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Oceania Yo Saddam - I'm callin' you out!

Discussion in 'Oceania Discussion Boards' started by run, Mar 17, 2003.

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  1. stinrab Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 5
    "There's an awful lot of oppressed people in the world for them to free after Iraq."

    You say that like it's a bad thing...


    Heh, God (the Christian one that is, I guess) forbid we actually free more people from brutal, murderous, oppressive regimes, eh?


    Personally, I think we should focus on Iraq for a while now though. We really need to make sure that we get everything running smoothly and ensure that the Iraqi people finally get the freedom they deserve.


    EDIT:
    I've had people tell me (including a member of this board) that Saddam hssein was actually a good leader, because he provided education and health for free, can you beelive

    Whatever fool(s) said that should have a look at this
  2. TheOzhaggis Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2000
    star 5

    I was pointing out that the Christian God doesn't take too kindly to people who worship other Gods ("I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God..you shall not worship them" etc) - so I wouldn't expect him to be too worried about answering prayers calling for peace and harmony in a muslim society ...

    Just pointing out the futility of christian prayer as an option in the Iraq situation.

    That's all.


    (If anyone wants to disagree, please do so in a PM, or Shara will indeed have a fit. ta)
  3. HawkNC Former RSA: Oceania

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2001
    star 6
    I'm not saying that freeing people from oppression is a bad thing, but if that's what they're going to claim was their main aim in Iraq, they're going to be liberating nations for the next 50 years with all the people under totalitarian regimes. What happens when the US decides it wants to liberate North Korea? Like I said, it's great that people can live in freedom, but I'm just not sure if the US will go and remove dictatorships if there's absolutely nothing in it for them.
  4. MarvinTheMartian Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2002
    star 5
    But how does that explain NATO's action in Kosovo in 1999? There was nothing in it for no one by saving the Kosovars, who occupy a landlocked, mountainous region in the Balkans. (Which was in fact a violation of our precious 'International Law' by the way - it never went through the Security Council, because NATO knew that Russia would veto any action to help their Yugoslav allies)
  5. HawkNC Former RSA: Oceania

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2001
    star 6
    Yeah, but I said the US, not NATO. :p
  6. MarvinTheMartian Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2002
    star 5
    Yeah but the US founded NATO ;)

    What about Panama in 1989?
  7. stinrab Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 5
    And the US helped out in Kosovo as well. No UN approval there. What an outrage. Clearly, the Americans were going in there to plunder the Kosovo's resources of... uhm.... stuff!!
  8. TheOzhaggis Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2000
    star 5

    Saddam provided free education and health care?

    LOL

    That's why the schools were full of munitions, and the hospitals are desperate for basic supplies like penicillin ...

    And the schools that did actually have books, the books were all full of propaganda about ... guess who?

  9. HawkNC Former RSA: Oceania

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2001
    star 6
    I never claimed it was a good theory. I'm only an engineering student, and not very knowledgeable about such things. ;)
  10. MarvinTheMartian Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2002
    star 5
    And the US helped out in Kosovo as well. No UN approval there. What an outrage. Clearly, the Americans were going in there to plunder the Kosovo's resources of... uhm.... stuff!!

    They scoured the land for ladies' head shawls, and took some kids bicycles. How rude! Oh and they stole some shampoos from the belgrade hotel.
  11. TheOzhaggis Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2000
    star 5

    HumanShield Woman: "The human shield program was a complete success! Not one structure that was being guarded by a human shield was damaged during the war!"

    LOL


    Maybe something to do with the fact that the human shields ran out of Baghdad like screaming children as soon as the attack began ?


    "Alpha Bravo Charlie - commence bombing run."
    "Look, Sir! There's a pasty white woman standing in front of the building!"
    "Damn. RETURN TO BASE! RETURN TO BASE!"
  12. MarvinTheMartian Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2002
    star 5
    "Look, it's Gordon from Big Brother!"
    "Abort, I repeat, abort!"
  13. TheOzhaggis Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2000
    star 5

    "No, Sir! I'M TAKING HIM OUT!!!"
  14. kahli Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 1, 2000
    star 5
    I was only using the whole 'god' thing as something that many people swear is for real and many others swear is not.

    Anyway...

    Who do you think is going to pay for this new Iraq? Did it ever occur to anyone that one of the reasons for protesting against the war is the cost to each and everyone of us?

    How are you going to feel, Marv, in a few more years when you are out there in the actual workforce being taxed up the wazoo to fund the rebuilding?

    That's where the money will come form. I for one think there are enough people in THIS country who need help from our government before they go committing YOUR taxes to help out some other tinpot country that can't take care of themselves.

    How can we afford to feed the world AND expect free healthcare and subsidised education?

    Take a little time to think of the bigger picture. I have nothing against taxes being used to help other countries. But I don't want to see us overcommitted.

    And how long do you think there'll be dancing in the streets of iraq when the troops are gone and they're fighting over scraps?
  15. TheOzhaggis Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2000
    star 5

    I believe about 200 australian companies have already made bids for contracts in the reconstruction process in Iraq ...


