Yoda a Hypocrite?

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by deadeye_jedi, Mar 28, 2005.

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  1. deadeye_jedi Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2005
    I would like to say that Yoda may well be a hypocrite. He said something like (going by memory) "If Dooku escapes, he will get more systems to rally to his cause". Then he allows Dooku to escape to save Obi Wan and Anakin.

    Now you consider what he told Luke in ESB, telling him to finish his training at the possible expense of losing his friends. This sounds like double standards to me.

    Obi Wan told Anakin in AOTC not to go after Padme when she fell out of the gunship because his priority was to stop Dooku, and im sure Yoda would've agreed with that (kinda like Jedi policy).

    Therefore Yoda should have by rights sacrificed Obi Wan and Anakin and continued to pursue Dooku, IMO.

    Any thoughts people?
  2. CharlieA Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 27, 2005
    Good point, perhaps Yoda felt that if Dooku wanted to escape at any point he could, as his ship's ramp was already lowered and ready for take-off. Yoda maybe felt that keeping Obi-Wan and Anakin alive would be better in the long-run for the Republic, as they may need their help in the impending Clone Wars, and made an exception of the policy.

    It's certainly an interesting possibility to think of, although it wouldn't make for such an exciting Ep.III.
  3. DarthyMarkyMark Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2003
    star 4
    ESB is a different situation. Luke's instincts - to be compassionate and help his friends - are correct, but his way of doing things is wrong. Luke wasn't trained enough, and wasn't ready, to go and face Vader and save his friends - he was too impatient, he should have finished his training, and he'd have been more help to them then. It's proved in the movie - Luke comes nowhere near rescuing his friends, and they actually have to save him!
  4. Chaotic_Serenity Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 2004
    star 4
    There was a thread some ways back regarding extra "tidbits" released about the AOTC, and in it was a suggestion that Yoda's actions at Geonosis may very well be the motivation for his words to Luke. Yoda is not a hypocrite for making mistake and then learning from it, trying to stop another from doing what he did wrong. A hypocrite would be a Yoda who told Luke not to go after them, then when Luke returned said, "Sorry, buddy, I can't finish your training because my old Padawan so and so has been captured by the empire and I have to go save him rather than finish you training."
  5. Darth_Lacerus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 2004
    star 1
    Since Attack of the Clones happened over 20 years prior to Yoda offering his words of warning to Luke I would chalk Yoda's new outlook on learning from his own mistakes.

    Or...you could consider the saving of Anakin and Obi Wan as "The Will of the Force".

    Had Yoda let them die Dooku would have not been able to rally more to his cause, but Sidious was still pulling the strings and would have found a way to keep the wheels in motion.

    Also, had Yoda let them die then Anakin would have never impregnated Padme, there would be no Luke or Leia. Obi Wan would not have sacrificed himself to help guide Luke from beyond and Luke would have never been able to defeat Vader.

    Now there would have been no Vader and ulitmately it was Vader who kills Sidious. So without Vader the will of the force would have never been fulfilled and the Empire would live on. Sidious did not need Vader to make the Empire....he would have recruited someone else.
  6. Qui-Gon-Jinn2 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2002
    star 4
    In addition to what other people have said, I think it also worth mentioning that Yoda had to make his choice in a split second, in the heat of the moment, while Luke at least had some time&distance to reconsider.


    But honestly, I just chalk it up to Yoda learning from his mistakes.
  7. aPPmaSTer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 23, 2004
    star 3
    I agree with Serenity on this one, Yoda made a dumb mistake and lots of lives were lost because of that mistake. However, he learns from it and makes sure not to allow anyone else to make the same mistake he did.

    Now what I noticed about Yoda in the prequels, and AOTC in particular, is that Yoda doesn't appear to be very "wise". I think a lot of his wisdom comes from his experiences during the clone wars. Mistakes that he makes, etc.
  8. Darth_Lacerus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 2004
    star 1
    aPP.....you hit the nail on the head.

    Wisdom comes from experience.
  9. Darth_Howell_III Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2002
    star 4

    Furthermore, Yoda understandably made the snap decision to save The Chosen One - a player compared to whom Dooku pales by comparison.
  10. Genrader Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2003
    star 3
    I agree with Howell here.

