Yaddle: A blow to Yoda's "uniqueness"?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by ticopuma, Sep 16, 2006.

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  1. Rebelhunter Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2006
    That would be awesome. =D=


    I didn't really think that much of her though. She was just a background charater in TPM and was killed off in the EU.
  2. Knight-8311 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 18, 2006
    star 1
    Yaddle isnt even that noticable in TPM the comic on her was pretty cool though.
  3. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    How does Yaddle demeen Yoda?
  4. Master_Shaitan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2004
    star 5
    Read through the thread.
  5. Darthdias Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2004
    star 3
    Count Dooku was a rebel, like Qui-Gon, and would not be on the Council. Besides, AotC states that Obi-Wan and Dooku had never met.

    I'd say replace Yaddle with Sifo-Dyas. Wasn't that guy supposed to be on the Council at this time? Correct me if I'm wrong, though.
  6. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    I believe Sifo was on the Council at one time, yes. I've sorta assumed it was before TPM, or not on the High Council, cause we see all of those guys in TPM, and they all have names IIRC.
  7. sonofcoruscant Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2006
    star 2
    Oh come one guys, who else is Yoda gonna get it on with? Give the guy a break!


    But no, I actually thought it was sort of cool. I liked that it was just another small piece of a mystery that we could not solve, as we still did not know much of anything about the race itself. In fact, I generally wish more things in Star Wars were still mysterious, it feels now like everything is too connected. No character or ship or event seems absent from any other part of the story.

    The Droids: Used to hang out with the heroes
    Chewbacca: Yup he was chilling with Yoda back in the day
    Millenium Falocon: We see it cruising in
    Bobba Fett: Came from Jango, identical to the clones

    I am not saying some of this was not good, but I am just starting to feel like the Star Wars Galaxy is a smaller place than it used to be for me.
  8. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    I did. Still doesn't qualify as I understand the definition.


    Sifo-Dyas was on the Council, as far was we know, prior to TPM. But had apparently stepped down prior to the Naboo invasion. One of the Masters who had been on the Council a year before TPM, had been killed during a mission. Thus he was replaced with Ki-Adi-Mundi.
  9. Master_Shaitan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2004
    star 5
    Yoda has always been a mysterious character. Its what made his character unique in the OT. And that would and still does carry through to the PT. Its what makes him such a good character. The idea that it doesnt matter what your background is or what you look like, you can still be a powerful individual. By putting in anotherof his species and having her on the council, it is undoubtably a blow to that. It means he is no longer unique. It suggests that he comes from a planet where there are a load of other "Yoda's". It reduces the mystery behind his character. Hell, i've said all this before.

    Im not saying Yaddle ruins Yoda's character. Im just saying that, depending on how strongly you feel, she demeens the uniques and essence of Yoda's character be it 1% or by 25%.
  10. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    So then what about all the human Jedi or the Zabrak Jedi or the others who have more than one of their species in the Jedi Order? You are an individual because of your personality. Not because of your race, gender or sex. Yoda is still unqiue because he is the oldest of the Jedi and the Grand Master. Yaddle was younger and only a Master.
  11. ticopuma Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2005
    star 5
    See but with the Zabrak, we KNOW they are a common species. With Yoda, we didn't know that. Having Yaddle theres takes away from his character. Obviously not to the point where it ruins him, but still has its negative effect.
  12. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    That would be a bit silly thinking that Yoda was a one-of-a-kind alien. We saw only one Hutt in the OT and then we see another in TPM. We saw one of Yoda's species in the OT and then we see another in the PT and another still, in a videogame.
  13. Master_Shaitan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2004
    star 5
    Yes, there is obviously more of Yoda's kind. But the point is, we don't need to see it. We don't want to think about that.

