Amph X-Men Movies & TV - Discussion

Fox has made four very good superhero films, and all of them had the title "X-Men" somewhere in there. Everything else they've done has been a steaming pile (all of Fantastic Four save most of the casting, one other X-Men film, the first Wolverine, all of the Daredevil canon, etc) or one problematic but wholly entertaining Wolverine flick.

Sony has made two very good Spider-Man films, two very bad Spider-Man films, and one I can't judge and yet they get more flack for fewer films and a smaller sample size and gave into Marvel, despite Spider-Man being the most popular superhero in any media.

 

Ok. I'll bite.

Why I want the film to fail:

1) Grounded, Grittty and Realistic has been done to death. What works for Batman does NOT work for everyone. At it's heart, the Fantastic Four franchise has always been about exploration and going into the unknown (see Negative Zone, Moleman, Namor, Outer space and Silver Surfer and Galactus).
2) Changes for the sake of change. Explain to me why Johnny had to be black but Sue had to be white. Explain to me why Michael Jordan couldn't have just been Ben or Reed over Johnny. The result is Sue is an adopted Kosovo war orphan and Johnny is older than Reed. Basically more complications to the story that weren't needed.
3) Part 2 of that: Ben goes from a jock to coming from an abusive family because Kinberg and Trank think it's better.
4) Thing with no pants. And no size consistency either. And a high pitched voice compared to the normal "gravelly" tone we're used to in other media.
5) Doom is ruined again. Not Von Doom. Now Domashev. Has powers again. Gets them through accident with the FF again.
6) Moleman is apparently a government agent now?
7) Awful costumes. I don't really care much about protosuits. Again, what works for Batman doesn't work for all. Black suits with vents and springs and no pants for thing just looks dumb. Not "realistic". Of the many sins the previous film had, the costumes weren't one. If it ain't broke...
8) Awful CG effects. The whole thing looks dark, muddied and the graphics look cheap. See that gif of Ben throwing a tank and the tank just disappearing in the explosion instead of fracturing into pieces.
9) No one seems to know what the tone of this film is. On the one hand you had Trank comparing it to The Fly and Teller saying it's not for kids. Then you have marketing showing it full of humor and trying to be action packed.
10) It's essentially the Story film with a new cast. Group goes exploring, has accident, gains powers, copes with said powers, fights Doom at the end. Amazing Spider-Man did the same thing and audiences were less than pleased with seeing a slightly different take on the same old story.

All of those points lead me to be mostly angry that the film was made, because it feels cheap and it looks cheap and it is just a rights grab. It barely follows any of the FF lore. One of my greatest pet peeves is taking characters and FORCING them to fit the plot instead of actually developing a story that fits the characters you are using. Simon Kinberg and Josh Trank took the FF and altered them to fit THEIR preferences rather than try and be a bit more faithful to the source material. They did it with 4 of the 5 characters in fact. Compare that with the other two Fox properties coming out: Ryan Reynold's Deadpool looks like he stepped out of a comic book. Instantly recognizable. Olivia Munn does the same for Psylocke while still wearing a costume that looks a bit more realistic. Magneto still has his helmet. Xavier is going bald and the images of the new X-cast make it clear who each one is playing visually. I can even get behind Apocalypse because he's at least in the spirit of the character even if he does look a bit too much like Ivan Ooze. Still, I am looking forward to both of these X-Men films whereas I really do hope this FF film does not succeed mostly because it would validate the studio and the director and their choices which I do not support and do not want to see repeated going forward.

But if you took away the thing and showed a photo of the three cast members to most people, no one would know who these characters were. And even if you add the thing, it's not a guarantee that they will figure it out. It looks generic and dull. There is nothing Fantastic about this movie except perhaps how fantastically they may have failed.

Let me also add:

11) Other than his arms, does any other part of Reed stretch? Where is "Mr. Fantastic"

 

I actually hadn't heard the bit about Kosovo -- so thanks for spoilers, bitch! -- but I can explain. It's actually stupider than you think.

Sue is white because they were okay giving the go-ahead to give Trank's buddy a role in the film (for which he's very deserving -- he's probably the best actor of the bunch) and make Johnny Storm black but not okay with making Sue black because she's still probably going to get with Reed and that would make it an interracial relationship which is not something they were prepared to greenlight.

That's why Jedi Merkurian and I have been going on about the stunt nature of the casting since the beginning when it was clear we were getting a black Storm family... except for Sue. Because they didn't want to commit.

EDIT: Fun side note. You know who did commit? Those heathens who made the original films, since they got Kerry Washington to play Alicia Masters, thus giving Ben Grimm (a white guy before Thingification) a black girlfriend. And she was white in comics.

Because Kerry Washington is victorious in all things, really.

EDIT2: http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/artic...he-final-film-yet---and-its-out-in-a-few-days

Nut graf: "Rarely are films of this size critically well received," he said. "This is not a movie we're going to go on (review website) Rotten Tomatoes and it's going to be at 80 or 90 per cent."

Ahahahahahaha...

Rogue Nation just opened to a 93%. Ant-Man was just shy of 80% (79%). Let's not even talk of the Captain Americas, Avengers, Dark Knights...

 

Just digging this up for a second, but go read about what's planned post Secret Wars. So not what Marvel are planning.

 

Ok, I'll bite: what's Marvel got planned with its Merry Muties so far, other than having two Wolverines That Are Not Quite Wolverine?

