PT Yin and Yang in Attack Of The Clones

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Samnz, Sep 6, 2012.

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  1. Samnz Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 2
    Someone once noted on the old bords that there would be a Yin/Yang-symbol visible on the sky in Attack Of The Clones . Unfortunately, I can't find it myself.

    Could somebody perhaps post a screenshot, please?
    That would be nice.
  2. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Right at the start of this scene:

    EXTERIOR: NABOO LAKE RETREAT, LODGE, BALCONY OVERLOOKING GARDENS - MORNING

    ANAKIN is on the balcony overlooking the gardens. After a moment, PADMÉ comes onto the balcony behind him. She sees he is meditating and turns to go.

    ANAKIN: (eyes closed) Don't go.

    PADMÉ: I don't want to disturb you.

    ANAKIN: Your presence is soothing.

    Brief pause.

    PADMÉ: You had a nightmare again last night.

    ANAKIN: Jedi don't have nightmares.

    PADMÉ: I heard you.
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Sep 6, 2012
    Samnz likes this.
  3. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
  4. StampidHD280pro Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2005
    star 4
    Hehe. It was me who found that. I'm awesome. And I watch these movies more than anybody SHOULD.
    Samnz likes this.
  5. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    We're all guilty of the same crime! And I am guilty of an additional one:

    Posting here after I said I wouldn't. Not super-enthused with this new layout -- I miss the colours and formatting of the old board, especially the font, font size, and text spacing -- but the damn films are too seductive to NOT wanna talk about.

    I would be a very happy bunny if something could be done about the text to make it go back to the way it used to be. Oddly, there is such a thing as TOO big. The old board had it all perfect. Now the screen is more cluttered and the whole thing comes off as somewhat inefficient: both a practical pain and a bit of an eyesore. It's literally fatiguing. And such beautiful colour schemes and banners were the norm before. Is any of this basic stuff coming back? *sigh*

    But again, here I am. Might as well stop whining for a second and add to this discussion. "Yin and yang" mean different things, but apparently, where place names go, "yang" (pronounced "yong") tends to mean "in the sun", and "yin" means "in the shade". You can then appreciate how this shot of the clouds -- which more or less occurs dead-centre of the entire prequel trilogy -- kind of sums up Anakin Skywalker's entire existence: not one of stillness, per se, but vaporous conflict and perpetual doubt.

    Pay attention to the chapter number of this scene, too. On the DVD, it's Chapter 25. Each prequel film, on DVD, is divided into 50 chapters each, so that makes this chapter the middle (well, okay, the transition from the 25th to the 26th is the exact numerical middle, but this one anticipates that transition). I have to think that George Lucas did that on purpose: very carefully, very cunningly. Just how exactingly done are these films? Well, from a certain POV...

    - George Lucas, Vanity Fair, January 11th 2005

    ^:)^ =D= 8-}
    Samnz likes this.
  6. obi-rob-kenobi4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2007
    star 4
    Admiral_Volshe and Frank T. like this.
  7. obi-rob-kenobi4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2007
    star 4

    I agree with you about this site but I wouldn't want to loose good posters like you. I do think we got lots of improvements as well I just want some of the old banners slaped over the new layout. I like the new featuers like how we have trophies and stuff now and better profile displays. And I love how we can now "like" peoples posts. Im still waighting for my little 4 stars symbol to come back under my name though, everyone else has theirs back but me! Is there a thread about this somewhere on here? I couldn't find one?

    BTW Excellent Lucas quote=D=
  8. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    Sometimes I wonder if things like that were done on purpose or if we are looking into it too much. Speaking of which, on the old boards, someone had links on its signature for three reviews of each prequel where the author draws many comparisons and symbolism in and between them. Does anyone have the links? I had them on my old PC, but unfortunately it's no longer available.
    Last edited by Alexrd, Sep 7, 2012
  9. obi-rob-kenobi4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2007
    star 4
    It couldn't be a coincidence. Someone had to create that with CGI. And it is placed exactly in the middle of the film in chapter 25. If you look at it you can see how all the clouds are perfectly shaped to make sure you know its supposed to be a circle with one black dot and one white dot.

