Yoda gave bad advice to Anakin in the Temple?

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by rebel777, May 21, 2005.

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  1. rebel777 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 2003
    star 1
    I watched ROTS a second time and I still believe it so. Yoda told Anakin to let go of those things his was afraid of losing (IE Padme). Subsequently he decided that he must embrace that which will therefore not allow her to die, so he was told by palp. To further my point though, WATCH the scene notice that Anakin is struggling over what Yoda just told him. Finally we hear Yoda say he has failed, failed in the duel, or failed over all?...thoughts
  2. G-FETT Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2001
    star 7
    Yoda basically told Anakin he had to let go of Padme and accept the inevitability of death. Death for her and death for all those he loves. If Anakin had followed Yoda's advice everything would have been fine.

    So, I don't agree with you. I think Yoda's advice was good, and where Anakin went wrong was in not following that advice.
  3. AnikaAnakin Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2003
    star 2
    I think Yoda's advice was bad and eventually caused Anakin to go to the dark side. I mean a few years ago i gad somebody very close to me whom I knew was going to die (from illness though), and if somebody woudl just say to me: "don't look for a cure, don't grief his death, just accept it and do nothing" I'd punch that person right in his face. no wonder that Anakin didn't think he would get anything from the jedi. Espacielly since he feel them not teaching him everything about the force, and he was right.
    In the end it showed that Yoda did know how to extend life in a way, but he just didn't feel like telling Anakin about it, but he sure was interested extending life for himself. Yoda didn't live up to his own advice, if he would he wouldn't have bothered learning to become aforce ghost. He would just accept that he would die.
  4. rebel777 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 2003
    star 1
    It just bugs me in all of Yoda's wisdom the way he spoke with Anakin. I think here we find Yoda flawed. Honestly, look part of his advice is good, but the main point did not help Anakin at all.
  5. StarDude Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2001
    star 5
    Yoda's advice is wrong. It goes back to the Jedi supressing emotion. They supress it while the Sith are overwhelmed by it. Other than Qui-Gon Jinn, and later Luke, there is no balance between it. You mustn't let go of love. Remember, love is what saved Anakin. In fact, doesn't Qui-Gon say in a deleted scene that "love is the answer to the darkness"? Qui-Gon was the wisest Jedi.
  6. G-FETT Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2001
    star 7
    Yoda doesn't say; Don't look for a cure. Don't grieve.

    He says that death is inevitable and in the end you have to be preppared to let go. And he is right. It's a tough lesson, but one we all have to learn. Ultimatly every single person in our lives and even ourseleves are going to die. Our bodies are programmed to self-destruct. The ultimate part of life is death. You have to accept these facts and move on and enjoy life and loved ones while you can.
  7. rebel777 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 2003
    star 1
    But, did anyone else notice in the scene that after Yoda spoke with Anakin he was troubled, not so much as he was already with everything going on/and emotions, but of what he must now do based on Yoda logic.
  8. Dingo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2001
    star 5
    It just bugs me in all of Yoda's wisdom the way he spoke with Anakin. I think here we find Yoda flawed. Honestly, look part of his advice is good, but the main point did not help Anakin at all.

    And that's the point, Yoda and all the Jedi were flawed with their teachings, allowing stagnation in which helped the Sith to destroy them.
  9. DarthGroznii Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2005
    star 2
    Yoda's advice was well intentioned. But he should have realised that Anakin has a compulsion to save all those around him, and merely telling him he has to let things go wasn't really going to work.

    A better approach might have been to say, "If you try to hold on too tightly to those you love, you may end up losing them."

    But perhaps that would have been too ironic.
  10. DARTH_RAMA Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 14, 2005
    star 3
    No Yodas advice was the best advice for all jedi. A jedi must not be attached to anything that is why there should be no Sex life for jedi. B/c sex life is a attachmeant that cassues emotions. And what yoda was saying was right it was padmas destiney/Karma to die there was no way for her to live. That is why a jedi must be hummbel and no that everything that happens is destiney/Karma. Alot of the stuff Gorge Lucas puts into star wars is from Vedic philoshpy. I know i fallow the Vedic philoshphy and omost ever thing is from it.
  11. G-FETT Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2001
    star 7
    Wait a minute, there are many aspects of the Jedi that are falwed, but this is not one of them. The Jedi told Anakin how things ARE. Anakin was troubled because he got the advice he didn't want to hear - So, he went to Palpatine instead.

