CT Yoda Change Needed

Says who? It's not up to the fans to decide what needs to happen or not.

 

How would a CG Yoda be better in Empire and Jedi? It's not like he's doing anything that requires him to be leaping around Dagobah like a coked-up squirrel.

 

Give me one good reason that they needed to happen.

 

Um, Dooku was about to kill Anakin and Obi-Wan, and Sidious was about to start an Empire ruled by Sith Lords unopposed.

 

He still never needed to pull out a lightsaber, though. He could have just used the force.

 

Still not getting why people ever thought he was a pacifist.

I know definitions of pacifism can vary, but... In ESB he was established as an outer space kung fu master who worked for the space government to maintain order, who trainined children how to kill using laser swords. Violent lethal defence is not pacifism!

 

Yoda is a prominent member of the Jedi Council and is situated right in the middle of all these goings-on. If he spent the entire PT without ever actually engaging in any combat, it would be very weak. I know all his phrases from E5 about "knowledge and defense" but I think we can just consider Yoda's actions in line with the "Just War Theory."

As for him engaging in some sort of non-lightsaber combat, he starts his encounter with Tyranus along those lines, but it really would have been weaksauce if that's all they did. I like the idea of Yoda being the top Jedi and Sidious being the top Sith, but it would be silly if each character was so obscenely powerful as to not need weaponry of any sort.

 

No, he was not. Dooku put away his sword, looked tired, remorseful if not a bit sad and was about to leave when Yoda showed up. Just watch that part of the film again if you don't believe it.

Besides, what reason would he even have to kill them anyway? The point of the duel for Dooku was to beat them back and get the hell out of there. Escape was his plan. If he really was intent on killing them, he would have done so. And remember, they tried stopping him not the other way around.

 

Even Dooku wasn't going to actually kill them, Yoda believed he was. He had no idea that Dooku wanted Obi-Wan on his side and Sidious wanted Anakin.

 

Luke called Yoda a great warrior, No?

 

To which Yoda himself replied "Oooooh! Great warrior. Wars not make one great. Hee hee hee hee hee."

 

You beat me to it. I will also add that Yoda being a "warrior" was Luke's assumption.

 

Yoda could have learnt from the prequels and become a pacifist by the time of EpV.
That's the way I interpret that plot point in the saga as it is.

But I do think it could have been otherwise. Yoda's duel with Dooku was not necessary at all to me, and quite ridiculous.
I tend to like the duel with Sidious much more. Their face off in the senate rotunda is one of the good fight scènes of the saga.

Having Yoda, a pacifist, go out to fight sidious and realize that one cannot destroy the other and that he'll have to retreat and work differently to find a solution is great. Violence was not the way to defeat the Sith, au contraire ! Yoda doesn't know it but the solution will be the Luke/Vader Relationship in Ep v and vi, which is great.

That works better if it's the only time yoda fights. He shows his power, but also his wisdom.

In the PT, we have Yoda spend all day at the office on Coruscant, uttering backwards cheap philosophy, fighting armies of droids for the gouvernment and going mad against a rather secondary character, Dooku, who ends up not being really important to the story, except that he is a transitionnal apprentice for Sidious. Nothing. If he was not played by Chris Lee, well, he would be forgotten.
That's what I call a waste. Yoda jumping around to fight the most ridiculous and incompetent vilains ever seen in an action movie (battledroids) is a mistake.

As for replacing OT yoda, I'm against the idea ! Violently against the ... 'idea' !!!
The puppet is touching. Puppets have a power of their own : once they start acting, they exist. We relate to them : Elmo, Kermit, Dark Crystal bestiary, Peggy, ...
Yoda is a well crafted puppet and he is touching. Not quite so in the PT (a far cry, character- wise from LOTR's gollum).
OT yoda doesn't need any change.

Probably a matter of personal opinion but I never thought OT Yoda, or Jabba, or Salacious Crumb looked fake. When I watch TPM and AOTC on Bluray, everything and everyone looks fake. Gungans, Yoda, Dexter Gester (sp ??), Clones, etc ... The celebration on Naboo in TPM is just a big clumsy animatic !!
The new Yoda in TPM is the best sw CGI character to date (except maybe grievous which worked fine) but he doesn"t feel as real and alive as Puppet Yoda.

