Yaddle: A blow to Yoda's "uniqueness"?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by ticopuma, Sep 16, 2006.

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  1. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    No, that's Dathomir. ;) There are a gazillion Bantha's on Tatooine. :p
  2. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    To strike an analogy:

    The presence and function of Yaddle is akin to Superman surviving the destruction of Krypton with a little sister in his spacecraft. It dilutes the romantic element of Superman being the only known survivor of Krypton just as Yaddle dilutes the romantic element of Yoda being the only depicted being of his species. Now, yes, in Superman's case, it just so happens that various other people survive in different incarnations -- but can you imagine if Superman and the audience knew all about that? He is meant to be the only one. And in Superman's case, we actually know where he originally comes from. But Yoda? He's meant to be an enigma. Having someone else in the same six-part saga, whether it be hours or seconds, tarnishes that. Yaddle smacks of Silver Age craziness.
  3. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6

    BRILLIANT!!! That, Cryogenic... was right on point!!

    ***

    Hey Sinister!!



    Thanks for fixing my joke!!! =D=














    (just glad somebody got it);)
  4. Darth_Davi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2005
    star 4
    The analogy is flawed. Yoda is NEVER described as being the last of his kind, like Superman is. Being the sole survivor of Krypton...well, other than the Eradicator, General Zod, Ursa, and Non) is one of the key storylines for Superman. The analogy might hold water for me, if somewhere in Star Wars, Yoda claimed to be the only one of his kind, and then we find out later that he wasn't. But, in the OT, we didn't see any other members of Yoda's species for the simple fact that the plot didn't require it. We also didn't see any other Wookiees besides Chewbacca. We didn't see any other Hutts other than Jabba. We also didn't see any other bounty hunters in Mandalorian armor. We didn't see any other Trandoshans than Boskk...What makes Yoda special in the OT wasn't his species, it was that he was the last known Jedi Master. Its not George Lucas's fault that you erroneously assumed that Yoda was the only one of his kind in the entire galaxy...Lucas never made that claim, no characters in Star Wars ever made that claim. Its not claimed in any official EU source that I know of either (if someone knows of some official EU source that does claim Yoda's species is extinct, let me know) Just because you made some false assumptions about Yoda doesn't take away from his being Yoda.
  5. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Supergirl/Kara Zor-El is Superman's cousin, not sister. Kal-El was an only child. Krypto is from an Earth created by Brainiac 13 and not quite a true Kryptonian, but similar. There's the Phantom Zone villians, Kandor which has some Kryptonians in it and the young boy who will be starring in the upcoming Richard Donner and Geoff Johns run on Action Comics. Plus, the late Kon-El/Conner Kent/Superboy who was half a clone of Superman. Plus, Power Girl who is the Kara Zor-L from the now gone Earth-2. And Superboy-Prime, from Earth-Prime. But I digress.

    As noted, it was never made clear that Yoda was the last of his kind in the OT. He was just the only one we saw. We didn't see others due to the limited budget regarding puppets and animatronic masks. Lucas only did Yoda because it would be difficult making him believeable to the audience, which in part came from his height. It should've been plainly obvious that not only would we see Yoda in the PT, but that we could see more of his species and maybe get a name. We got one out of two.
  6. AvaVisarra Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 2006
    star 3
    I have to say that I think adding Yaddle was actually a good move on Lucas' part (or whomever came up with the idea). Yaddle detracts nothing from the mystery that is yoda. Her existence shows that there isn't just one Yoda out there, that he isn't just some random anomaly or some mix-breed creation like Rystall from ROTJ.
    Before Yaddle's existence, I never really wondered to deeply about Yoda's past and his origins. I accepted the mystery behind this old wise being, it didnt hold anything really against me except mild curiosity, but now with Yaddle's addition to the mix, i want to know more. I want to know where they come from, what their species is called, why are they so reclusive and how they stayed that way so long. It took my curiousity and turned it into a fascination, something I want to know and would love to find out about.
  7. Lord_Pilaf Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 9, 2006
    star 1
    Yoda is a unique character because of his character. His personality, wisdom and abilities make him Yoda, not his genetics. "Luminous beings are we. Not this crude matter."
  8. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Uniqueness or not, Yaddle certainly does not demeen him.
  9. Master_Shaitan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2004
    star 5
    IYO.

    She does in my eyes, not in a big way, nevertheless....

    Stop trying to come across as if what you are saying is abolsute. It isnt on matters such as these sin. I dont want to have to speak out like this but you have made about four comments in this thread making such statements as above. Its hardly helpful and boardering on derailing.