    He should have been wise enough to accept Yoda's advice and get on with enjoying Padme while he had the chance.
  12. dee_dee24m Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2003
    star 2
    I think it's fair to say he could have worded it better. Knowing that Anakin is volatile and has been troubled, saying "be happy for the people close to you who die" is a bit daft....

    But when Yoda says "Failed, i have" i think that shows he realises he was wrong. Not just in what he said/done over the years (or failed to do) but in how he said/did it.

    Man, so many f***** layers to this movie...i love it!
  13. rebel777 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 2003
    star 1
    It just seems that YOda could have been more personal, or even have said, I sense Padme is pregnant. Yoda can sense Jedi dying but not the "New Hopes". He just doesnt get Anakin. I am not siding with Anakin or his emotions, but saying that Yoda failed to understand Anakin on a personal level.
  14. slack_almighty Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2005
    It's not what Yoda says, it's how he says it. There seems to be this whole thing about letting go and accepting things. Which Anakin of course doesn't do. But then again it's not fair to say because Yoda said what he said, therefore Anakin makes the wrong decisions.
  15. hawk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2000
    star 5
    I think Yoda meant well and if he knew Padme was carrying Anakin's children, he wouldn't be so tough on him. Basically, his advice was the same he gave Luke. He told Luke to complete his training and let Han and Leia die - if it was their destiny. But Luke rebelled - like Anakin - but he avoided the darkside regardless. In other words, he took a risk but it didn't end in tears (well, literally I guess it did :)).

    I'm annoyed that the Jedi avoid attachments. I can see what Lucas is saying and I sort of think it's clever but I never got the feeling that Luke was taught in exactly the same way as Anakin. Perhaps, Yoda learnt something too. Oh, I'm rambling!
  16. Dingo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2001
    star 5
    Wait a minute, there are many aspects of the Jedi that are falwed, but this is not one of them.

    Accepting that death is inevitable, yes. But at the same time just because you have a vision that someone you love is going to die does not mean that you just have to accept that and leave it be, which is essentially what he was saying. Both Anakin and Luke did the same thing, and one turned out right because of the inner nature of Luke, the other didn't because of Anakin's inherent flaws. Fighting to help those that you love isn't a bad thing, if you are going to go about it the right way.

    That is where the flaw comes in with the Jedi in while there was the noblest of intentions, they ended up throwing out all forms of emotion, which isn't necessarily true, just making sure that it is all tempered.
  17. SLAVE2 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2000
    star 5
    I don't believe it was bad advice, its just not what Anakin wanted to hear and he couldn't handle that so went looking for another solution. Luke makes the same mistake and ignores Yoda's advice, which is pretty much the same advice he gives Anakin, in ESB, like father like son I guess.
  18. DARTH_RAMA Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 14, 2005
    star 3
    The reason why yoda said learn to let go of the ones you care for is becasue yoda knew she was going to die so he had to tell him learn to let go and be humbel.And let destiney/karma take its course.
  19. G-FETT Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2001
    star 7
    OK, but the point is, Anakin didn't take Yoda's advice to let fate take it's course. He went looking for the answer he wanted to hear from Palpatine and ended up CAUSING Padme's death. So, if he had just let things be, his dream probably wouldn't have come true and Padme wouldn't have died. Theres a VERY important message there.
  20. Darthfara Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 30, 2002
    star 3
    Yoda I think learns in ROTS that he hasd a lot to learn from Qui Gon, however what he did say to anakin was that fear of losing someone can tip you to the darkside. Lets face it Yoda was right. If anakin had tried to still do what was right, what he knew to be right, then he would not have turned and Padme would probably have survived.

    Thats the thin with Premonitions and prophecies, they have a nack of coming tru, just not how you expected them to. It was destined for anakin to do what he did, he was seeing the future for what it could become, remember only the Sith deal in absolutes.