Someone mentionned 'Just War Theory'. Well, there have been unavoidable wars in history, but none were a light hearted, happy triumph.
Might I add that in the last décades, 'Just War Theory' has been a joke. A sad and cruel joke. I do not need to see heroic-fantasy wizzards call for the use of violence, just or not ! !!!

 

The circumstances in the movies speak for themselves. Dooku was about to escape (and was the one who started the duel), and Sidious needed to be defeated (and was also the one who started the duel).

He didn't deny he was a (great) warrior.

Although I agree that puppet Yoda is fine as it is, I'd say CG characters have that same power. Suspension of disbelief is required for both since the audience subconsciously acknowledges how they are made and just go with it.

 

Lucas didn't make the change in the OT, because he was content with the puppet. He only changed the TPM puppet because he agreed that the puppet was too different in design and after having ILM test out the old footage with CGI Yoda, opted to switch that for consistency's sake. TPM Yoda didn't do much either, but it was still changed officially in 2011.

Sure, as long as you give me one good reason other than you disliked Yoda's fighting style and that it went against Lucas in the 80's. As to my reasons....

-Yoda was a Jedi during the prime of the Jedi Order. He would have learned Lightsaber combat just like all the other Jedi.

-Yoda's response about judging one by their size isn't affected at all. In fact, it illustrates how he could compensate for that.

-It showed how even as powerful a Jedi as Yoda was, the Sith were still able to hold their own against him.

-It gives us good reason as to why Yoda didn't take out the Sith and had to go into hiding.

-Yoda only fights when he needs to, not when he has to. He's still the one who teaches more about mastery of the Force, than he does gallivanting around with his Lightsaber. Saving it for when it was necessary.

He did use the Force. He moved the various objects sent his out in another direction. He deflected the first blast of lightning back at Dooku, then took it and held it in his hand, as he used the Force to extinguish it. He drew his Lightsaber as a last resort, after Dooku drew his.

DOOKU: "It is obvious this contest will not be decided by our knowledge of the Force, but by our skills with a Lightsaber."

Later on, Yoda relies on both the Force and his Lightsaber skills against Sidious. He Force shoves Sidious against the wall. Then they both use their Lightsabers to fight. Even after knocking Palpatine's saber away, he has to switch back and forth. He uses the Force to duck and dodge the Senate pods and even catch one pod and redirect it back up at him. He loses his saber and uses the Force to block Palpatine's lightning until he creates the feedback look that sends them both flying.

Knowledge and defense doesn't mean not using the Force to engage in combat. Otherwise, he wouldn't have trained Jedi for eight hundred years, to use the Force to be the guardians of peace and justice. It is all about how one uses the Force when they have to.

-In ANH, Obi-wan avoids drawing his Lightsaber until Ponda Baba and Dr. Evanzian draw their blasters to shoot him and Luke. He tried peaceful negotiation and when that failed, he whipped ass. Before that, he used the Force to scare the Tuskens. He didn't use his Lightsaber to fight his way to the control room and avoids using it until he is confronted by Vader.

-In TESB, Luke carries a blaster but never pulls the trigger once. When he uses his Lightsaber, it goes both ways. The first time is to free himself and defend against the Wampa. The next time, he uses it to bring down another AT-AT. On Dagobah, he ignites first against the vision of Vader because of his negative emotions against the man that slew his father and his mentor. On Cloud City, Luke initiates the fight against Vader and Vader keeps pointing out how Luke's emotions are key to destroying him. Which is the path to the dark side. Meaning that Luke was screwing up the whole time.

-In ROTJ, Luke uses negotiation for the most part against Jabba, even knowing that Jabba probably wouldn't go for and arranged for things to be taken out to the Pit of Garkoon. There, Luke uses his Lightsaber as a last resort, doing what his father called "aggressive negotiations". On Endor, he only uses his Lightsaber as a last resort against the Scout Trooper. He never once fires his Speeder Bike's blasters. On the Death Star, he only attacks first when goaded into it. When he's fighting Vader on the stairs, it is defensively.