    Re-post:

    Whether you watch the saga from I-VI or from OT-PT, part of the brilliance of Yoda's character is that you wouldn't expect someone who looks like him to be the most powerful Jedi. He has to be the opposite to what you might expect him to be. But what makes him especially unique is the idea that despite what may be percieved as flaws (size etc) he has made it to the top so to speak. This device works so much better when the person remains a complete individual. But if you stick in another of his species who is also a very powerful Jedi then he as a character loses that edge himself - his own uniqueness is reduced somewhat. Now, this kind of thing doesn't effect other characters because its not a large part of what "they are about". But its different for Yoda. His whole character was based on the idea that he is unique and on the theme that he seems like this insignificant being and yet is something much grander. So if we say added another Zabrak in the films that wouldn't take anything away from Darth Maul. His character is based on different themes. But with Yoda the main theme is what I have described above. And IMO Yaddle diminishes that somewhat. Not only by making Yoda less mysterious by giving more of an insight into his species but also by being yet another powerful being from wherever it is Yoda comes from. Another part of this comes down to the idea that the "hero" must respect these type of characters if they wish to succeed. It works so much better if Yoda appears to be one of a kind because should there be another of his species on the council, as we see with Yaddle, then that isn't going to have the same effect upon the hero. Having Yoda on his own, standing out like a sore thumb, will enhance that theme. What I mean is that the hero won't question this lowly looking character if there are two of them. If there is just one then he will question this character further and respect it more in the end (for being an individual, one of a kind, who is the most powerful Jedi).

    Whether this is a big thing or not comes down to personal preference. For me, it was hardly the end of Yoda. Im simply saying that, for me, Yaddle had only a negative influence on the saga for the reasons I stated above.
  10. Darth_Davi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2005
    star 4
    But Yoda is only unique because you want him to be. I am still waiting for anyone to point to absolutely any evidence from any of the movies where it is suggested that Yoda is the only one of his kind. You are basing your entire argument on a false assumption. You say that Luke wouldn't question his lowly individualness if he had seen two of them...but, Luke spent most of his life on Tattooine, and has only been exposed to different alien races for what, 5 years? (other than the few aliens he may have encountered in Anchorhead or Mos Eisley) The Galaxy is HUGE, even in the Bloodlines time, there are probably a million different kinds of species that Luke hasn't run into yet...that Yoda was the first of his kind that Luke had ever seen isn't strange at all...its a huge galaxy.

    so, in a nutshell:
    Nobody in Star Wars ever claims Yoda is the only one of his kind. To assume he is is nobody's fault but yours.

    There are millions of species that Luke hasn't seen yet. It shouldn't be surprising that Luke had never ran into his species before.

    Yoda is still unique, as the only living Jedi Master.

  11. Master_Shaitan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2004
    star 5
    Im not saying that he is the only one of his kind (of course he isnt after seeing yaddle). thats always been the case. There is alsways more than one being in a species. But thats is amoot. The fact is we don't need to see or hear about it. Its not something a run of the mill viewer would even wonder about. But on top of that, its the fact that Yaddle is another very powerful Jedi, sitting in Yoda's domain that makes this a real issue.

    No - I think you will find I said "the hero" wouldnt question Yoda's character. I dont know what aliens Anakin or Luke encountered before they met Yoda. probably very few. But the point is, Yoda is a very small, insignificant looking being. On his own you would question him more. But stick another one of his kind in the council and that qyuestioning will be reduced.

    Im not disputing that. Im simply saying one of Yoda's main themes as a character was the fact that you question his identity - "this guys a Jedi master?! Yeah right?!". Sttick another one of his kind amongst him and the ohter council members and that uniqueness is taken away to some extent.

    Except I dont cliam that.

