ST Yoda and Obi-Wan Had it Right...

Just some food for thought, for fun..

Yoda and old Ben Kenobi had it right all along. They knew that a new Dark Side Force like Snoke and Ren would arise in the future. They also knew that the Death Star 1 & 2 were the lesser of evils, compared with the Starkiller weapon (since the Death Star can only destroy a planet and not an entire system).

Basically by trying to defeat the Empire in the previous SW movies, they would be rolling out the red carpet for this new greater power in the First Order.

That's why they decided to chill all those years and spend the days sleeping and relaxing on remote planets just enjoying life in obscurity.

Yoda developed a great sense of humor and enjoyment of food on Dagobah. Obi-Wan became known as this weird old dude that hangs around Tatooine.

That must also be why they disagreed with Luke about Vader and didn't believe in saving him - because they knew the chosen one prophecy must be meaningless, because everything would be unbalanced again right away after.

Luke and R2 are upset now in TFA because they realize all that effort in the previous 6 movies was pointless because a greater power was waiting.

(I'm being a bit facetious here, but I do think some things in TFA raise legitimate questions about the purpose of events in the previous movies - and would love to hear alternative explanations about why the things in those movies still matter!)

 

I kinda like that theory. But more than that, your avatar creeps me out, in a good way.

 

Maz Kanata deftly explains in the movie why the fight continues.

The struggle between the Dark Side and the Light will never end. It's a metaphor for real life as well.

 

Well, quite. I think what the OP means though is that Obi Wan and Yoda acknowledged this, and knew destroying the Empire wouldn't eradicate the darkness - maybe they thought the Empire in its then-current form was better than whatever might replace it. As far as I know, Palpie wasn't actively menacing anyone once the Republic was swept away, he was just the head honcho.

After all, once Palpie had his throne, he just kind of stagnated behind the scenes. It could be argued that without the Rebellion, the Death Star might not have been built anyway.

 

It's also a message that freedom has to be fought for. The next generation has to step up to ensure our values are maintained. Those who sit around and take things for granted will be walked over. Always.

 

And it was one of the most stupid lines in the film... followed by "That is a story for another time". Gosh, Maz really was a terrible character.

 

I think we need to learn about Snoke/Ren/KoR belief system, especially since GL claims that Anakin was the chosen one in that his life led to the end of the Sith. We need to know more about the Sith's sucessors before we can fully assess such a legacy.

 

I'm sympathetic, but this is supposed to be a history of the GFFA. They had 30 years of relative peace, now something else is happening. Things change. The wars fought after WWII didn't make the events of WWII not matter.

 

Just a thought--and clearly this wasn't the line's meaning when it was originally said, but knowing what we know now:
When Obi-Wan says: that boy is our last hope and Yoda says: no, there is another…
In TESB, that line was a reference to Luke's sister (at that time, it wasn't Leia). In ROTJ, it became Leia. But changing it retrospectively, it could refer to Rey.

 

I've been wondering that also, Yoda could now be referring to a vision he had of the future involving Rey. It's a retcon I could get behind.

 

Oh my.

 

The Death Star is like a semi-auto rifle. One shot per target. Starkiller is like a shotgun and can hit multiple targets with one shot. Just because the DS has to take aim and shoot each target individually doesn't make it any lesser evil.

 

The Chosen One prophecy did not exist at the time of the OT, so they were not thinking along those lines.

Both encouraged Luke to confront Vader and were proponents of the rebellion. Yoda encouraged Luke not to be hasty, because he was in danger of falling to the Dark Side if he confronted the evils of Vader without being prepared.

Truthfully, the OT was designed to see the Empire fallen and the galaxy restored to peace. That is what we were supposed to take away from it.

This new movie is a little lazy in reusing the old Empire-rebellion plot, and thus basically negating the importance of the OT. What else could they have done? I don't know.

I wonder, since the Starkiller base was destroyed, are we going to see a New Order (First Order, what's it called?) that is now in hiding? Did the resistance come out on top here, with finding Luke being a big cherry on top? That would be pretty cool. I know the Republic was destroyed, but I don't know who they are or what importance they had to the resistance. Why is the resistance not the Republic? I don't understand.

I wanted a lot more about establishing a new Jedi order, and I hope the next movies become more about that somehow. Ren and Rey are the most interesting characters, and have the most new stuff to offer the saga.

 

Think of all the lives and worlds saved thanks to the destruction of the Death Stars. I don't think that could in any way be considered unimportant.

 

Sure, but who do you shoot first? And if you're the Rebellion, you're basically shooting with a slingshot against a gun. You've got 1 shot to get lucky.

The analogy is that Yoda and Obi-Wan figure if you use your 1 shot to take out the guy with the shotgun, the semi-auto rifle will just take its place and make a mess of everyone in the way. The guy with the shotgun is actually keeping the guy with the semi-auto from firing. So you let 3 people die to save 100.

I'm kind of assuming that Snoke has been around a long time here (I think Andy Serkis said he's ancient?).

 

Except that it wasn't stupid at all, and it's true BTW. And she was a pretty cool character, wish we'd seen more of her.

 

I liked Maz too. As for the topic at hand, the Empire was one representation of evil in the galaxy, eradicating it was good but it didn't end the fact that people would still thrive for the same goals Palpatine did.

 

The Rebel Alliance should've hung up a "Mission Accomplished" banner on Endor just to complete the metaphor...

And if ROTJ came out in 2003 instead of 1983.

 

The first order isn't as powerful as the empire they are only remnants of Palpatines dynasty. The playing field is more Balanced than it was in the Original Trilogy that is why the New Republic doesn't hide the fact it is supporting the Resistance. The stakes have been lowered greatly.

 

Not true. They started construction on the Death Star before the rebellion even formed. We saw that at the end of ROTS. The purpose of the Death Star was to spread fear, so they could eliminate the Senate and control things with a more stern hand at the local level with the Governors.

 

I see where you're coming from, but let's not build Ren and Snoke up to be more than they are shown to be.

Starkiller aside, the First Order has a long way to go before it can be considered greater than the Empire.

Snoke has a long way to go before he can be considered a greater threat than the Emperor.

Ren... well, Ren killed Han Solo. Then he ran around bleeding in the woods like a lunatic and got beat up by a girl noob.

They've all got some things to prove.

 

From a certain point of view saving Han and Leia in the OT did lead to the rise of Kylo Ren and the fall of the Jedi temple. Luke refused to believe the future foretold from the force vision until the Jedi Killer revealed himself, and may have also procreated unlike Old Ben and Yoda. Ep8 is going to be one hell of a show

 

Ohhh yeah, I forgot about that! Been a while since I watched Revenge.


But still, maybe Yoda and Obi thought the status quo was crap, but better than something which might replace it?