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Yeah, right....

Discussion in 'Literature' started by neimoidian_85, Jun 27, 2001.

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  1. neimoidian_85

    neimoidian_85 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 1999
    This board has seemed to have just died. All this negative crap drives me nuts.

    Alan Dean Foster-worst SW author ever?

    Yeah, he wrote the second EU book ever concieved. He had a LOT to work with. Its sure his fault SotME was bad. WHEW.


    Then we have the Ban Barbara Hambly thread.
    WHY? You can hate her, you can say how much you hate her, but why ban her? Face it 50% of the people who hate her hate her because of a big bandwagon I think of as "GO ZAHN, GO STACKPOLE, KILL KJA, KILL HAMBLY!" Why would you have any right whatsoever saying that an author should be banned from the Star Wars continuum because of your opinions? Face it, her books weren't that bad. They may have been a bit slow but they weren't thee worst.

    Now I'm not saying for people to stop being opinionated. Just don't go over the edge.
     
  2. Amidala Starkiller

    Amidala Starkiller Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 11, 1999
    Let's face it

    Lit's been slipping lately
     
  3. leif

    leif Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 1999
    i'll have to second neimoidian_85's thoughts. especially since i thought SOTP and VOTF were snorers.

    there are some definate swfans in here with hostility problems who want the authors to read there minds and write exactly what they specifically want to read.

    maybe the forum should pass out sedatives before a user is allowed to login and post.
     
  4. I-poodoo

    I-poodoo Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 1, 2001
    I agree whole-heartedly, Neimoidian, especially becuz I liked SotME.
    Some people's intolerance has been bordering on the same level as the Vong lately. Sheesh.
     
  5. Danamel99

    Danamel99 Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2001
    I think this general negativity vibe is the main reason we are seeing fewer and fewer posts worth really discussing. Who wants to post his/her original idea and then be ridiculed or flamed after? I hate it when I post my thoughts and then someone immediately follows with a, "NO YOUR WRONG AND STUPID AND I ALONE AM CORRECT!" style post. However, I welcome posts like, "Gee, there's a thought, however I think...." I think that is truly the whole basis of a discussion forum. To discus...not argue!
     
  6. Jedi Bib

    Jedi Bib Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 16, 2000
    I agree as well. I think it's the duty of the admins to keep everything on the up and up. DL? Gath? Where are you?
     
  7. suncrusherX

    suncrusherX Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    I hate stupid threads like this...whoops just joking. I think there is an immature trend throughout the entire internet that comes from today's society.
     
  8. episodenone

    episodenone Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 13, 2001
    i simply ignore any comments by flamers.
    it isn't any better when you type up a theory and people simply say "that doesn't happen" [end post]
    um, thanks for the feedback?

    i also avoid threads that are full of garbage posts.
    not always easy, but it works for me.

    people do seem to forget that any speculation on these sites is just that -- SPECULATION!!!

    why not just enjoy it?!?!?!
     
  9. Ben_Solo

    Ben_Solo Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2001
    Ok people, first let me tell you that I belong to a community thats main purpose is to help people let off steam about aspects of the EU they hate. Unless you are all stupid and think that the whole world loves every book in the EU. People need to be allowed to air their hate.
     
  10. Fire_Ice_Death

    Fire_Ice_Death Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2001
    Well said Ben. :D though we're not really a community, moreorless people who nitpick. LoL
     
  11. Fire_Ice_Death

    Fire_Ice_Death Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2001
    Also alittle negativity isn't bad. It's good for the soul and makes you a balanced person. I hate Zahn and the Chiss and Mara Jade. It's not bad, but if you are one of those people "Ohh I like every aspect of the EU" you're either lying, haven't read it or you had a lobotomy.
     
  12. barnsthefatjedi

    barnsthefatjedi Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2001
    I emphatically refute these claims that negative discussion is bad for the boards and is in some way 'damaging' it. What is wrong with sensible criticism? Why should we only discuss things that we like? Why should we pretend that the EU is perfect and there are no flaws in it? Why should we avoid negative subjects that generate productive debate?

    Just because the subject may be negative, in no way shape or form does that mean that the ensuing discussion has a negative effect on the boards. Infact, it can generate intelligent discussion where weaknesses are cited in an authors work and better alternatives are discussed.

    It's not about hating the author as a person(though some may say so as a flippant remark, where it is obvious that they don't really hate the author), it's about hating their work, which is the person's perogative.

    If people are offended by someone who points out all the weaknesses in their favorite book or character, then they have no right to be so. Obviously they are welcome to defend their book/character, but to be offended by just because somebody disagrees with them is irrational and unfair on the other person.

    Now, I agree that there is a right way and a wrong way about going about expressing such hatred (the term 'hatred', as always, is used loosely), but assuming that those who criticise do not troll, flame, or disrespect anothers opinion, there is nothing wrong with the principle of expressing their displeasure for a book/character.