    Its not about what species he is per se. Its about his appearance and how that is connected to his role as a Jedi Master. There is a lesson in there to learn about the Jedi -that its a metaphorical thing rather than a physical thing. Thats Yoda's theme. Thats what he teaches us and the hero - dont judge a book by its cover. Respect all life etc. Lukes meeting with Yoda is different. But both have to end up respecting Yoda as a Jedi Master. Stick anothe rof his species in there and that pathway to respect is shortened. Take Anakins case for example. In TPM he and hopefully the new audience would question such a being, of size and appearance, as being what appears to be the ultimate Jedi Master. This is increased if he is there alone. If he stands out. However, stick Yaddle in there and that idea is reduced.
  12. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    All I'm saying is that there is no way that I can see that Yaddle demeens him. He may not be as unique as before, but I do not see where demeening comes in.
  13. Master_Shaitan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2004
    star 5
    In the sense that his worth of character was reduced somewhat.
  14. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    If you want to get that technical, then the entire Jedi Council reduces his worth, because he's no longer the Jedi Master of the OT. The hero can argue with all of them. Look I'm not trying to be rude. I'm just trying to understand how having two of the same species on the Council demeens Yoda. Uniqueness in terms of being the only one of his kind, I can understand. But demeening is what I'm trying to understand. I'm curious.
  15. Master_Shaitan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2004
    star 5
    Demeans a theme behind his character. Thats my point. I really don't want to have to try and explain myself again. It's pretty pointless. If you don't feel this way - great. If you do -lets all hold hands and sing the Yub Yub Song. Shaitan Out.
  16. __Vader__ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 3
    I don't have a problem with Yoda's species showing up in other places. What I do have a problem with is that they are portrayed with more species variation than most other aliens from the star wars universe.

    At first we thought that they are all green.

    Yoda - Green
    Yaddle - Green
    Vandar - Brown ...?!

    Then, we thought they all talk backward.

    Yoda - Backward
    Yaddle - No dialouge
    Vander - Perfectly normal speech ...?!

    Then, we thought they all had single names.

    Yoda - single word
    Yaddle - single word
    Vandar Tokare - He has a last name?! Then what is Yoda and Yaddle's last names?!

    So so far all we have discovered is that KOTOR was poorly researched and unless it is in a film it is not part of the Star Wars universe:p Which is not an idea i like to encourage being an EU fan... However there are other things still that annoy me...

    Yoda - Jedi Master
    Yaddle - Jedi Master
    Vandar - Jedi Master

    Wait a second... it could just be coincidence, but you don't pick three random members of a species and they're all Jedi Masters... So they have lots of other variation, but they're all Force sensitive? Okay, so a force sensitive species species is kind of cool, but ones that are all trained to Jedi Masters? Give me a break. So far, aside from obvious things like the force and hyperspace, star wars is perfectly within the realms of possibility. Therefore, we need to either see a non-jedi member of the species or have someone confirm that in fact, they are all Jedi. I demand a retcon to explain why there are so few and why they are all jedi. Luckily for all of us, GL has specifically told all the novelists, game developers, trading card producers, toy manufacturers etc. not to expore the mystery of Yodas species. (Take a look at the Yoda species Wikipedia entry for a picture of a topps trading card that *almost* went into production before it was stomped by Lucas at the last minute.) This is not the first time GL has said this. Remember he forbid anyone to touch the clone wars before he did AOTC? Afterwards, he basically said: Go for it. So what I predict will happen is that eventually the mystery of Yoda's species will be revealed. Lucas is just waiting for the right time and method to do so.
  17. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    Oh, great. I knew SOMEONE just had to skew my analogy beyond recognition.

    I never assumed that Yoda was the last of his kind. But the mysticism is diminished when others of his kind appear, as appear they do in TPM. Yoda is meant to be a mystery character, and while much of that mystery is preserved over the course of six films, having a female version of his species dampens things. Like having two cherries on a bakewell tart instead of one, some things just aren't meant to be. Aesthetically, as far as the mythology of Yoda goes, it's just not the same when other people crash the party. Shaitan really hit the nail on the head -- the major issue isn't so much Yaddle, but her function: she sits on the Jedi Council! If we'd been shown some other members of Yoda's species, perhaps in menial roles throughout the galaxy, I think I'd have accepted that more. Who knows? Of course, when Obi Wan and Anakin join the Council, there are, with Mace, three human members out of twelve, which also seems like a ridiculous figure, but at least that's a better reflection of the galaxy, considering how many other humans we're shown. But Yaddle? Nope. I, Shaitan and others just think she's a bad idea -- through and through.
  18. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Well, you could say Yoda's full name is Minch Yoda or Yoda Minch.
  19. __Vader__ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 3
    Really? Where is that said?
  20. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Tales. It's non-canon, but it is a name if you choose to accept it. :p
  21. __Vader__ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 3
    Cool, I never knew. Minch Yoda it is.
  22. anakin2lordvader Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2003
    I don't think Yaddle took way any of Yoda's uniqueness.... in fact I think had Yaddle of had a one on one conversation with Yoda it might have added even more to Yoda's uniqueness.
  23. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9

    Minch was the original name for Yoda.
  24. ANAKINSKYWEEZER Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2003
    star 3
    It's just funny to imagine "Minch" being part of Yoda's name.
  25. __Vader__ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 3
    Yeah I just can't help but think: Munchkin lol
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