Yoda and the dark side

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by StampidHD280pro, Jun 10, 2010.

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  1. StampidHD280pro Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2005
    star 4
    In the prequels, Yoda is shown to have the ability to "catch" Darth Tyrannus's Sith lightening. Mace Windu, who is supposed to be skilled in the dark arts, does not attempt this when confronting Palpatine.

    One of the popular theories behind the Palpatine/Sidious face-change was that Sidious was ancient and actually knew how to keep himself alive through the dark side, and that he used a "force-mask" to hide his true appearance which has been ravaged by the dark side itself. Or something like that. Given that Yoda is no doubt ancient and wrinkly, and that he looks just as much like a demon or gargoyle as he does a man, is Yoda supposed to be a former Sith? Could Yoda be a former human? I'm not a fan of the force-mask theory, but the fact that Yoda has no species seems to suggest there's a big secret behind his origins. The character of Yaddle complicates this line of thought, but doesn't derail it completely.

    I want to hear other peoples thoughts on Yoda's unique character, and hopefully a serious discussion about the dark side of the force as it is presented in the saga.
  2. Slowburn Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2010
    star 4
    Each Jedi has different powers. Because Yoda can do one thing doesn't many every other Jedi can. Each maneuver takes a lot of time and practice, and most Jedi can just master a few major tricks like that in their lifetime. Given Yoda's age being nine times longer than that of a human, he's just had more time to master the little things like this.

    I heard something somewhere, and I'm not sure where or how accurate this is, that Sidious is around 400-years-old. He was human, but the Dark Side has been known to keep people alive much longer than they're meant to. Deep residence, even in younger people, in the Dark Side also make people change physically, such as the yellowing of the eyes and the degrading of the complexion/texture of the skin. If it is true that Sidious is 400-years-old, that would explain the combination. The Dark Side would be keeping him alive in this case. I do think he used a "force mask" of sorts to hide his true age and to make people believe that he is only middle aged.

    No, Yoda is not a former Sith. While the Sith have been around since they officially became extinct a thousand years before "Menace", Yoda is not old enough to be one. Yoda is not a former human either. He is a different species clearly, but you're right that there is meant to be a huge uncertainty about his origins, but that could mean a million different things apart from just having Sith roots. Perhaps they're a very tribal species on an uncharted planet and his people don't want to be found, and if that is true than perhaps Yoda is doing his own thing but still has respect for his own culture. But yeah, it doesn't make a lot of sense for Yoda to be questioned as a former Sith. I don't think his allegiances are in line to be questioned at any point in his life.

    There were others of Yoda's Species, as it is usually referred to with no other official name; Minch and Vandar Tokare were both Jedi in the Old Republic, which suggests that his species has been around for far more than 2,000 years. They could be mythical on some worlds, such as the Angels on Iego (who were later proven to be an actual species). I think his people have been around since the ancient times, and I will stick to the theory that his people live on an uncharted world and they just don't want to be found.
  3. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Minch may have been Yoder himself. Minch was apparently an early name for Yoder in the TESB rough draft.
  4. Chance the Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 25, 2005
    star 5
    Yoda was definitely not a former Sith or former human being. There was a Jedi Council member named: Yaddle, and she was the same species type as Yoda.
  5. StampidHD280pro Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2005
    star 4
    Why is the species never named?
  6. Topher1980 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2010
    Not everything is named. It is not important to the story, hence George did not feel the need to name it
  7. YYZ-2112 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2004
    star 4
    I've often wondered if Yoda and Yaddle are actually Whills.
    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Journal_Of_The_Whills



    Even though Lucas abandoned the 'Journal of the Whills' as a plot device, the opening crawls still suggest that someone else is telling us the story from far in the future of the legendary events surrounding the Skywalkers and their turbulent times in the galaxy. The words don't feel like a direct translation from R2-D2 so someone else must have translated it from Artoo's data banks. And really, the opening crawl of each film suggests that the story is actually being relayed to us in a text format; like an ancient long forget scroll or tablet. The visual representations of the films is sort of intended to be our interpretation of the information when formulated into our natural imagination. Basically what happens when reading a book.

    The whole thing makes me think that whoever wrote the tale has been long dead and perhaps belongs to a species long extinct. The ruins of their civilization might have been discovered by explorers and archaeologists. The story of the Skywalkers may be one of those discoveries. This sort of supports the concept of Star Wars as a myth, after The Power of Myth by Joseph Campbell; much of the inspiration for Lucas' Star Wars.

    Then again the Whills could be the Voss; the peaceful inhabitants of the planet by the same name. They may even be the mystics who foretold of one who would bring balance to the force. It's all speculation but I often wonder if the idea behind Yoda was inspired partly by the idea of what Lucas imagined the Whill shamans to be like.

