[YJCC] Moderator Coverage

Discussion in 'Communications' started by Dark_Lady_Jada, Sep 14, 2005.

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Moderators: JoinTheSchwarz, LAJ_FETT, Ramza
  1. Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 1999
    star 7
    But what are you supposed to do? Not allow any mods who don't post regularly in the JCC to vote on a new JCC mod?

    Hell, if I were dictator of the JC, I would probably try that. Seriously, I don't see the problem, since I don't think there really needs to be much of an MS dynamic between mods who aren't going to encounter one another much.

    Here's a plan. "If you haven't posted at least ten messages here in the last month, DON'T VOTE OR ELSE I WILL DEMOTE YOU!!"

    I think this is why they don't let me make decisions around here anymore.
  2. Raven Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 1998
    star 6
    You don't make decisions around here anymore because you left us! :_|
  3. rhonderoo Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2002
    star 9
    But we basically DO have a system where a mod that doesn't know a candidate or enough about said forums can abstain, and this normally happens. Users/candidates brought up by the mods in the forum where the mod is needed (in this case the mods from the JCC) are then evaluated based on any knowledge of that user (because they probably post more than in just said forum ;)), and the other mods give input. If a mod doesn't know the user or the forum they generally DO abstain, then a majority rules based on those that do. At least that's been my experience and we've brought in three new mods since I was modded. The newest JCC mod WAS a user on the JC that everyone in the JCC modsquad agreed with, otherwise he wouldn't have been brought forward to the mod squad.
  4. Alethia Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2005
    star 5
    First of all, thanks for clearing up my earlier question. That's how I thought it went, but wanted to make sure...

    And yes, *grins* let's all move to Bangledesh.

    The newest JCC mod WAS a user on the JC that everyone in the JCC modsquad agreed with, otherwise he wouldn't have been brought forward to the mod squad.

    For clarification- if, say, one JCC mod is against the candidate, but the other three are for the candidate, would they be elevated or not? Just wondering. And it is good to hear that a mod who is perhaps not so familiar with the user would abstain from voting.

    I think this is why they don't let me make decisions around here anymore.

    Heh.


    Anyway, back to the topic. It really is a hard thing to say, because even if someone is normally around at a specific time period, what happens if they move or their hours at work get switched around or something? Would that be grounds for them to demote themselves? If, say, you usually live in Iowa, but then move to Russia, and you were the mod for what is now the middle of the night for you- how would you deal with that?

    At the moment there are holes in the JCC at different times and it needs to be fixed, in my opinion. Getting a new mod would be easiest, one would think. And maybe that is the solution. But you can't control RL, really. There are all sorts of things that come up and you can't change. So promoting someone but then having them leave three months later or something also seems a bit pointless as well...
  5. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    At the moment there are holes in the JCC at different times and it needs to be fixed, in my opinion.

    Aside from overnight board time, at what times do you see coverage gaps?
  6. rhonderoo Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2002
    star 9
    Anyway, back to the topic. It really is a hard thing to say, because even if someone is normally around at a specific time period, what happens if they move or their hours at work get switched around or something? Would that be grounds for them to demote themselves? If, say, you usually live in Iowa, but then move to Russia, and you were the mod for what is now the middle of the night for you- how would you deal with that?

    The head admin is pretty good about being upfront in regards to being realistic on what you can do if your circumstances change and how much time you'll be able to dedicate to the forum, it's for the benefit of the forum, after all, not the mod (mostly). If the situation calls for it, things are arranged differently, like me taking on ROTS as part of my duties, because Ousley needed more time for school. If not, then based on amount of coverage, and input from the mod themselves, a decision is made about what is best for that particular forum.
  7. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 7
    For clarification- if, say, one JCC mod is against the candidate, but the other three are for the candidate, would they be elevated or not? Just wondering. And it is good to hear that a mod who is perhaps not so familiar with the user would abstain from voting.