    I also smell intentional irony in the fact that it is in the sky "clear as day" (get it?). Its defiantly a little of Lucas's sense of humor in there as well.

    I love it[face_love]@};-
  10. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    That doesn't prove it was intentional or that it wasn't a coincidence. It could very well be "just random clouds". In the end, it's all about belief. One could choose to believe that it was intentional (I can do that, and that quote from Lucas always helps) or that it was a coincidence. My point was, when does one draw the line between those?
  11. Samnz Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 2
    Thanks to all of you!
    I recently googled for Attack of The Clones and Yin/Yang and I found that on a religious (Christian) site, it fits the topic:
    As you said, it comes all down to believe and I don't think a line has to be drawn. If you want to see it, see and enjoy it. If you don't, enjoy something else.
    For example, I could imagine the six "balls" which Anakin and Papatine are watching in the opera stand for the six movies, because three are rather close to them (Prequel Films) and the other three are in the distance (Orignal Films). But it could be a coincidence as well.
    However, I'm quite sure the lighting of that scene (violet) it intentional as a merger of blue (Jedi) and red (Sith) as Anakin sees himself in the middle of them on his way to the dark side.
    Last edited by Samnz, Sep 7, 2012
  12. Samuel Vimes Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 3
    Quite interesting but I wonder how well this fits with the prophecy and if it is taken to mean, "All Sith must die."
    Sure killing all the Sith won't kill the Dark Side itself but it is curious that there can be light side users, ie Jedi but never any Dark Side users, ie Sith as that cause the Force to become unbalanced.

    So both sides of the Force can exist but mere mortals must only ever use the light side, to do otherwise would mean creating an imbalance in the Force.

    The Jedi and the Sith seem to want to kill each other and neither side can tolerate that the other is around.
    Perhaps that is what balance means in RotJ, Luke didn't try to kill the Sith, he reached out and made one sith come out of the darkness and into the light again.

    Bye for now.
    Old Stoneface
  13. obi-rob-kenobi4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2007
    star 4
    Lucas said of the Sith and the Prophecy that the Sith are a cancer and create unbalance because cancer eventually kills the host.

    Technically in the SW universe there can still be dark side users and dark jedi and the dark side itself but not real deal sith lords after the prophecy is fulfilled in ROTJ.

    Basically the Sith (the real deal sith exemplified in the films by palpatine and maybe maul) were a real bad fundamental corruption of life because of the greed and unwillingness to let life flow naturally with the universe. What with the whole trying to control everything and "trying to stop the suns from setting";)

    Its almost funny because when you think about how much thought people put into this whole philosophy Lucas is saying that (like the philosophy itself) its all best summed up and understood when taken simply. Wanna know what it all basically means? It simply all comes down to yin and yang. Balance. Harmony.@};-
    Last edited by obi-rob-kenobi4, Sep 7, 2012
  14. StampidHD280pro Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2005
    star 4
    If I told you what I found, you wouldn't believe your eyes. A careful inversion of the last shot of More American Graffiti with another of the first shot in A New Hope. Right in the middle of the R2 canyon scene. Now, it IS possible that it's intentional, but I think this time I've gone too far.
  15. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    Looking at it in terms of the prophecy, I think, works especially well if one approaches the Saga from a Buddhist angle rather than a Western philosophy emphasizing good or evil. I'll be generalizing quite a bit here and drawing from my very limited understanding of world religions, but I think the Force and the Prophecy can best be understood in terms of Buddhist concepts. When trying to look at it from a Western perspective of good/evil or heaven/hell, it doesn't seem to completely make sense that the Dark Side is a corruption of the Force or a cancer. In Western philosophy, one cannot exist without the other -- there is heaven and hell, sinners and the saved, god and the devil, etc. Buddhists take a different approach in that they see suffering in the world as being the result of lack of balance. An individual that is unbalanced will suffer -- anger, attachment, fear, lust greed--as he or she also causes others to suffer.

