ST Incom T-70: X-Wings in the ST

That's the important difference between how ST and SW have handled their sci-fi elements.
ST cannot resist trying to explain every illogical gadget, but the writers are certainly not physicists, and they don't listen to the physicists they consult. They say the ships are powered by positron/electron reactions, but anyone familiar with the science should know it would take an absurd mass (at that energy density) to store the power required for the ships to preform as they do; orders of magnitude beyond the canonical weight of the ship. If mass negation was such a crucial element of ST engineering, they would've mentioned it in such an in-depth explanation.
Don't even get me started on phasers...

Star Wars, by contrast (and at its best), just creates something that feels real and lets our imaginations run wild. Tell me all that energy comes from "hypermatter" and I can conjure up any number of theoretical exotic particles that could be contained by a suitably high-tech system and provide such absurd energy densities. For me that's great fun, while someone who doesn't care about the science doesn't have to spare another thought.
That's not to say SW hasn't had its science blunders, but they're far fewer and easier to explain in the OT than most sci-fi movies (I won't get into the PT) - obvious Space Opera tropes like audible, non-Newtonian space combat aside. I hope the ST continues this tradition.

 

It's probably a safe bet that the tradition will continue.

 

Yeah, science, shmience. If Star War had to start explaining things, the movies would lose their magic.

 

Yes, hyperspace travel time travel is all over the place in Star Wars - but if they start explaining it or sticking to it the rulers in the movies it will just get in the way of the story.

 

Well I've been thinking about this alot lately because I'm so obsessed with starship designs from both the PT and OT, I've decided to start sketching the x-xwing mark 2 (or X2 as I like to call it) to see how it looks in attack position and also figure out if the engines split in half like the original Ralph McQuarie concepts depict or if they open in a more interesting way.



When I looked at the angles closely, I realized that the split engine design of Ralph's doesn't quite work with the split-wing style of the new X2. Here's why: While I certainly agree that JJ incorporated RMs early x-wing concepts in the design of the X2, especially with the more elegant looking body and flattened nose, I suspect that JJ also took a little bit of influence for the X2's engines from the prequel's version of the x-wing: the ARC-170

Exhibit A: Arc-170




Exhibit B:


Notice how the engines on the ARC are very similar to the engines on the X2. We all know that the s-foils on the ARC attach and split at it's engines, so I'd bet that JJ went with the same design for the X2 as a throwback to PT fans (gasp!!) as well as OT fans with the McQuarrie influence in the design of the body. It's genius because you can't see how awesome this new ship looks until the s-foils open:

Exhibit C:



As you can see the results are quite convincing. I tried drawing it so that the angle of the wings pointed toward the center of the ship like the OT x-wing, but it looked pretty terrible and didn't make any logical sense concerning how they actually rotate around the engine to open. I might have drawn them a little too spread open but you can probably imagine what it'd look like if they weren't. Some creative liberty had to be taken because all I could use was the JJ video as a reference.

The reason I picked the angle of the opened s-foils is because I realized while looking at the ARC that when the s-foils opened they pointed toward the center of the engines rather than pointing toward the center of the ship like the OT xwing's s-foils do. It makes less of a perfect "X" shape but somehow makes it look faster by making the engines appear much larger.

Also, I noticed some problems with the fan made mockup from ealier in this thread. If you look at how the fan-made x-wing's engines split in comparison to where the wings actually attach to the engines in the JJ vid, you'll see that the 3D artist cheated a little bit with where they put the wings.

 

nice sketch

 

Heck yeah it is a nice sketch! Very well done!

 

Thanks guys! I worked pretty hard on it. My sketching skills aside, what does everyone think of how the non-splitting engines look? Do you think this is how it's going to work in the films? I do.The main reason I sketched this was to see what it'd look like and get the board's feedback

 

I like the way the new X-Wing looks. Different but still recognizable as an X-Wing. I'd have been a little disappointed if the X-Wing looked the same after 30 years.

 

I am still on board with the x-split at the fuselage rather than at the engines, but your sketch is awesome and helps me know that if you are right, it will still look great.

 

Very nice! Well thought out and well drawn. Now if we could just have JJ pose in front of a ST TIE fighter!

 

Darthpopper's sketch is what I tried to illustrate with my crude MS Paint mock up earlier in the thread. Thank you for another perspective, popper.

I am of the camp that the XWing would look ridiculous if the S-Foils split at/around the engines. The ARC-170 was a silly looking ship, and for my money I would prefer that the XWing doesn't veer towards that design.

 

I think that it looks pretty ridiculous with the engines split. I tried drawing it a bunch of different ways like this, all of them required a lot of cheating to make it look decent. If the engines split, the wings would still have to be adjusted as well. I agree that overall the arc-170 is kinda silly looking, but I sure do like the way the wings open

 

The ARC-170 is a sweet ship.

 

Nice post, but I disagree, and the biggest reason is the exhaust ports. There are 4 of them on the new X-wing. There wouldn't be a need for 4 of them if the engines weren't split into 4 engines. The Arc-fighter had 2 engines, 2 exhaust ports. The X-wing had 4 engines 4 exhaust ports. I don't see the new X-wing having 2 engines, 4 exhaust ports.

You can see there are 2 ports clearly for each "engine" in this image - suggesting that it's not just a single engine, but 2 separate engineS.

 

I get it, and I think I might do another sketch where I try it again with the engines opened, but the angles of the wings always looked too spread open. My only argument is that if the engine's split, the wings would have to open separately because the center of the engines meet the exact center of the front wing. They'd have to move otherwise they'd stick out....

 

I think this rendering several pages back did a good job...

 

Its completely wrong though. Look at where the wings attach to the engines in this photo compared to the render:

Wings are centered with the engines

 

I fail to see exactly what's "wrong" about it.

The render shows that there is a step "up" in the bottom wing from where the split happens to where the engine on the lower wing is. That accounts for the space from the middle of the top engine when the S-foils are closed for the front wing.

Here's an animated rendering that shows that same step height change on the front wing when the S-foils are opened...

 

Definitely a nice sketch, darthpopper, but I agree with EviL_eLF. Then again, I also agree with TheBBP:

Regarding the ARC-170, I think it was actually pretty cool, but I wish they hadn't tried to tie it in as an X-Wing predecessor with the S-foils. It seems a lot larger with a crew of 3, and the Headhunter has always seemed like a more natural lead-up to the X-Wing. I suppose you could say both influenced its design. My main gripe about the ARC-170 is that some of its exaggerated features are caricaturistic. Especially the laser cannons, engine cowlings, and odd nose seem out-of-proportion with the rest of the ship. Cool design otherwise, though- makes me think of a WWII night fighter! (I think making dogfights in Star Wars reminiscent to those in WWII was a big factor in its lasting success, IMO.)


One last thing while I can still edit this (lol):
Besides the 4 exhaust ports, another nail in the coffin of the engines not moving is their spacing from the fuselage. There's no reason to have such a large gap there unless the engines get closer in the attack/opened position.

 

I think the new X-wings look perfect. Realistic but sleek and "modern". The ARC-like exhaust ports or whatever they are look great.

 

That A-Arc is really ugly looking

 

The wings in this render are missing attachment pieces and the artist cheated with the dimensions. Just envision it actually opening up like that and you'll know it's not right.

 

I do envision it, and I don't see a problem with it.

The attachment pieces aren't in this one, but they are in the other one... both show the same thing, but the step height is easier to see in this one due to the larger scale.

 

Well, y'know what guys? You've only got 16 months to go to argue this thing out!

Or you could just sit back, admire each other's talent and wait with bated breath like I am... but that's just me.