Xanatos Underground Lair: Discussion Thread -New topic 4/26!

So Granta would be six when Xan left the order? And Xan knew about him at the time?

 

Well, I guess that leads to wondering if Granta was a mistake or not, as I seriously doubt Xan was thinking of revenge or even of leaving at nineteen. Though, Xanatos seems too intelligent to make such a mistake. Yet, if it was indeed a mistake, I wonder if Granta was his only child.

I could see it being a mistake if it happened when he was an apprentice. Maybe not so much a mistake as he didn't care - he wasn't thinking about the consequences. He wasn't expecting to leave the order, has a fling - maybe even on a mission and doesn't look back until he leaves the order.

If the woman was well connected or useful after he left, he might have looked her up again and finds out he has a son.

 

If Xan didn't know about the kid, then prehaps some of Granta's anti-jedi feelings came from his mom. She may have hated the Jedi for not providing child support...but if Xan sent them away to be safe then he'd have had to have provided for their needs somehow...and he wouldn't have been pulling off of his fathers resources for that, would he?

Or prehaps thats the hold Crion had over him--he knew about Granta and commed his father for help?

What do you think the kid's name really was (Granta was a code name, right)?

 

Keep hoping Birdy.

I can't remember much about Granta from the books but I don't recall it ever being mentioned that Xan planned to use Granta in any way against the Jedi. I got the impression that Granta's hate for Obi and the Jedi was fed by the man who took care of him and not Xan. I also got the impression that Xan had little use for Granta once he realized he wasn't Force sensitive. I think if he had been, Xan would've taken more of an interest in him. Maybe even raising him.

 

Granta and the concept of the "voids" both scream "advance Yuuzhan Vong infiltrators".

 

I hadn't thought of that, thanks Kudzu! I like that idea - because that means that the guy didn't really exist...

Which fixes pretty much every problem, except why didn't Obi figure out that there was an age problem?

 

Because she who will not be named wrote the series? SO Granta could have been the beginning of the Vong infiltration?

 

'Nooo, that's not true. That's impossible!'

*coughs* Getting that out of my system... Granta couldn't possibly be of the Vong, I deny the very possibility of it.

The whole void thing is just a mutation in poor Granta's genes. Either something got copied or deleted, thus creating a faulty genetic code. Which explains why he got everything but his father's Force ability and temperament. *nodes* (silently curses her Prof for filling her head with stuff)

I rather support the idea that Xan had a fling, accidentally got a kid, found out, gave the kid the cold shoulder, and shipped him and his mother off to some planet to keep them and the reminder out of his way. Not how I would like it, but anything is better then the idea that baby Omega didn't exist.

Besides, considering how the guy met his end, you would think a Vong infiltrator would find a better death then that.

*glances back on her post* Yep, I've gone to being a Granta fan. Should I be worried?

 

Yes! A fan of the JQ series Granta? No! A fan of the one I've seen you, Noi and tangled_sphere write recently? Yes! Like his daddy, Granta is only going to be given a decent life by fanfic writers.

 

One of them. Obi-Wan mentioned "voids". Seems to jive with people like Nom Anor and Yomin Carr masquerading as ordinary blokes but being oddly absent in the Force...

Remember how interested the Vong leadership was in the concept of the Sith dark-side Force warriors?

 

Another interesting tidbit in the Unoffcial Encycopedia: Being from another galaxy, the Yuuzhan Vong cellular structure contained no midi-chlorians, thereby rendering them untouchable to the Force.




Very interesting! They were supposedly stripped of the Force and there was evidence they'd visited the GFFA a good fifty years earlier. The plot thickens?

 

Hey! Who left and forgot to turn out the lights?




[image=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v189/Darkened_Angel/stuart-townsend-03.jpg]

 

That's true on that. Poor Granta has his daddy's disease, sadly, though, its fun curing him of it.

On that note, and the fact that I keep having random thoughts concerning those two... Excluding Watson's cardboard Xan, and considering the whole deal that Granta was born during Xan's Padawanship, it makes me wonder what Xan's real reasons for leaving the Jedi were. I'm not buying the whole concept of Xan wanting money/power and siding with his father, who he hasn't seen in twenty years or so, to get it. That is considering he would be plunging himself into a civil war from which he might die from and making an enemy of the Jedi as well. I know I'm rather bias, but I do believe Xan would and could find an easier way to gain money and power, if he wanted it that badly. In fact, he did with Offworld. Thus, he could have easily left the Jedi on fair terms. And I doubt he was that attached to a man he barely knew, so technically it has less grounds then Granta's want for revenge on Obi.