    In Buddhism, all suffering in the world can be linked to lack of balance. And it is an unbalanced individual who draws on the Dark Side. A Sith, then, is someone who fully gives into these emotions and does not attempt to rebalance. In this manner, they gain power over others but cause suffering, not only to others but themselves as well. But balance is harmony -- it is the way things should be, were the world not so "messy" and complicated.

    The Force is imbalanced, then, when it is drawn on by these highly unbalanced individuals themselves. To rebalance the Force, anger, fear, aggression, the "Dark Side" has to dissipate. Note, though, that the prophecy never says that the Sith must be "killed," only that they will be destroyed. I think the Jedi make a mistake in believing that killing the Sith is the only way to bring balance. As Luke demonstrates, he destroys one of the Sith when he turns his father back to the light. And then his father fulfills the prophecy by killing Palpatine in defense of his son. But nowhere does it state that the Sith must be killed, only that there destruction will bring the Force back into balance and thus end much of the suffering.
  16. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Just as in Taoism there are yang and yin. Technically, it is not the existence of the dark side of the Force itself which can be considered cancerous, but the growth out of bounds of the dark side as a manifestation of the imbalance in the Force. Lucas has consistently maintained that the Force in its "natural" state has two sides; one cannot exist without the other, and the dark side is a fundamental part of the Force. This is why he never said that the dark side was a cancer. Nor did he even specifically say that the Sith were a cancer, though that is a more easily defensible association; he characterized the interpersonal dynamic between the two Sith as a cancerous one.

    Balance, in this context, is between the light and dark sides of the Force. As such, it does not involve the complete dissipation of the dark side, just the dark side once more in balance with the light side and no longer enabled to grow unnaturally out of bounds. From the EU we can see that it takes more than just the existence of darksiders to unbalance the Force; though in hiding, the Sith order continued on secretly for many years without unbalancing the Force before the actions of Tenebrous' master started the imbalance. Later Plagueis and Sidious directly shifted the balance further. Thus, while it is fair to say that the Sith of the films ( represented primarily by Sidious ) pose a threat to the balance of the Force, such is not necessarily the case for other darksiders or even earlier Sith.
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Sep 7, 2012
  17. Admiral Volshe Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 8
    :confused: I don't understand where this happens? Even if you have gone too far, sounds cool .

    Maybe an obscure observations thread is in order. ;)
  18. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 5
    Where was that- interviews? The DVDs? Might be handy to have a cite for future debates.

    The EU character that most clearly voiced those views, as I recall, was Anakin Solo, to Vua Rapuung, in Edge of Victory: Conquest:

    page 234: "The Force is light and life, but it is also darkness. Both are necessary, but they have to be kept balance. In harmony."

    in The Unifying Force, however, Luke equates the dark side with evil, and says that it:

    p506
    "won't be eradicated until it has been discarded as an option for acquiring power, subjugating would-be opponents, or offsetting feelings of anger, envy or exclusion. Where victims of injustice exist, the dark side finds initiates."
  19. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    That and early pre-ANH scripts. But Lucas presented the terminology of the sides of the Force in the OT, and never was it said that the dark side could or should be destroyed. The revisionist insistence on a one-sided Force seeks to overwrite Lucas' own concept of the Force.

    "The idea of positive and negative, that there are two sides to an entity, a push and a pull, a yin and a yang, and the struggle between the two sides are issues of nature that I wanted to include in the film." - Annotated Screenplays

    "The Force has two sides. It is not a malevolent or a benevolent thing. It has a bad side to it, involving hate and fear, and it has a good side, involving love, charity, fairness and hope." - Time magazine 1980

    "I wanted to have this mythological footing because I was basing the films on the idea that the Force has two sides, the good side, the evil side, and they both need to be there. Most religions are built on that, whether it's called yin and yang, God and the devil — everything is built on the push-pull tension created by two sides of the equation. Right from the very beginning, that was the key issue in Star Wars." - Time magazine 2002
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Sep 7, 2012
  20. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    There are some nice improvements, yup.

    A sharp blow not to have all the previous posts intact at present, however -- on top of the other things I mentioned.

