far) wouldn't make sense together.
  19. dante144 Force Ghost

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    Loved the movie. Possibly the best of the X-Men movies.

    But I think they should reboot the movies and make it closer to the comic books.
  20. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

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    Nov 8, 2004
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    Agreed. I saw it yesterday. VERY fun. The Logan cameo was very funny. Michael Fassbender's Magneto was the highlight however, delisciously evil and quite twisted.
  21. GenAntilles Force Ghost

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    Jul 24, 2007
    star 4
    I actually thought Michael played Magneto fairly heroically, I never really saw any real evil in him at all. All he did was kill nazis, and really that's a good thing. He tried to wipe out the American and Soviet fleets but like he said they just declared war on all mutants.

    I really liked Charles telling him that there were good men on those ships that were just 'following orders'. It was a bad choice of words on Charles part, but it also points out something I found interesting. We're supposed to feel sympathy for the American crew even though their about to do the same thing the Nazis we got to see murderized did. What is the difference between those men on the boats and the germans? I'm agreeing with Magneto on this, there wasn't any real difference, both were trying to wipe out an entire people.
  22. Magellan_the_Cat Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 2003
    star 4
    "How fast to the WhiteStar ships fly in Hyperspace?"
    "They fly at the speed of PLOT."

    Is the movie "X-Men 4"? no.
    Let us assume that it is a completely independent movie, regardless of what the studio says.
    Is Dekkert an Android? According to Ridley Scott, Yes. According to the original novel, Maybe. According to the BladeRunner2 novel, No. So, it seems to be a matter of perspective, and sometimes studio execs and mouth-pieces are wrong.
    X3 wasn't a bad movie, on its own. Compared to X-men and X2, it was no where near as good, but it wasn't that bad. Take another look at X2--the movie has about 5 endings, but it keeps on going, and going... and going... Same with Lord of the Rings3. But almost everyone thinks those are the best movies in the series.

    Sorry, a little incoherent today.
    (dbl post?)
  23. DRush76 Force Ghost

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    Jan 25, 2008
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    I really liked Charles telling him that there were good men on those ships that were just 'following orders'. It was a bad choice of words on Charles part, but it also points out something I found interesting. We're supposed to feel sympathy for the American crew even though their about to do the same thing the Nazis we got to see murderized did. What is the difference between those men on the boats and the germans? I'm agreeing with Magneto on this, there wasn't any real difference, both were trying to wipe out an entire people.


    I think that Charles wanted Erik to realize that exacting vengeance allows murder and eventually evil into one's heart. Which is exactly what happened to Erik. Now, Erik could have simply protected the mutants on that island by allowing the warheads to explode into one another and making the non-mutants realize that killing mutants will not be as easy as they thought. Instead, he tried to wipe out the American and Soviet fleets, via mass murder. Erik became the very people he saw as threats - non-mutants and especially the Nazis.
  24. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

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  25. GenAntilles Force Ghost

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