    War is always good business.

  16. MarvinTheMartian Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2002
    star 5
    Dictators: Where are they now????

    [image=http://money.cnn.com/2003/04/16/news/international/war_Saddams_Stash/rogues.gif]
  17. wedge3210 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 1999
    star 5
    "How are you going to feel, Marv, in a few more years when you are out there in the actual workforce being taxed up the wazoo to fund the rebuilding? "

    And here I was being dictated to on the news about how we were only going to go in for the Oil revenue and the companies that were going to evilly capitalise on the situation.

    If taxes are the only way to help these people, then by golly, let them starve!!! Under no circumstances should we be helping anyone worse off than us!!!
  18. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    Guys, jeez, can't someone tell me you're having an IR debate without me so I can come in, tell it how it is then go back to fighting people in the Senate? :_|

    I'm not saying that freeing people from oppression is a bad thing, but if that's what they're going to claim was their main aim in Iraq

    Aye, it's funny how they pushed the angle of disarmament and then suddenly it's Operation: Iraqi Freedom. [face_plain]

    But how does that explain NATO's action in Kosovo in 1999? There was nothing in it for no one by saving the Kosovars, who occupy a landlocked, mountainous region in the Balkans. (Which was in fact a violation of our precious 'International Law' by the way - it never went through the Security Council, because NATO knew that Russia would veto any action to help their Yugoslav allies)

    Actually, Marv, it didn't meet the criteria under Chapter VII to be a UN SC action; and the legal status of humanitarian intervention is uncertain at best. If Iain Brownlie and Richard Falk aren't entirely certain about what we should do, then you shouldn't be. But, to assume it was altruistic is perhaps a tad naive; you're supposed to be a realist, right?
    As for the law, one of the most advanced things lawmakers did was to create the general prohibition on force, Article 2(4). Your disdain for the law is based off what, BTW, Marv?

    What about Panama in 1989?

    What, shutting down the US' biggest drug conduit, when Noreiga's repression (dignity batallations, or dingbats) and drug smuggling became too much even for the US?

    If taxes are the only way to help these people, then by golly, let them starve!!! Under no circumstances should we be helping anyone worse off than us!!!

    Unfortunately, we live in a world where people are by and large poor. And democracy isn't the majority form of government. So this talk of people starving rings somewhat hollow when we have to accept that over 1 billion people live on less than US$1 per day. I'm sorry, guys, I thought we Aussies were cynical enough to see through this crap. There was never one whit of concern about a single Iraqi's well being in the mind (that dank, hollow cavern) of George W Bush. You forget which nation is the undisputed king of redundant sanctioning; the USA (Ask Cubans if you don't believe me). Sure, in getting rid of those Ba'ath scum we did them a favour. But don't get sucked up in this BS propaganda about how f****** nice we are and how evil they are. It's a lie. We did it for our own reasons, which is 99% based around sending a message to Islamic extremists - "Here's your fireworks show; attack us again and you'll get a closer look. Geddit?"

    Seeing the cheering Iraqis was a good thing; but nobody highlighted the Arabs protesting. Arabs never, ever protest, not even against Israel. Guys, I'm pro-war but with reservations; the blatant illegality of it being the largest one I have. I do not, for one minute, think that this will have overwhelmingly positive effects for us; nor do I think democracy is ours to give. It must be the Arabs who chose that path. I also wonder why the hell George HW Bush is letting his idiot son go ahead with this "democratic regimes aplenty" policy. We actively avoided democracy in the Middle East for a long time. We artifically created a bunch of states - no, seriously, look at the borders, they're all straight lines randomly joined together to be "state-like". Some French and English colonials drew a series of straight lines, at various angles, and made these people into nation states, ruled them, and were evicted to be replaced by different colonists who also wanted their oil but dressed in loud clothes and funded state repression. And we assume that democracy in this region will end our troubles? Yeah, I suppose it would - what do 200,000,000 people who speak the same language have in common, besides almost all the known oil reserves in the world and a good reason to resent Western interference in their lives? [face_plain]

    E_S
  19. MarvinTheMartian Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2002
    star 5
    No one like a smart-ass Ender Sai :p :p

    From now on, you shall have this name bestowed upon you: Ender_ShutTheHellUp!! :D [face_laugh] [face_laugh]
  20. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    //kicks MarvinTheMartian in the nuts

    E_S
  21. MarvinTheMartian Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2002
    star 5
    Oh my, so this is where my fear of castration comes from. (RE: dream thread)
  22. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    Possibly. But we did manage to disrupt the Senate for many, many hours once. Remember? [face_laugh]

    E_S
  23. kahli Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 1, 2000
    star 5
    are you STILL on about that?

    sheesh!
  24. MarvinTheMartian Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2002
    star 5
    Ender_Sai is still living in the past, it would seem. Which would explain his devtion for the UN I think! [face_laugh]
  25. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    Rich, coming from a self confessed conservative!!! :p

    E_S
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