    Whether you watch the saga from I-VI or from OT-PT, part of the brilliance of Yoda's character is that you wouldn't expect someone who looks like him to be the most powerful Jedi. He has to be the opposite to what you might expect him to be. But what makes him especially unique is the idea that despite what may be percieved as flaws (size etc) he has made it to the top so to speak. This device works so much better when the person remains a complete individual. But if you stick in another of his species who is also a very powerful Jedi then he as a character loses that edge himself - his own uniqueness is reduced somewhat. Now, this kind of thing doesn't effect other characters because its not a large part of what "they are about". But its different for Yoda. His whole character was based on the idea that he is unique and on the theme that he seems like this insignificant being and yet is something much grander. So if we say added another Zabrak in the films that wouldn't take anything away from Darth Maul. His character is based on different themes. But with Yoda the main theme is what I have described above. And IMO Yaddle diminishes that somewhat. Not only by making Yoda less mysterious by giving more of an insight into his species but also by being yet another powerful being from wherever it is Yoda comes from. Another part of this comes down to the idea that the "hero" must respect these type of characters if they wish to succeed. It works so much better if Yoda appears to be one of a kind because should there be another of his species on the council, as we see with Yaddle, then that isn't going to have the same effect upon the hero. Having Yoda on his own, standing out like a sore thumb, will enhance that theme. What I mean is that the hero won't question this lowly looking character if there are two of them. If there is just one then he will question this character further and respect it more in the end (for being an individual, one of a kind, who is the most powerful Jedi).

    Whether this is a big thing or not comes down to personal preference. For me, it was hardly the end of Yoda. Im simply saying that, for me, Yaddle had only a negative influence on the saga for the reasons I stated above.

  14. StoneRiver Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 2004
    star 4
    I think it's incredible that throughout the saga we see only two members of yoda's race (anywhere) and yet somehow, they both manage to become members of the jedi high council.

    Now surely, if all of their species were so force adept wouldn't there be loads of em trained up?
  15. Knight-8311 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 18, 2006
    star 1
    maybe there arent lots of them...
  16. Darth_Davi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2005
    star 4
    you mean like the two Zabraks we see are both Force sensitive too? (Maul and the one on the Jedi Council in TPM who's name escapes me right now)

    I think we see two and not a hundred of them because only the two have any bearing on the story. Its like saying that just because we only see ETs in the Senate, that means that they are all politicians...The fact that we only see Yoda and Yaddle does not in any way imply that their species is any more likely to be force sensitive than any other species. It just means they chose to have two represented on screen, and not more.
  17. Rebelhunter Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2006
    I think the reason why people think its a blow too Yoda's charater is because we didn't know what Yoda's species is. Thats why we don't care that there is another Hutt. Because we already know what a Hutt is.
  18. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Darth Maul, Agen Kolar and Eeth Koth are the only Zabrak Force users in the films. The only difference is that Ray Park had shaved his head, which was part of Maul's design. Both Koth and Kolar had hair and of course, no tatoos. And as to the issue of all of Yoda's species being Force sensitive, I don't think all of them are at one time. Just certian ones like with the humans and other species. 900 years ago, Yoda was born as Force sensitive. 400 some years ago, Yaddle was born as a Force sensitive.

    Anyway, I still don't see anything that demeens his character.
  19. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    darth-sinister
    Posted:
    So then what about all the human Jedi or the Zabrak Jedi or the others who have more than one of their species in the Jedi Order? You are an individual because of your personality. Not because of your race, gender or sex. Yoda is still unqiue because he is the oldest of the Jedi and the Grand Master. Yaddle was younger and only a Master.

    I agree with this wholeheartedly.



    ticopuma
    Posted:

    See but with the Zabrak, we KNOW they are a common species. With Yoda, we didn't know that. Having Yaddle theres takes away from his character. Obviously not to the point where it ruins him, but still has its negative effect.



    darth-sinister
    Posted:
    That would be a bit silly thinking that Yoda was a one-of-a-kind alien. We saw only one Hutt in the OT and then we see another in TPM. We saw one of Yoda's species in the OT and then we see another in the PT and another still, in a videogame.




    I think what is annoying(for me), or what steals a little thunder is that Yoda's species is still unknown. Even after the introduction of Yaddle and the like, from the Knights of the Old Republic video game.