    It's rare that all JCC mods agree on the same candidate. Im my past experiences there were perhaps three outstanding candidates, and different JCC mods would have their own particular favourite. As far as I can recall, none of the JCC mods have ever been against a particular candidate in the past year or so.

    And remember, at any point in the mod selection process mods from other forums are more than welcome to suggest their own candidate for consideration. Furthermore, I've always advertised where possible openings in the MS and invited regular users to PM their suggestions for discussion.
  8. TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2001
    star 10
    and even if all JCC mods are unanimously for one candidate, there can be lengthy discussions about that candidate if a number of the other mods have objections. Which, in theory, is a good thing.
  9. Alethia Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2005
    star 5
    KW, it's a mixture of times...obviously the middle of the night (morning/early afternoon for me) and then sometimes when it's night for me (early afternoon for the boards).

    And thanks to the rest of you for clearing that all up for me. *smiles* It's been very interesting.
  10. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    The last vote there was one who at least one JCC mod was against. Further details are prohibited by my implant.

    OW, I'VE SAID TOO MUCH!!!!! I LOVE YOU INSECT OVERLORDS...

    EDIT:
    As an example (since this is the example I use most frequently), what would then prevent the Literature mods from elevating, say, Saint_of_Killers to the position of Literature mod when we had an opening? There are plenty of posters who may excel in one area and are not suitable for global consumption as moderators and Saint was a fairly outstanding poster in Lit. That's why the Mod Squad as a whole votes on the suitability of candidates.
  11. Grand_Admiral_Grant Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2004
    star 6
    Was it really necessary to post it like that? Kind of unnecessary to (indirectly) embarrass someone if you'd asked me.

    Secondly, IMHO this thread is derailing a bit, Jada (and others) have adressed something that IMHO opinion is something pretty serious. Until now I have seen only very few posts that have contributed something to reassure the worried users. The other posts were either pretty much ignoring it, stating it wasnt that bad or downright baiting. I dont think someone who puts so much time and efford into helping the mods out deserves this and should be taken a little more seriously.
  12. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    Spare me.

    The whole thread was started because people are settling back into routine as the school-year starts up again and the JCC becomes a) more active and people are b) taking their summer's end vacations. The responses have all pretty much been: "Hey, why don't we take a wait and see attitude on this since you've raised the complaints?" and the responses have either boiled down to "Sure." or "OMG!!!@ You're ignoring us! We want satisfaction RIGHT NOW or plz die, kthxbye."

    The territorialism and moderator voting HAS obscured the fact that this thread should have been closed many, many posts ago. But the decision was made to allow continued discussion of something which will continue to be monitored *anyways*.

    As for my post about the last election, can you determine who was mentioned in my post, considering I made it as vague as humanly possible? There was something posited that the any of the JCC mods hadn't been against any candidate in the past year, which was (in my recollection) a false statement. If I wanted JCC moderator election drama, the last election really wasn't the place for me to start...
  13. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    There was something posited that the any of the JCC mods hadn't been against any candidate in the past year, which was (in my recollection) a false statement.

    That was probably intended to say that there hadn't been any JCC moderators against any of the winning candidates, as opposed to how you interpreted it. Similarly, I suspect Grant thought you were referring to Kavic, which wasn't what you meant.

    Just to put everyone's mind at ease, nobody was against him as a candidate, and to my knowledge, no JCC moderator has been against any of the winning candidates this year.
  14. Dark_Lady_Jada Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2004
    star 5
    This thread should not be closed because:

    1) the problem still exists

    2) it is being swept under the rug

    No we are not saying OMG!!!11111 d0 5o/\/\37h?!/\/G n0w. Those of us who have seen this problem have presented it respectfully and have tried to redirect the thread back to the issue:

    THE YJCC HAS LONG PERIODS WHEN IT IS UNDER OR UNMODERATED

    Some former mods and current mods agree that a team of 5 moderators works better while some maintain it can be done with 3 to 4.

    Instead of taking a laissez fair attitude why not do something a bit more proactive?
  15. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    Because those of us who have been around a long time (or repromoted after being around a long time) have been around a long time.