    But granted I do believe the Yoda realises that the Jedi order must adapt, and learn to love and control their emotions, like all good human beings do, not supress them as they have been doing.

    Lets face it, even Sidious did not know how to save Padme, he told anakin that they could discover the secrets together, he just used it as a device, because he knew what advice the Jedi would have given to him.

    Yoda did fail, but he would get a second chance, which he took, and he became a much wiser Master by the time Luke came to be trained. He warned of the darkside more, but did not tell him to supress his emotions.

    In the end it was Lukes atachment to his fatehr and Anakins subsequesnt attachment to Luke that bvalanced the force.
  21. TH421 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 22, 2004
    star 2
    It was good advice. And it was the Jedi philosophy.

    But it was not what Anakin wanted to hear, so he rejected it. Instead, he took his problems to Palpatine, who offered him a way to have what he wanted... for a price. Of course, it was a lie, but it was what he wanted to hear, so he not only bought it, but he betrayed everything he had believed in - not to mention everything Padmé believed in.

    And of course, wound up cheated of his prize, when it was too late to take back what he had done.

    You can hardly blame that on Yoda's advice, which was perfectly true, and sound.
  22. rebel777 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 2003
    star 1
    Obviously Anakin would become Vader, but I think, as we see from TPM to ROTS the jedi are not able to use the force as well as they would like. And Yoda not being able to fully understand Anakin's emotinal pain just gives him the ol' Jedi words of wisdom. On a side not, I think had Qui Gon not died he woudl have understood Anakin best and been able to keep him on the side of good regardless, but there in lies the plot hole...
  23. thejazzman Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2005
    star 1
    First, I say that the advice is not the bad part. My real issue is that with the council mettling it bothers me that OBI WAN in NH is a defeated man with a large amount of guilt hanging on him. Yet, in these 1-3 I really don't see Kenobi really making that bad of decisions.

    Second, it seems to me that if he is the Chosen One, he should be surrounded by a legion of Jedis.

    Third, Yoda's real failure for me, is unwillingness to continue fighting Palpitine even if it means his death.

    Fourth, With Vader light years away, why don't Yoda and Kenobi take on Palpitine (and yes I hear the line about Kenobi not being powerful enough, but when all you got left is two strong Jedi, then all bets are off and you make a final stand), or go find Vader.

    Do I like Sith, yes. It just could have been a lot better.

    Finally, I live in San Antonio and too my knowledge we don't have a theater that shows the "true" cut. So much for Lucas carring about the fans.

  24. Dingo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2001
    star 5
    OK, but the point is, Anakin didn't take Yoda's advice to let fate take it's course. He went looking for the answer he wanted to hear from Palpatine and ended up CAUSING Padme's death. So, if he had just let things be, his dream probably wouldn't have come true and Padme wouldn't have died. Theres a VERY important message there.

    But, the outcome is because of how Anakin goes about preventing it from happening. I'm not saying that given how everything occurs in the end that Anakin doing exactly what he did was what he should have, or that that is Yoda's fault. But there is also nothing to state that it would not have occurred anyway if Anakin had not done anything since the entire reason that Padme died was because of Anakin's fall and I'm sure that there were many other ways that Palpatine could have helped that along.

    What I am saying is that Yoda telling him to essentially let go of all forms of emotion and attachment was wrong, and was the flaw with the Jedi. It's essentially the same thing that Qui-Gon was saying in TPM.
  25. thejazzman Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2005
    star 1
    One more look at the advice is that one must remember from ESB is that Yoda states "a jedi lets the force flow around him and guide him"

    This being said remember Yoda teaches but in the end leaves it up to faith and hope that things will ends as they should. Could he have hammered it home to Anakin? Yes. But Yoda in the end relies on the principal that the individual must choose.

    Don't forget the Sith control and will things to happen and would be contrary to what he beleives.

    And most improtantly, that great tragedies occur simply because the involved parties do not have in the forsight of seeing all that happens. In other words, no matter how great Yoda is, he is just as capable of making mistakes
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