    I agree that flaming and trolling are bad and should not be tollerated, but to suggest that discussion of a negative nature is somehow wrong and damaging, I for one find mildly insulting. Everyone is welcome to voice their opinion, be it a positive or a negative one.
     
  13. Genghis12

    Genghis12 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 18, 1999
    That's all well and good Barns - but, "banning Barbara Hambley" is not a sensible discussion in any sense of the word.
     
  14. Ben_Solo

    Ben_Solo Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2001
    Well said barns and F_I_D, and who the hell is Barbara Hambley anyway?
     
  15. Fire_Ice_Death

    Fire_Ice_Death Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2001
    Barbara Hambly wrote Planet of Twilight(I think) and something else in SW.
     
  16. barnsthefatjedi

    barnsthefatjedi Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2001
    In what way is it any less sensible than 'Isn't Zahn the best!', for example. The only difference is that one is positive and one is negative.

    I haven't read all the posts in that thread, and if the person criticising is flaming or trolling, then that is what you really have a problem with, not the fact that he doesn't like Barbara Hambley's work. Maybe he attacked Hambly personally, which I do not agree with but nemoidian_85 who created the thread said:

    'All this negative crap drives me nuts'

    I may consider this a form of trolling as it suggests that those of us who like to discuss negative aspects are the EU are automatically speaking crap and are wrong. Anyway, that comment is an attack on negative discussion; not trolling or flaming, but the very principle of criticism.
     
  17. Wedge 88

    Wedge 88 Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 16, 1999
    When I hate stuff, I don't get made over it and yell and crap, I make fun of it. Much more fun that way.

    And I have nothing against Mr. Foster. I loved the ANH novelization. SotME was weird compared to other novels, and the characters were a little off. But, when I remember when he wrote it, I reallt enjoy it. Looking at it that way you can see a lot of similarties to the rest of the EU.

    I don't hate Hambly. Her plot ideas were great. I just am not used to her way of writing. I have never bashed her or any of the authors. And I salute anyone who stands up for her and her writings because they enjoy them.
     
  18. barnsthefatjedi

    barnsthefatjedi Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2001
    And I salute anyone with the guts to admit that they think she is a crap writer.
     
  19. Tahiri_2

    Tahiri_2 Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 20, 2001
    I dotn mind people saying they didnt liek something but saying it was bad. No books are bad.
     
  20. darthjarjarbinks

    darthjarjarbinks Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2000
    I think this is the problem here.

    People sometimes tend to inadvertantly express their own opinion as though it were the expression of a universal fact.

    So many arguments of a destructive and unproductive nature could be avoided if, instead of writing...

    "KJA sucks" or "CotJ was absolute crap"

    people should just take that small effort to reaffirm that this is solely their opinion, and leave their opinion totally open to discussion with comments like...

    "I personally disagree with KJA's whole take the the GFFA." and "IMHO, Children of the Jedi was bad because (reasons)"

    When people disagree the statements presented with the first two options, they tend to disagree with a lot of agression because they feel their favourite author has just been bashed for no reason.

    When people disagree with the arguments presented in the second two options, they are more likely to get involved in a decent discussion on the pros and cons of that novel/author.

    Its not too hard folks. And I KNOW that a lot of you really don't mean to get these fights and bad discussions started, its more often than not just a problem in communication.

    I'm sure I've done it myself. In fact I think Neimoidian-85 can attest to the fact that both him an I have done it to one another on an occasion
     
  21. neimoidian_85

    neimoidian_85 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 1999
    I have an idea....

    From now on when someone has a over the edge negative opinion, start it out with

    IN MY OPINION.............
     
  22. darthjarjarbinks

    darthjarjarbinks Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2000
    dude- read my post! jeeeeez. [face_clown]
     
  23. ryanof1

    ryanof1 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2000
    Who says it's going downhill? I make one post, and people say it's going downhill. Sheesh.
     
  24. eaglejedi

    eaglejedi Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 2, 2001
    Actually, although saying "I'm right, you're stupid and wrong" is well, a flame anyway, simply posting a point of view without saying "I think" or "I personally feel..." is just good debating/essay-writing strategy. When you post something, the readers already know it's your point of view; you don't have to explain that to them. In a debate, or an essay, you are trying to gently persuade the other side, or the undecided citizen, that you are correct, and saying "I think," "I feel," or "It's my opinion" weakens your argument. While for some it may feel odd or hostile if people don't say that, just realize they all sincerely believe they're right, and are all trying to convince each other of that...
    The Jedi Master will now cease rambling.
     
  25. The Gatherer

    The Gatherer Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 2, 1999
    Yes, I agree lit lost a little bit of its magic, I noticed this when I got back from my holiday's 5 weeks ago. Let's try and get it back to the good old days.

    Great discussion, intelligent debate.
     
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