    Dec '04 doesn't really give you the perspective of what the JCC is like right at the end of summer vacation (late-Aug -> mid-Sep), since this is your first time experiencing it. Believe me when I say that a) the traffic will dip sometime around early-Oct.

    The historical patterns of posting behavior haven't really changed much. It'd be like wondering why so many new people showed up in May of this year...
  16. Dark_Lady_Jada Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2004
    star 5
    dp4m - use the tools that have been bestowed upon you as a moderator and you will see that I have been here alot longer than December '04



    edit: markup fix
  17. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8

    THE YJCC HAS LONG PERIODS WHEN IT IS UNDER OR UNMODERATED


    Aside from overnight, I really don't see any consistent gaps. When the four of us are all active, I think we do a pretty good job of covering the place. If evidence can be shown that that's not true, even when the four of us are all around, that would be worth taking seriously and possibly doing something about.
  18. Dark_Lady_Jada Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2004
    star 5
    Knightwriter, I really do respect that you feel that way. But I observe it too often. And I've taken alt0233's advice and started keeping track of it.

    But my concern dates back to early July when I contacted Darth Sapient suggesting that a 5th moderator needed to be added. That is when you were repromoted ;)

    I know that I'm not the only user who feels this way and I have been approached by users who say that they feel not only is the YJCC unmoderated but so are other forums such as the EUF, SWC and WNU.

    I would like it if the MS could discuss the possibility of a Focus Group to discuss this problem. It seem this thread will not solve the issue because there are those that deny it is even an issue.

    edit: typo
  19. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    But my concern dates back to early July when I contacted Darth Sapient suggesting that a 5 moderator needed to be added. That is when you were repromoted

    Throughout July, there was unquestionably a big gap in the morning. I remember several occasions where hours went by without any JCC moderators logging on. Once I was promoted, that pretty much stopped, as I spent a lot of time throughout August posting in the mornings. That's still true a few days a week, though not on the days I have class. Ever since then, I don't believe there has been any regular gap at any time outside of the overnight hours.

    If some people expect a forum to have a moderator on 24/7, that's simply not realistic and never going to happen, and nor should we even try. To do it would require at least six to eight moderators, and that would quickly reach the point of diminishing returns. I suspect that people are seeing no JCC moderator on at various and inconsistent points throughout the week and are taking it to be a problem where none exists. I say again that I was essentially away from the JC for almost a week, and that my absence did leave some gaps. You say that the problem dates back to early July, but that's simply impossible, based on my posting history throughout August. I'm not aware of any other gap from the morning through the evening. Not having a moderator online for 15-25 minutes on occasion doesn't consistute a gap in my mind. If it does to others, that may be the root of the "problem".

    If there's a problem, it's a far more recent one than anything going back to July.


    It seem this thread will not solve the issue because there are those that deny it is even an issue.

    A focus group should be started based on the complaints or concerns of a significant number of vocal people (as was the case in Fan Fiction), which I don't see as being the case here.
  20. Grand_Admiral_Grant Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2004
    star 6
    So a few users addressing their concerns isnt enough? We should wait to see matters get worse and more users start to notice and complain?

    :confused:
  21. Dark_Lady_Jada Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2004
    star 5
    Just because you don't see the problem doesn't mean it doesn't exist. [As an aside, if Obiwan had taken Jocasta Nu at her word AOTC would be a totally different movie now wouldn't it?]

    What constitutes a significant number?

    How long does the thread have to grow until the MS will do something or at least discuss the situation? Does the length of the thread matter or is the validity of the concern and observation of users who are bold enough to step up and be willing to be baited and flamed to make a problem known enough criteria.
  22. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    So a few users addressing their conserns isnt enough? We should wait to see matter get worse and more users start to notice and complain?

    I amended that bit of my post, as you can now see.

    However, I'd like to say that if there truly were a problem, you'd see quite a few more people in here complaining about it than we've yet seen. If there is a problem (and I don't at all concede that there is), it's a minor one, and I believe it stems more from my temporary absence than anything else.

