[YJCC] Politics in YJCC

This isn't my first point of call - YJCC mods have locked a number of threads that have 'gone Senate' and I thank them for that... but the number of anti- / pro-American threads is getting tiresome beyond belief.

According to the US media, America are the good guys. According to the media of the rest of the world, this couldn't be farther from the truth. JCers opinions are pretty much divided in the same way. Any discussion on the general subject is either an exchange of propagandist slogans (not something that belongs on a 'social' board, imo) or a semi-intelligent discussion with some evidence & reasoning to back up opinion (something that belongs in the senate).

Given that the same thing happens to each of these threads: people exchange slogans from their favourite news show for a few pages; then one or two people try to introduce things like evidence to refute the simplistic propaganda (of either 'side') that's being thrown around; then a mod locks & redirects to the Senate... why not just cut out the process completely & say 'no political threads' in YJCC?

 

typically we do - ie we avoid political debate in the JCC

However we do allow political discussion which wouldn't fit into the Senate - eg "Are you going to vote?".
Sadly (as you point out) these sorts of threads quickly get derailed and redirected to the Senate where politcal debate can occur in a controlled environment.

I'd prefer to try and let some discussion go (espeically if it raises awareness), and try and keep on top of things to ensure a discussion rather than debate.

I could go either way, as from a moderation stand point it's easier to lock the threads as soon as they are started - however it's sometimes good to have a reasonable level of "intelligent" discussion in the JCC.

 

Agreed. Let's all just bash Canada.

 

It seems like it's the same handful of people who derail threads with their political views. They should really be warned to stop, and then banned if they continue. I just don't need to read a religious debate in a thread asking if you masturbate (not that I read such filth).

Oh, and Ignant -- Canada's the only good legacy your crappy country has given the world.


(And now a couple s to indicate jokingness and dodge the ban.)

 

Malkie covered it pretty well, and I agree with him. Some political threads that aren't debates don't belong in the Senate, although some of these(and other threads as well) do evole/get derailed into debate, and that's typically around the time we redirect them to the Senate. We shouldn't ban all political threads in the JCC, it needs to be case by case.

 

The Senate was designed for serious debate, so one would think that unserious debate (ie: humourous debate) would live in JCC.

So factual debate isn't really the issue, imo. IT's the fact that everyone cracks up and gets feisty/hardcore and can't keep it funny. It's the tone of these threads that get them locked, not the content (which in many cases is quite solid regardless).

 

DarthAttorney posted on 5/6/05 8:13pm

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The Senate was designed for serious debate, so one would think that unserious debate (ie: humourous debate) would live in JCC.

So factual debate isn't really the issue, imo. IT's the fact that everyone cracks up and gets feisty/hardcore and can't keep it funny. It's the tone of these threads that get them locked, not the content (which in many cases is quite solid regardless).
[hr][/blockquote]

Sure, but many of the threads that have been appearing lately aren't humourous to begin with. As for those that start out with humorous intent, it's not long before earnest, mindless sloganism starts appearing and then - I know it's monumentally stupid, but I can't help it - I end up writing long-ass posts to challenge some of the blunt, pseudo-truisms that are bandied about. So I'm partly to blame for the 'problem' - but given that the knee-jerk reactions to such threads, including my own, always lead to the same, Senatesque grotesquery, why not nip them in the bud?

Anyhoo - I can see where you guys are coming from. I'll try not to be such a reta... dammit why can't we use that word anymore? I'll try to avoid threads that start going 'Senate'.

 

What it boils down to is that some people take some things wayyyyyyyyyy too seriously - I've been guilty of it myself. It's sometimes hard to remember to just step back, take a deep breath, and remember not to take everything (especially on a Star Wars message board) too seriously.

I think that the JCC mods have done a good job overall, as far as these kinds of threads go. They have to walk a fine line between encouraging intelligent discussion and not letting things get too serious.

 

I'm of the opinion that serious discussion should always be allowed and possibly even encouraged in the JCC, even if it takes on "Senate" tones (with a few exceptions).

The Senate was specifically designed for serious, thoughtful discussion, but it was never meant to be the only place for it, or to remove it from the JCC. Some people mistakenly believe that, and it's unfortunate. It's nothing more than a myth and a misunderstanding.