-In TPM, each time Obi-wan and Qui-gon use their sabers, they do so after an attack has launched, or to free someone else. In fact, Qui-gon let's Maul take a swing at him first, before he starts fighting and it is defensively, during their first fight. Obi-wan only truly fights aggressively when Qui-gon has been run through and Obi-wan loses it. But then he takes out Maul once he has let go of his anger and uses the Force as he was taught.

-In AOTC, for Obi-wan it is the same way. He either lets the attack happen first, or an attack has already happened. Anakin is the one who fights offensively for the most part in AOTC, which is fitting with his persona and his future destiny. Yoda lets Dooku attack him first, before he even makes his move.

-In ROTS, it is a different story. Obi-wan and Anakin don't use their blasters except in the most dire of situations. They defend themselves on their way to the General's quarters. In the duel, they do strike first, but given that Dooku has manhandled them both before, they don't take any chances. But Anakin is the more aggressive one here. Later, they both fight defensively after freeing themselves from their restraints. When Obi-wan fights Grievous, he waits for Grievous to come at him before he engages him. When he kills him, it is in defense of himself. He even avoids killing his former unit, when he leaves Utapau. Yoda only uses his Lightsaber after he's about to be attacked, while on Kashyyyk. The rest of the time, he relies on the Wookiees to help him out. We don't see the start of the fight at the Temple, but they were probably fired upon first. I already covered Yoda's conflict with Sidious. Obi-wan lets Anakin attack first, even though he draws and ignites first. Most of the time, Obi-wan is on the defensive during that fight. Mace and the Jedi Posse do arm themselves first, but it is Palpatine who strikes first.

Part of this is that there's a scene cut out. Dooku hears Yoda being attacked by the Battle Droids and thus puts his saber away when Yoda walks in. And his look isn't mournful, it is exhaustion. Anakin fought harder than he realized he could.

Luke is a novice in the ways of the Force and doesn't understand what a Jedi is all about. He's still looking for excitement and adventure. When Luke is first told part of the truth by Obi-wan, about who Anakin really was, Luke sounds both shocked and awed by the idea that his father was a warrior and not a navigator. He's even more surprised to realize that they had fought in the Clone Wars. It is only when Yoda lays into him about his piss poor attitude, that Luke starts to understand that there is more to being a Jedi than fighting in wars. That's the point of Yoda's speech. He's telling Luke that the Jedi did other things beyond fighting the Sith, the Empire and the Confederacy. And that to do so, required a level of maturity that he didn't think Luke was capable of right now. If ever. Because he was raised without knowledge of the Force, without a lifelong training in the Jedi Arts, he has a different view of the universe. The drawback of which is that view is the view of one who has no understanding of the larger issues at stake. He has to unlearn what he has learned about both the Force, and about life in general. This is why Luke is different in ROTJ, compared to ANH and TESB.

 

The statement also clearly show's Yoda's disapproval of battle.

 

Irrelevant. Soldiers and warriors may perfer not to battle, but doesn't mean they won't when necessary.

 

A warrior, by definition, actively engages in battle. Doesn't sound much like a person who openly dismisses himself as a warrior and repeatedly expresses his disapproval of aggressive conflict.

 

Does Yoda need a change? Nah. But Jabba? Hmmmmmmmm...............

 

Actually, of all the OT puppets and special effects, Jabba is the one I'm ok with.

Dat Salacious Crumb doh...

 

I always thought they missed a trick in the ANH special edition, instead of having a misshapen and undersized Jabba painted on, they could have had a droid or someone walking around holding a holo transceiver projecting a miniature Jabba.

 

But he didn't.

It wouldn't work. The scene was shot as a conversation/negotiation between two people face to face.

 

They didn't need to happen though, because they both ended in a force battle where the Dark Lord escapes. In fact, I'd rather have the Dooku duel be a force battle instead of a lightsaber duel (I did like the Sidious duel, though). But they didn't need to happen.

It's easier to connect with something that looks real though. I really don't care if a computer is teaching me about the force. It also makes it easier for the actors to act well.

 

When you first saw TESB, did you really expect 870-year-old Yoda to be doing backflips against Sith Lords during the Clone Wars?

 

Or even better, cut the scene out of the movie! (Triple Post, woops)