    As far as the age of Darth Sidious is concerned; it has neither been confirmed nor denied his exact age and given some of the EU material such as the upcoming Star Wars massively multiplayer online role playing game; The Old Republic; anything is possible with respect to Sidious.
  8. Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn The Other Saga Moderator

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    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 1999
    star 6
    It's a common hypothesis, and one which makes a certain amount of sense... but unfortunately, Lucas has denied that Yoda is a Whill. Moreover, in ROTS, Qui-Gon was to explain that he learned the secret to Force-ghosting from a Whill shaman - which would create some incongruity with him teaching Yoda to become a ghost, if Yoda was a Whill.

    So, I like the idea, it was always a fave... but it's also been dismissed by the creator.
  9. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    Palpatine was born in 82 BBY, meaning he is 50 in TPM, 60 in AOTC and 63 in ROTS. He was not using a Force mask; his change in appearance was due to the physical damage from being hit by his own reflected lightning at close range.
  10. oierem Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2009
    star 3
    That's not what the movies tell us. It is ambiguous, at best.

    I guess it depends on the person, but I don't consider anything canon outside the 6 movies.
  11. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    Which means that Palpatine is not 400, but rather he is a late middle-aged man who has Force powers and happens to be evil.
  12. oierem Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2009
    star 3
    Until he is transformed into a deformed monster ;)
  13. Sith-Spitter01 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2010
    star 3
    Wasn't there a story in(that was possibly Infinities) eats a worm from a Sith Holocron that turns him into his Palpatine persona?
  14. sarlaccsaurs-rex Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2007
    star 3
    Ugh!!! I knew someone was going to pull that off of Wookiepedia and ruin the fun for everyone. There is no fun or mystery in a normal elderly man.:rolleyes: For all I care palpy is at least 3,000 years old. When KOTOR first came out I thought that it was going to be based on Sidious/Palpatine's early life.
  15. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    The official explanation is more, well, official than random speculation by random fans. So it's better to go by the official explanation.
  16. oierem Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2009
    star 3
    Random speculation? If something is not clearly stated in the movie, it is left to interpretation. That's how a movie works. And that's how it works for anyone who's not a fan searching for "official" explanations.

  17. d_arblay Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2005
    star 4
    Amusingly enough, when I was about 6 or 7 and I watched ROTJ, I naturally assumed that Yoda was human and that given he reveals he is 900 years old, I just took it to be that this is what a human would look like were they actually able to live so long. But no, I think Yoda is clearly a different species with a much different life expectancy. Perhaps the expectancy is more around the 800 year mark and Yoda is living far longer than assumed for those of his kind. But not to such a massive degree one might think he was human. I think in ROTJ he refers to himself as "old and weak" which means he just physically couldn't last any longer, even if he tried.
  18. mjerome3 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2000
    star 6
    Yoda has had more time to live, and in turn has had more time to master the Force. I read a novel where it states that very few Jedi Masters have learned from the Jedi archives lessons about the dark side of the Force. Perhaps Mace Windu and Yoda both did know how to counter attack Sith lightning.

    Yoda told Luke that he was 900 years old, and also told Luke that he taught Jedi for 800 of those 900 years which means that after being trained in the ways of the Force himself, Yoda naturally grew in his knowledge of the Force through experience and having lived so long, knew just about everything there was to know about the Force- even the dark side- which he never wielded.
  19. StampidHD280pro Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2005
    star 4
    Um, Sy Snoodles has a name and a species. Almost everything is named and specified in Star Wars. Leaving Yoda and Yaddle's species unidentified seems suspiciously intentional.
  20. Chance the Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 25, 2005
    star 5
    No, there are a bunch of things unnamed.

    Trust me, you just can't think of them right now because they aren't of any importance.:p

    There was an entire thread just about unnamed characters.
  21. Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn The Other Saga Moderator

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    Sep 23, 1999
    star 6
    It appears intentional because it is. Lucas always just describes Yoda as "a frog." Gotta leave some room for mystery I guess.
  22. dewback_rancher Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2009
    star 4
    Yoda's species remaining unnamed almost makes him the Tom Bombadil of Star Wars: an element put in to provide a sense of mystery when so much else is explained away all logically. Only, Yoda is a lot more prominent in the story than Bombadil was in Lord of the Rings... but the comparison still stands. [face_peace]
  23. EHT Manager: New Films

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2007
    star 6
    The non-revealing of Yoda's species (and apparently Yaddle too) always struck me as kind of funny. What would we really get out of knowing the name of it anyway? It would just be some random word. Are we all better for knowing that Watto was a Toydarian (named in the movie) or that Greedo was a Rodian (not named in the movie, but still known)? The only plus I can see is that it prevents that species from being mentioned / used extensively in the EU... so maybe it is a good thing after all. :p
  24. JediMaster1511 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2010
    star 9
    Yoda can catch Palpatine's and Dooku's force lightning because he is a Jedi Consular, and his focus as a Jedi is on the Force. So he would have a greater understanding of the Force and know how to deflect the lightning. It is similair to how Vader deflects Han's blaster fire. So it is not because he was a Sith. He is not the only Jedi who can deflect lightning with his hands.
  25. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Apparently "it is what he always looked like":
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