At any rate, before I ramble further. I was thinking maybe Crion was holding something over Xanatos. He very likely could have gotten information on Xan's son, and either threatened to ruin his reputation with both the Jedi and general if he didn't join up with him, or he had gotten hold of Granta and threatened to do something to the boy and his mother unless Xan complied.

Merely a thought, as I seemingly have too many of them.

 

Interesting. It's possible I suppose but doesn't explain why Xan went after Jinn for Killing his father. Unless his father was the only one who knew where the kid was stashed and the secret died with him.

 

Let's face it. The whole Xan/Crion/Jinn story doesn't make sense anyway. Why would Xan side with a father he hadn't seen in years? Why would Jinn kill said father and cut off his finger (I never could figure that one out)? Why would Xan go after Jinn for revenge with the whole father thing unless there was some emotional connection to the father and when did Xan have time to do that?

None of it makes logical sense and even with fanfic trying to work around it, it still doesn't work well...

 

It truly doesn't. Like we've discussed before, poor Xan was just a plot device.

 

New topic: Padawan Xanatos and his Jedi Master. Do you think Xanatos had genuine feelings for Qui-Gon when he was young? Or was his every move calculated even as a child?

 

I think the answer to this question depends on how far back you want to go. Was he calculating at nine? I doubt it, but he was probably already attempting to be manipulative. Xan seems like one of those kids who would have pushed the limits just to see how far they could stretch them and store that information for later.

I'd say by the time he was 13 he was already planning his moves, thinking about his master's reactions, and how best to get the reaction he wanted out of Jinn. He may have been good at it then, he may not have and Jinn might have been turning a blind eye to the whole mess, but either way it gave him the confidence to push more become more knieving until he was good enough to get everything to go his way.

 

I agree with Birdy. I don't see him really starting to make any significant moves until older, but I have no doubt he could have been well on his way to being a master manipulator by the age of nine. I mean, my five year old knows how to milk everything he can out of an opportunity. I also imagine Crion or whatever servant he had caring for Xanatos was quite indulging. And then, I can see Qui-Gon being so loving with the, "He just doesn't understand things here ... he'll learn ... he'll get over it ... he didn't mean it." And, kids pick up on that.

 

I do think there was genuine love on both sides in the beginning. I do however agree that Xan was clever enough to realize that he had Jinn wrapped around his little finger and could get away with a lot. I think that knowledge established their relationship early on and was one reason that Qui-Gon was blind to what Xan was really like until it was too late.

 

I agree. Xan would not have been "evil" as a child, but there are kids who learn to manipulate those around them early on. We've all seen them. The little brats seem to get everything they want and most of the adults close to them think they're little angels. Usually, their peers catch on before the adults do.

 

Its a shame they didn't have a 'Brat Camp' in the Jedi Order or else they could have singled out the ones who would turn...
I agree, Xanatos was probably not a bad child, maybe a greedy one but nobody but his age-mates could see that. It probably wasn't until his teen years that he started developing some sense of independence and thus, made him more vulnerable to experiences he was ready to handle (e.g. his father's death...)
There was probably love at the beginning between Xan and Qui-Gon but maybe never as close and Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon because Xanatos liked to keep some of his secrets (Granta, etc) from him. So 13 or 14 was where he began thinking more privately and independently.

 

Wow, I haven't been in here forever.

I guess I'll have to agree with all of you. I'm pretty sure Xan loved Qui-Gon; every child will love the person who takes care of them. I can imagine him being manipulative at a very young age, but not really consciously. It was probably more a will to get what he wanted, no matter how, without realising that he was betraying Qui-Gon's trust in him.

 

Welcome Katieelessar! I have to agree with you. I think it probably wasn't until his early teen years that Xan may have begun to show real signs of being bad to the bone. Then I think he would learn quickly how to mask that from Jinn.

Bad Indra! Ignoring Xan.

 

Xan would have been a Master of Manipulation (and yes, I meant to capitalize it! )

He would have been savvy enough to hide his true feelings fairly early on (teens I would say).

Also, is there going to be a challenge this month? Or have I, in my old age, forgotten that A) there is one and B) what it is?