    I mean how can we have at least THREE OF THEM running around the StarWars Universe and NOT KNOW what they are?





    I think THAT is where Yoda looses his "uniqueness"...
    />/>/>
  20. Kwenn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2001
    star 5
    For me, it only adds to Yoda's story, especially now that we've got our six-part Saga.

    Think about it; throughout the first three Episodes, who is Yoda? He's the Grand Master of the Jedi Order; the wisest and most powerful of all the Jedi, able to go toe-to-toe with not only Dooku but Sidious himself in single combat, able to lead armies and fight the very heart of the dark side. Even after his defeat in the Senate Rotunda, he remains a true Jedi, planning for the future of the Order and the return of the Republic with Obi-Wan and Bail.

    The next time we see him, who do we meet? A half-crazed, ragged being living on rootleaf stew in a backwater swamp world, giggling away to himself and trying to steal Luke's lamp. This is not the wise creature who once inhabited the halls of the Jedi Temple, surely?

    Yoda's own ruse comes into play here, with which Yaddle's appearance in TPM helps. He makes Luke believe he is not Yoda until he is sure of Luke's dedication. Now, if Yoda had remained so unique throughout the Prequels, we, as an audience, would already have been familiar enough with him to spot his trickery straight away. But now we have two additional members of his species floating about in Star Wars lore - Yaddle and Vandar Tokare of KotOR fame. So, maybe this swamp-creature Luke meets is not Yoda after all, but yet another member of his species who will, true to his word, lead him to Yoda himself. Remember, thanks to the removal of the "Yoda's arrival on Dagobah" scene from RotS, we have no idea where Yoda exiled himself following that film...could he have returned to his homeworld? Perhaps he is now living amongst his own people? A reasonable assumption given Luke remains with his family and Bail takes Leia to his homeworld.

    So for me, more members of the species only helps strengthen the ruse of the little frog sitting on the side of the road. Now both Luke and the audience remain unsure as to whether this is really Yoda or not, even after watching three films' worth of his exploits beforehand.
  21. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    A lot of that doesn't matter Kwenn, because Kenobi's ghost already tells us who Skywalker is going to meet there on Dagobah.

    ***


    But to answer this topic, yes. By definition alone, Yaddle is a blow to Yoda's "uniqueness".




    u·nique

    ADJECTIVE:

    Being the only one of its kind.

    Yoda's uniqueness has been diminished (quite-simply) when Lucas allowed the introduction of multiple "little-green-friends-from-an-unknown-species" into the Star Wars Universe.



    Yes, Yoda retains his "quirky-individuality" but the mystique surrounding his character isn't what is once was.





  22. Kwenn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2001
    star 5


    Yes, I'm fully aware of that. We know Luke is going to meet Yoda. We also learn this strange creature, who bears naught but an aesthetic resemblance to the Grand Master, is going to lead student to master. What's to say Dagobah can't be misconscrued a planet full of Yoda's species?
  23. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6



    With that line of reasoning:


    Then a gazillion Rancors must be running buck-wild on the sand-dunes of Tattooine... [face_laugh]



  24. morpha2 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2005
    star 3
    Yaddle never bothered me much at all, but it would seem that Lucas worked as hard as possible to diminish the mystique and uniqueness of almost every peripheral character from the OT. Witness Jango/Boba Fett, Jabba, Chewbacca, even the Millenium Falcon.
  25. Kwenn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2001
    star 5

    With that line of reasoning:


    Then a gazillion Rancors must be running buck-wild on the sand-dunes of Tattooine... [face_laugh] [/b] [/quote]

    :rolleyes:

    Not the same thing. Jabba's rancor didn't try to pass itself off as someone else. Yoda did; he's pretending to be another member of his species, someone who isn't the wise Jedi Master. For that to work in light of the PT, it helps if the audience has seen other "Yodas" in the Galaxy. And yes, obviously, Dagobah isn't Yoda's homeworld, but we, the audience, wouldn't know that upon first arriving there.

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