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Amph X-Men Movies & TV - Discussion

Discussion in 'Community' started by JoinTheSchwarz , Oct 6, 2010.

  1. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    That's fundamentally different than what happened here. I'm perfectly fine with a character changing race or gender. What's deeply problematic is exulting her whiteness into some sort of essential and nigh spiritual quality. It is very much an embodiment of several notions that are at the heart of imperialist modes of thought. Unavoidably, it frames being Caucasian--or, at least, avoiding the fate of being non-white--as so special and desirable as to make all the unnecessary twists in the story worthwhile.
     
  2. GenAntilles

    GenAntilles Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2007
    How is her whiteness being exulted? She's Asian now and that's her more iconic look and appearance to most people. Most laymen who don't know the comic history will assume she was always Asian.
     
  3. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    And then be subjected to some comic book fan telling us how dare we make that assumption, because she's actually white. It almost implicitly positions the idea of being Asian as insulting, and at the very best validates what racists have argued all along: that someone's ethnicity is an essential, fundamental, irrevocable part of their being that overwhelms the other parts of them (even the very features used to define said ethnicity). After a fashion, it's one upping the "one drop rule" and replacing it with a "no drop rule."

    The correct comparison is not a white Psylocke versus a white-woman-trapped-in-an-Asian-body Psylocke, it's a character that merely seems Asian in every single way but somehow can't be to an Asian that is just Asian.
     
  4. Darth_Invidious

    Darth_Invidious Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 21, 1999

    Still, regardless of the intent - even if just for the mere sake of adding diversity in a team of heroes that is already diverse enough and had recently acquired an Asian character in the form of Jubilee - the execution in regards to Betsy's ethnic change was rather poor. The Kwannon/Revanche retcon to further explain (read: compound the absurdity) of that change was atrocious. I'm more inclined to the notion that Jim Lee simply wanted to make white, "bland" Psylocke into a hot asian ass-kicking ninja babe. Marvel must've agreed with him since she died once or twice in the 15 or so years since and she still came back to life in Kwannon's asian body.
     
  5. GenAntilles

    GenAntilles Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2007
    I dunno, maybe I'm under-thinking it. Just seems odd that in a universe where sex, race, and species changes happen so often, and almost always with poor storytelling made just to facilitate that change, that Psylocke's change is so problematic. At least in-universe it should be business as usual.
     
  6. Adam of Nuchtern

    Adam of Nuchtern Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012

    Are you really trying to equivocate something like passing the mantle of Captain America from a white man to black man with literally altering a character's looks in order to make her appear Asian. Seriously?
     
  7. GenAntilles

    GenAntilles Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Nah, but Loki becoming Lady Loki... Thor being a woman... Avengers vs X-Men ending with random humans turning into mutants... etc... I mean the comics have clearly shown that being ANY minority is something can can happen to anyone at any point no matter who you are.

    If mutants are oppressed and discriminated against and any random human can suddenly become one when the story says so... I mean the medium is clearly saying race, gender, etc.... don't really count for squat. It's all essentially a wardrobe change.
     
  8. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Steve Rogers and Sam Wilson are two different men who have worn the mantle of Captain America. This is different from Betsy Braddock having her mind transplanted from her body to another and gaining that person's skills. The issue for some is that the Asian character could have been new and Betsy learns from her and thus changes her outfit accordingly.
     
    Adam of Nuchtern likes this.
  9. GenAntilles

    GenAntilles Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Yeah but wouldn't that be even more racist? Dressing up in someone elses cultural or stereotypical attire is considered racist in modern culture. Also it'd be another issue of a 'white' character doing something better than a minority does. Isn't it much better for Betty to be an Asian mutant super ninja than to be a while mutant super ninja?
     
  10. Dingo

    Dingo Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 23, 2001
    For most is isn't the in-universe implications of the change, it's the real world issues that most people bring up. But that said, there are implications in-universe that are completely white-washed over.

    We have a 'proper' English woman who was transplanted into the body of an Asian woman, and at no point in time has that dichotomy ever been addressed. I could say something about it, but it's easier to let G. Willow Wilson's words on it do that:
    On the real-world side, you have the writers basically assuming that it's okay to just completely change the body of some character they don't like the look of to a different race (and objectify her in the process) to help fulfil a hole in their diversity rather than taking the time to create a brand new character with an authentic backstory that serves the needs of story even if it's a move made for diversification motives.
     
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  11. GenAntilles

    GenAntilles Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Obviously they should try and fix that in their big reboot, make her Asian from the start, if not for racial issues, then just to simplify the backstory for new readers.

    I mean I doubt the Psylocke in the movie is going to have that convoluted backstory.
     
  12. Master_Lok

    Master_Lok Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2012
    With Singer at the helm, chances are Psylocke won't have that history.
     
  13. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    I think considering how late into pre-production this casting was announced she's gonna have, like, 4 lines, max.
     
  14. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    With an actress who looks largely Caucasian, chances are she probably won't be Asian, either. That brings us full circle.
     
  15. GenAntilles

    GenAntilles Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2007
    If they wanted a Caucasian English woman they would've cast one. Honestly dismissing every person as 'white' if one of their parents is white is downright racist.
     
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  16. Dingo

    Dingo Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 23, 2001
    Yes, because that's how it works. They never cast major roles within days of starting to film.
     
  17. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012

    Fair point, but the announcement and Great Casting Search for Young Jean and Scott were reported on by the trades much more closely. The casting for Apocalypse himself was announced forever ago. Nobody knew Psylocke was in this movie until, like, yesterday. I think a smaller sized role for Psylocke seems to be likelier because there was nothing indicating that the character would be in the movie until recently while the previous big X-Men roles - and the actors up for them - were reported on for a long-o time.
     
  18. GenAntilles

    GenAntilles Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Just because she was announced recently doesn't mean she was cast recently. She could've been cast months ago but they waited till now to reveal it.
    And I'm pretty sure Singer was talking about having Psylocke in the next film fight after Days was in theaters.
     
  19. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012

    Also a fair point. I'm just thinkin of how many returning actors and characters they're juggling - Jennifer Lawrence back as Mysitque, all of the returning First Class and DoFP vets, freakin' Hugh Jackman as Wolverine is in it - plus the original recasting of Jean and Scott and so forth, a baddie the movie is titled after, there's only so many characters you can push as the "lead". Beast in DoFP is a secondary character, which Psylocke could be around there, but I doubt she'll be up in the featured top level characters with all of the previous alums and nu-Cyclops / Jean / Angel in it. After the smattering of announcements of New Mutants in DoFP that, Quicksilver aside, were just kinda there (izzat Bishop? Well, he had a line or three.), I'm doubtful many newcommers to Apocalypse will be in the lead category.
     
  20. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001

    More than likely the film will compromise by having Betsy being Chinese-Caucasian from the get go.
     
  21. Diggy

    Diggy Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Feb 27, 2013
    [​IMG]

    Posted and then pulled by Singer on his twitter.
     
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  22. JEDI-RISING

    JEDI-RISING Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 15, 2005
    i wonder how they're going to explain him being with the team in the 80s
     
  23. GenAntilles

    GenAntilles Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2007
    timeline has been changed, people can be born earlier now.
     
  24. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    A wizard made it happen.
     
    BigAl6ft6 and Jedi Merkurian like this.
  25. JEDI-RISING

    JEDI-RISING Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 15, 2005
    yes i suppose that is true about the timeline changing things