 

Trank comes from a "mixed" family himself, and wanted to explore that idea on film (and use MBJ in the process). As for Sue being a Kosovo orphan, my response is simple. So what? These films are all essentially AU takes on characters that have been around for DECADES!! Frankly, they SHOULD change up the formula at times, to keep things fresh. And it's not like Marvel hasn't done that plenty of times in their films. Apparently, when they do it. they're "creative" and "thinking outside the box." But when others do it, they're "clueless" and "don't respect the source material." Nope, not buying it.

 

I think the fact that FOX isn't lifting it's embargo on reviews for FF4 until the day of it's release is telling in and of itself.

 

But perhaps they just want it to be a nice surprise!

 

I'm pretty sure you're not serious but, no, history tells us such things rarely apply to movies and reviews that come out simultaneously.

 

Apparently Tatum has sealed a deal to stay on with Gambit:
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/channing-tatum-closes-his-gambit-812514

Personally, I'm betting it will be a mess.

 

Just remember, as of yesterday the cast of the film hadn't seen it... in any finished form...

 

Source?

 

http://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2015/07/fantastic_four_review_embargo.html

EDIT: Online is apparently the day before, print day of.

 

I'll just leave this here.

http://comicbook.com/2015/08/03/michael-fassbender-james-mcavoy-reportedly-extend-x-men-deal-pas/

Looks like we're on our way to the 90's.

 

Regarding FF, unless Trank is just a complete idiot with what he's been saying, I look forward to the Cronenbergian body horror he's promised us. Ben Grimm grows pebbles out of his skin and ***** gravel on his food.

 

If that's speculation about McAvoy, Fassbender and Lawrence, etc returning to the franchise after Apocalypse turns out to be true, that's pretty awesome. To me, that says the actors really enjoy portraying their roles and it provides continuity within the films. What would be even more awesome if Deadpool gets a crossover or cameo with the X-Men.

As for Channing Tatum and Gambit... I was pretty indifferent if he left the project as I really couldn't see him in the role and I would like to give Taylor Kitsch in the role, especially since I heard that when Kitsch was filming for Friday Night Lights that in between takes he would practice card tricks and train with a bo staff for his role as Gambit. However, now that if been reported the deal has been seal with Tatum as Gambit, I hope he does a wonderful job. But, I don't want Gambit as the new "Wolverine" type character for the X-Men franchise. Meaning, I would really disappointed if the built the X-Films around Gambit when there are so many other top tier characters to build around, namely Cyclops. That's probably my biggest gripe with Singer's X-Men flicks, the poor treatment of Cyclops. Singer made Cyclops seem like a spoiled preppy rich kid, when he's actually he was a poor orphan and truly found a family with the X-Men. If the X-Men franchise does to a 90s film, I want to see the Jim Lee version of the team complete with Wolverine and Rogue. However, they would have to retcon Rogue, which I'll probably be fine with.




As far as the Fantastic Four failing both critically and financially at the box office, well, I actually don't want it fail even though I would love to see them as part of the MCU. I really want this iteration of the film to succeed. I mean, I've seen the campy, fun and comic booky version of the F4 in the Jessica Alba films and it did not work. I'm intrigued with this "real world" version of the characters. And blogger Doom bothers me as much as hipster Lex Luthor, in that it doesn't. What will matter is the story telling and if the film can break away from the stink of the two previous films. Moreover, if Marvel did get the rights back to Fantastic Four, I think it would be several years before the could be introduced as Phase 3 of the MCU is well under way.

 

No way.... Seriously?

 

Well, going off of their appearance on "Conan" at SDCC last month, McAvoy, Fassbender and Hoult appear to be having all kinds of fun working together. On DOFP, they were shooting each other with BB guns and this time they're slapping each other's faces and punching each other on the arm. So they definitely get along well. And if this report is true, whatever ideas are brewing for the future seems to be intriguing enough to do one or two more films. Lawrence is the wild card, but given what "First Class" set up, they can get away with recasting if necessary. I can understand her not wanting to come back, since she did two franchises at the same time and it does take a lot of work doing these types of films.

 

I think the Lawrence-fever we saw about her rise to become the star she is now has subsided somewhat. IMO, I think that she will probably return to the franchise. I think some of it is that she was doing Hunger Games at the same time. Once that is over and she has had a small break, I could see her coming back is the deal is right. Though if she decides to not then yeah, I could see the role being recast.

 

McAvoy and Fassbender have great chemistry on screen. The biggest problem the franchise has, imo, is that the makers keep wanting Magneto to turn dark, while the real magic is watching Xavier and Magneto as friends and allies.

 

I second that. I don't want to see Fassbender be a kinder, gentler Magneto. But he could still be his usual aloof ***hole flying squarely on the side of the angels, working side by side with Xavier for the benefit of their people.

 

I'd watch an X-Men movie that was just Xavier and Magneto hitting bars. McAvoy and Fassbender would make it work.

 

That's one of my favorite things about X-Men: First Class; when Chuck was using his powers to pick up women at bars. It showed a side of Chuck never really seen before. I mean, before then, Charles was all prim and proper; basically boring. Now, bar hoping Chuck is a guy you'd want to be friends with and probably take to Vegas for some poker.

 

FOX Negotiating X-Men TV Series With Marvel - IGN News

Two things came across my mind when I heard of this news, (1) what characters would be involved in the TV show and (2) Marvel and Fox are negotiating... I'm thinking Marvel might flex some leverage here and request for rights to characters from the X-Men universe, or even a melting of the cold war between the studios, which could open the door for potential cross-overs and collaboration projects like Marvel has with Sony/Spider-man.