    That all four of us have posted at some point in this thread should call into question as to just how much of a problem there really is. At times in the past, there have been deadweight moderators who did virtually nothing, and contributed to genuine coverage gaps or increased workload on other moderators. I don't see that as being the case here, and all of us are genuinely interested and active right now. As it happens, our activity usually covers the majority of the day when we're all active.

    Hence why I don't see the need for a focus group or anything more than the discussion contained in this thread. If more people from the JCC (especially those who don't normally post in here and/or others who have long experience there) start complaining, you can bet I'll be the first in line to take heed of the concerns.

    I (and my fellow JCC moderators) simply don't see a noteworthy problem or gap in coverage right now. Jada says she's collecting evidence, and I believe that. My view is that the evidence will turn out to show isolated and inconsistent times when nobody is around, save the overnight hours (which may well be a problem, and yet that time is usually more quiet than any other time). I am listening, but at the moment, I'm disagreeing with what has been said.

    What constitutes a significant number?

    I'm not sure, but I think it needs to be more than the six who have chimed in (sometimes with just one post) with some kind of affirmation that there is a problem. Past problems have easily brought in a dozen or more people, and in a forum with so many regulars, I don't think that's too much to ask or expect.

    How long does the thread have to grow until the MS will do something or at least discuss the situation?

    We seem to be discussing it right here.
  23. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    As a note, I believe the spot KW filled was ALWAYS planned on being filled.

    What is "EUF?" Did you mean EUC (Expanded Universe Community)? If so, it'd be the first I've heard of anyone being upset Genghis hasn't been around as much due to evacuating his city... ;)

    EU Literature is one of the largest forums on the board. EU Community is slightly more trafficked (due to the nature of the posting in that forum). There are, respectively, 3 and 2 moderators for those fora. The last time we had a significant problem in EU Literature or EUC was... THE NJO IS A TRAIN!!! Which, of course, it is (but that's beyond the point). Oft times, it's not the coverage of the moderators which determines the problems in a forum, it's the users. Now please bear in mind, I'm not saying "OMG!!!1!1 HE BLAMED THE USERS!1!!!" I'm saying that a good 1% of the users can ruin it for the other 99%, if they choose to make trouble. See: 3SA. See: JCC. Right now -- RIGHT THIS VERY SECOND! -- people are back at college or at some other school and don't have terribly much to do. Sure, there are those of us who have no life and are long out of school and still come around here much of the time (see: dp4m and DarthSapient [but at least HE has kids, what's dp4m's excuse?]), but the vast majority of the ebb and flow of the posting comes from our school-based users who are no longer free on summer days to not have to post here.

    Midterms are up on deck in the not-too-distant future. Except posting to decrease.
    Thanksgiving break and Christmas break are coming up not too far away. Expect posting to decrease.
    People out of school last year are settling into their new jobs and will find bosses discourage folks from posting on the JC from work. Expect posting to decrease.

    None of this is new news. Lit dropped our oldest moderator (Raven) right before we have a three-book trilogy published over a span of a couple of months, followed by a nine-book series comprised of three trilogies over a couple of years with a Death Star book and some Coruscant Nights on the horizon. No one complains because they think we care about our forum and will promote if we need to.

    All folks are asking is that you give the JCC staff the same respect. Which most of you aren't, thus far.
  24. Grand_Admiral_Grant Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2004
    star 6
    Really?




    But it seems to me (unless Im misinterpreting their posts) that they think an extra mod wouldnt hurt.. [face_thinking]


    EDIT:

    first post:
  25. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    Yes, and in just about every post since then the staff has suggested a "wait and see" attitude only to be confronted with:

    "Instead of taking a laissez fair attitude why not do something a bit more proactive?"
    "I would like it if the MS could discuss the possibility of a Focus Group to discuss this problem. It seem this thread will not solve the issue because there are those that deny it is even an issue."

    etc.

    I don't mean to single Jada out, but I'm at work and feeling lazy about going back the few pages...
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