The catch is just that such discussion has to be well moderated, and members have to keep up their end of the deal by being responsible and keeping discussion appropriate. The actions of a few also shouldn't penalize everyone. If a few people keep interfering in heavier discussion, deal with them appropriately.

 

It shouldn't be banned, anymore than movie/tv/music discussions should be banned and redirected to Amphitheatre.

 

Sure, but many of the threads that have been appearing lately aren't humourous to begin with. The point is to know when you think is too serious and when is not.

This is a Star Wars website and sometimes we get little off with some threads. Still we can create serious threads and go into deeply ideas. The senate is a good place to posts and create serious issues.


I respect what you said about the threads, but just remember to relax, because there are here several backgrounds, ages and people around the world who see things different from each other. Sometimes we get into our own nerves when we get stuck about something when we can't agree.

 

"Sure, but many of the threads that have been appearing lately aren't humourous to begin with...."

I totally agree and I'm not encouraging everyone to take things flippantly all the time. But it's obvious that some people start wthreads with the intention of creating vigorous debate and some as not designed to be so vigorous. If the one's that get heated flare up, everyone should be able to recognise the intent of the thread and treat it accordingly.

What I'm saying is be more like me.

 

I don't think we can exclude the threads about politics completely. People must think about their positions or have eventual humour topics. I don't think, however, that anything new would be said there.

 

I thought the policy was also that threads about news articles are supposed to be kept in the JCC?

 

I'm of two minds on this. On the one hand, it's nice to have threads that are a bit more highbrow than the latest bit of poop humor or veiled/not-so-veiled innuendo, which get really tiresome. On the other hand, given the political atmosphere, at home and abroad, and the divisive nature of the current administration, these threads can get nasty very quickly.

What kills me is that people can't seem to make arguments without sniping at each other or making ridiculous generalizations about those with whom they disagree. That's asinine, and only leads to warnings, bans, and locked threads. As it stands, my opinion is that if people do not have the maturity to post in a political thread without taking a potshot at those with whom they disagree, we shouldn't make those threads available.

 

Typical mod response.

 

Can we start handing out bans to whomever starts posting about George W is the cause of all the problems. I mean really its just an asanine comment from someone without much thought going on.

I am not Republican it just bugs me to see someone with no intelligence go screaming about George W all the time.

 

As it stands, my opinion is that if people do not have the maturity to post in a political thread without taking a potshot at those with whom they disagree, we shouldn't make those threads available.

Unless it's just a select group of people who partake in that kind of behavior, in which case they should be dealt with, possibly be banning them from future threads of that nature.

 

If you ban W insults, ban Windy from saying "The Matrix is overatted."

Really, the only topic banne from YJCC should be SW...and even that has it's place now and then.

Not to brag, but emrely to show off, my first post in this thread is the answer.

 

ask-the-younglings posted on 5/6/05 3:58pm

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According to the US media, America are the good guys. According to the media of the rest of the world, this couldn't be farther from the truth. JCers opinions are pretty much divided in the same way. Any discussion on the general subject is either an exchange of propagandist slogans (not something that belongs on a 'social' board, imo) or a semi-intelligent discussion with some evidence & reasoning to back up opinion (something that belongs in the senate).[hr][/blockquote]

I agree completely. I'll admit, Americans do have their flaws, as do the rest of the world. If we Americans changed, would you? No. Try to come here and meet the people for yourself before you judge them. Just like in any war, there are good people and bad people on both sides, the same for every country. When you control the media, you control the mind, and if the media is biased about a certain group of people, then you will hate them.

This whole Anti/Pro American thing is just pointless in my opinion.

 

Relax Darth_Ignant

 

I'm nothing but relaxed, PatttttttttttttyBoBoBo.

 

I think what has been lost in all of the political rantings and ravings in the YJCC is the fact that the only time Ministry manages to produce a kickass album is when a Republican is in office.

Why is that relevent? Because there's ample room in YJCC for discussions relating to politics that are not suitable for posting in the Senate Floor.

Like the kickassiness of Ministry albums with respect to what political party happens to be in office at the time.

 

Genghis has a point. The last Ministry album pwned!

 

Al is better when he's angry.