    I find it hard to believe Yoda isn't all that wise...he's 840 years old. There's a lot of stuff you're going to see in that amount of time, I'm pretty sure he's wised up.

    The fact that Obi-Wan is so strong and Anakin is believed to be the Chosen One is the main reason Yoda saved them...plus, Yoda may have seen that Dooku would have escaped regardless, so sacrificing Anakin and Obi-Wan would have been in vain.
  11. Absydian Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2004
    star 3
    The thing I never understood about that scene is why yoda didn't kill two birds with one stone.

    Take the fallign pillar and redirect it to Dooku's ship. Disabling him from taking off/escaping and saving obi one and anakin at the same time.
  12. michaelbacca Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2005
    star 1
    It sort of seemed for a second that when Yoda was keeping the pillar from crushing Anakin and Obi-Wan that he struggled a bit. I have thought since the first time I say the movie that since he lifted Luke's X-Wing so easily Yoda could have simply waved his hand in the direction of the pillar and knocked it aside. He is Yoda after all.

    Yoda also seems to have a keen sense of the future. Maybe he could also see that it wasn't in his destiny to kill Dooku, it was up to either Anakin or Obi-Wan. Yoda could tell that it was not their time to die, that they were destined for greater things than a crappy death at the hands of Count Dooku.
  13. Genrader Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2003
    star 3
    Yoda also seems to have a keen sense of the future. Maybe he could also see that it wasn't in his destiny to kill Dooku, it was up to either Anakin or Obi-Wan. Yoda could tell that it was not their time to die, that they were destined for greater things than a crappy death at the hands of Count Dooku.

    I agree with that completely, great thought.

    As for the arguement of why didn't Yoda just easily throw the pillar aside, remember how that scene with him and the X-Wing was somewhere close to a minute long? Plus he was in peace and relaxed, able to focus himself to move such a large object. Here he had to do it on the spur of the moment.
  14. Chaotic_Serenity Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 2004
    star 4
    And he was exhausted from his battle with Dooku. Despite his power within the Order, Yoda is getting old - and it really started to show by the end of the duel.

    I think appmaster makes a great point, too. Part of what makes Yoda wise is his willingness to learn from his mistakes. In nine hundred years, he has never allowed himself to become so close-minded that he can't see where he went wrong.
  15. Bacon164 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2005
    star 7
  16. Lord_Morningstar Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2005
    star 1
    Also, Yoda is, in the scene, if I recall correctly, next to Dooku's ship. He would have needed to swiftly pull the pillar back towards himself and over his shoulder to hit the ship; a difficult maneuver.
  17. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    Hm.... Yes, Yoda probably learned a lot from this experience. However painful it would've been, he "should" have let Obi-Wan and Anakin die.
    Or, he may be wise enough to see that stopping Dooku right then would in fact not have stopped the war from happening sooner or later.



    Yoda - he is green
    /LM
  18. KyleKatarn96 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2004
    star 4
    why dont you wait till the third movie comes out...i cant say it here..but theres a definite anwser to your question..if you want me to i'll PM you it
  19. morgue Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2002
    star 1
    Sidious did not need Vader to make the Empire....he would have recruited someone else.

    I think you've got to wait for ep3 to make a call on that one, but I highly doubt he would have made it without Vader...

    ObiWan on A New Hope: "Vader... helped the empire hunt down and destroy the jedi knights"

    He helped the empire that means the empire had been created already but on the ep3 trailer Palpatine says "I need your help son", so he does needs Vader, then again, let's wait for the whole movie :)

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    Take the fallign pillar and redirect it to Dooku's ship. Disabling him from taking off/escaping and saving obi one and anakin at the same time.

    Yes I thought that after watching Clone Wars cartoons on which Yoda takes 2 battleships and crashes them together just by using the force... But I'd say he provably was tired from the fight with Dooku I mean rocks, lightning, lightsaber duel and then a pillar.

    ==================================================

    Another thing I've thinking is that Yoda will (on ep3) understimate the powers of the emperor and that's why he told Luke not to do that.

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    why dont you wait till the third movie comes out...i cant say it here..but theres a definite anwser to your question..if you want me to i'll PM you it

    Don't PM now but when the movie comes one if I don't find the answer to this thread I'll PM you :)

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