    I'll stay, I guess. But there's a bitter aftertaste lingering for now.

    And yes, that is a rather spiffy quote, isn't it?

    I only perceived the shape this time around, thanks to this thread.

    Before, when it was posted, I assumed it was there, but was frustrated because I couldn't see it.

    I guess I didn't realize it was staring me in the face, almost. RIGHT IN THE BLOODY CENTRE! (Of the SHOT *and* THE MOVIE!).

    How about...

    "Clouded this boy's future is..."

    ???

    :D


    The whole "suns from setting" gig is very poetic considering when we next see those setting suns:

    When Anakin is racing back to "save" his mother (as in your current avatar).

    And what about the shot that closes out ROTS and the PT? (It might be dawn in that shot; I can't recall).

    The message, in that sense, seems very much a "live and let live" philosophy that Lucas is sending out: don't hold back, don't stymie, don't oppress.

    And given that Yoda tells Luke, "Luminous beings are we", it is tempting, and perhaps right, to look at those suns as the duality within ourselves, and our dependence on each other. So, again, don't stifle, don't demean, don't control.

    That seems to be the key message in Star Wars. Learn when to let go and learn how to let go. Or, indeed, simply... let go.

    I think it's a good message to draw nourishment from. On anything we do, from running for political office, to making toast.

    That's right. The Sith exert an unnatural effect on the Force and essentially stop other people from achieving their own destiny; or those who haven't yet been schooled in how to follow their own bliss from discovering how. Leia has been taught the importance of democracy from a young age, and is naturally strong with the Force. Luke is yearning for adventure, and is, again, strong with the Force. Han is scraping by, and while he may not believe in the Force, he, too, may have some unusually strong ability with it, purely unconsciously. These people are able to resist the Empire; resist the corruption. But other beings may not be so fortunate while Vader and the Emperor are in town. So they have to fight and do what they can to overcome it. Help lift the wool over the eyes of others and allow for a fairer playing field. If that makes any sense. This corruption started with the Jedi and the Sith took it to the next level. The OT, then, and ROTJ in particular, are like some galactic reckoning, but where the characters intuit what they do, rather than be told they're galactic messiahs or that they're operating in myth.

    * * *

    But yeah, when you get right down to it, it's a rather simple message -- from a certain POV. Don't go mad with your own beliefs. Don't seek dominion over others. Don't encourage them to annihilate themselves. Don't annihilate yourself. But don't cling too strongly to anything, either. If you're over-exerting, you've probably gone too far. Stop and re-think. Fight for justice and equality, and seek dignity for yourself and others, but don't lose yourself along the way. Remember, in the end, and whenever you get grumpy, the universe is within you, and you within the universe. And so with everyone else. Therefore, take a step back and just relax, sometimes, because you can't control everything and you wouldn't be having fun if you could. Something like that, anyway.
  21. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    Anyone?
  22. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    I'm not sure if this is what you were looking for Alexrd, but it was what first sprang to mind:

    Bob Clark's analysis of AOTC: http://wondersinthedark.wordpress.com/2010/04/08/bob-strikes-back-at-attack-of-the-clones-naysayers/
    His breakdown of Duel of the Fates: https://wondersinthedark.wordpress.com/2012/02/11/notes-on-the-duel-of-the-fates/

    They were linked in Jedi_Ford_Prefect's signature.

    I don't think he ever did anything for ROTS, though, so I'm not sure if these are the links you're looking for.
  23. StampidHD280pro Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2005
    star 4
    "One o'clock, two o'clock, three o'clock, rock!" - Begins American Graffiti. I'm tellin ya, it's the prequel to the prequels.
  24. obi-rob-kenobi4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2007
    star 4
    Well your very close, its "One, two, three o'clock, four o'clock rock!" but Its still an awesome and very interesting observation.

    My theory is that the "Rock!" after four o'clock is when the death star blows up.

    Great observation!:eek:=D=
    Last edited by obi-rob-kenobi4, Sep 9, 2012
  25. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    Yes, they are. Thanks a lot. ;)
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